Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#241

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57261]Please describe in [B]one sentence[/B], how to achieve Enlightenment with Raja yoga.[/QUOTE]

I just did. Shall I simplify?

  1. Sit comfortably and close your eyes
  2. Observe your mind dipassionately without identifying with any thoughts
  3. Maintain indefinitely

Maintain this single meditation for several days(Buddha did it for 40 days) and you will get somewhere. If you want to get to enlightenment, you will have to maintain it for a month at least.

You will find this next to impossible to do for the following reasons:

  1. Your body is not flexible and healthy enough to sit for this long in a single posture. After about 40-50 min you will start to experience physical pain, stiff joints, random aches. Later physical restlessness, tiredness, drowsiness.

  2. Your breath is not regular. Irregular breathing causes a poor flow of prana in the body and thus the mind does not get relaxed enough to enter meditation.

  3. Your senses remain onn. Everytime you receive a sense impression from the world such as a sound, a smell or a touch it will distract you. Until, you cannot reach the stage where you shut them off. You will remain in your ordinary baseline state of consciousness. A shift in consciousness is unmistakable.

  4. Your mind is not one pointed. Your mind is not trained to remain in a single focus, it is highly scattered and agitated. You will find it next to impossible in not idenfying with your thoughts and day dreaming. Thus your focus will not strongh enough to go deeper.

Respectively here are the solutions to overcoming these problems: asana training, pranayama training, antar mouna training(see "Did I achieive Pratyahara thread) and trataka training. Develop a training program where you do each exercise a day in addition to your daily meditations. It took Buddha about 10 years of training to get enlightenment. It will take you longer.

#242

[QUOTE=The Scales;57251]Your definition is incorrect.

You know Zero.

Please don’t come on here and give any advice. All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.

There is no merit in your actions because you are not in knowledge.

Shouldn’t you be playing nintendo instead of digging your hole deeper and deeper?[/QUOTE]

I donno Scales. I actually agree with his comment on the nature of meditation. Perhaps it aint sound so novel, but I acknowledge one thing that he has tasted a little bit of master wisdom. His words reflect that.

I think you tied to automatic rejection when it comes to Amir. Surya says he is pretentious and that his fraudulence is a foregone conclusion. And thus Surya has fallen into the fallacy of choosing a rival/enemy to sate his intellectual thirst. Since he has this very strict cirteria that one has to satisfy certain things that many Indian yogis did to attain enlightenment.

What is your excuse? Perhaps because the nature of his comments, the ‘i-know-how’ thing is bugging you? Yet it is possible that perhaps he has come to know how, although not entirely, altogether.

So what if he is 25 years old? I could show you a 13 year-old kid who is far more intelligent than Einstein…

P.s. this aint a defense of Amir. This is an effort to understand why your rejection is tied to automatic :wink:

#243

Seeker 33,

You know I actually feel sorry for you, that you cannot see the blatantly obvious parallels between what your Cult claims and all others. As well as the practices inherent in it.

Every Cult especially Eastern ones, claim - ours is the best way to get enlightenment or the ultimate way. I’ve met many Sahaja Yoga people they are NOT in general the happiest and most content people you could meet, they are not in general spiritually enlightened.

What is holding you back Seeker 33 in your spiritual progress is thinking you already have all the answers and have experienced enlightenment through Shri Mataji’s teachings. People in SY wouldn’t know it if enlightenment came up and hit them off the head.

SY techniques are specifically designed to give you ‘highs’ or as feeling of spiritual enlightenment, just as the teaching of Scientology are; though only the very naive confuse either with real enlightenment or spirituality.

[B]If Shri Mataji was the only one with all the answers and a direct incarnation of God - she failed miserably by having a tiny following and reaching so few people. [/B] [B][I]If she actually was the only incarnation in modern times and all she claimed, you not think it likely she would have attracted a bigger following? [/I][/B]

Her following was small because everyone knew she was not what she claimed, and most could not take her remotely seriously.

[B]Reasons why her following remained so small & few took her seriously : [/B]

http://www.sahajacult.com/photos/0003.htm

http://www.sahajacult.com/photos/0007.htm

#244

[QUOTE=High Wolf;57291][B]I donno Scales.[/B] I actually agree with his comment on the nature of meditation. Perhaps it aint sound so novel, but I acknowledge one thing that he has tasted a little bit of master wisdom. His words reflect that.

I think you tied to automatic rejection when it comes to Amir. Surya says he is pretentious and that his fraudulence is a foregone conclusion. And thus Surya has fallen into the fallacy of choosing a rival/enemy to sate his intellectual thirst. Since he has this very strict cirteria that one has to satisfy certain things that many Indian yogis did to attain enlightenment.

What is your excuse? Perhaps because the nature of his comments, the ‘i-know-how’ thing is bugging you? Yet it is possible that perhaps he has come to know how, although not entirely, altogether.

So what if he is 25 years old? I could show you a 13 year-old kid who is far more intelligent than Einstein…

P.s. this aint a defense of Amir. This is an effort to understand why your rejection is tied to automatic ;)[/QUOTE]

Thats it.

The bold.

I do know.

#245

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57269]I just did. Shall I simplify?

  1. Sit comfortably and close your eyes
  2. Observe your mind dipassionately without identifying with any thoughts
  3. Maintain indefinitely

Maintain this single meditation for several days(Buddha did it for 40 days) and you will get somewhere. If you want to get to enlightenment, you will have to maintain it for a month at least. .[/QUOTE]Looks like that I was not clear enough. Please give me the clear definition about the way leading to Enlightenment, according Raja and Kriya yoga.
?you will get somewhere?
Is this what Raja and Kriya yoga are promising to their followers.

#246

[QUOTE=MindNinja;57292][B]If Shri Mataji was the only one with all the answers and a direct incarnation of God - she failed miserably by having a tiny following and reaching so few people. [/B] [B][I]If she actually was the only incarnation in modern times and all she claimed, you not think it likely she would have attracted a bigger following? [/I][/B][/QUOTE]Dear, these are you human ideas about incarnations. The reality is something different. Look in the past and see what happened with the teachings of all messengers of God.

Everything gets spoiled from us.
If you are connected you will know who is Shri Mataji.
But those who are realized know about me very well.

#247

Please give me the clear definition about the way leading to Enlightenment, according Raja and Kriya yoga.
“you will get somewhere”
Is this what Raja and Kriya yoga are promising to their followers.

Seeker, everybody here knows you do not sincerely want to know about other paths. Rather you want to compare them to SY and then tell us they are inferior to SY because SY gives you self-realization straight away. How do you know? When you put your hands above your head you felt a cool breeze. There you go, your definition of enlightenment is feeling a cool breeze over your head.

The definition of enlightenment in Raja yoga is achieiving a state of full discrimination between purusha and prakriti thereby purusha realising its own nature and gaining full mastery over prakriti. This is also said as dissolving all the modifications of consciousness since the very beginning of time. It is also said as achieiving objectless samadhi, the final union with the ultimate self, where only the ultimate self remains. It is unmistakable when you have got to this stage, because you will have godly powers.

Compare: Becoming god-like and having godly powers vs feeling a cool breeze. over your head :wink:

#248

Seeker have you not read the Yoga Sutras?

Which - as far as I know - is a terse treatise on the yogic system dealing with 8 parts: Yam/Niyama, Asana thru to Samadhi.

Patanjali writes there are two categories of samadhis or ‘meditations’

the samadhi without an object

the samadhi with an object

Yes?

Samadhi without an object as I understand it leads to “liberation.”

Samadhi with an object is a tool of the yogin.

Ok?

Hatha supports Raja. Raja is yoga Proper. When the yogin is in the postion of Raja? What can he not do?

The “path” of Raja is the eight limbs of ‘classic yoga’

Yam/niyam thru to samadhi.

“Kriya” is - as I understand it - is “action” or “working towards the positoin of Raja”

Mmmmm Kay?

The yogi to be - uses the 8 limbs to work towards being able to do the samadhis with and without seed.

I believe it is the guru who elaborates on the practices that comprises the 8 limbs. Suitable for the student.

#249

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57392]Seeker, everybody here knows you do not sincerely want to know about other paths. Rather you want to compare them to SY and then tell us they are inferior to SY because SY gives you self-realization straight away. How do you know? When you put your hands above your head you felt a cool breeze. [B]There you go, your definition of enlightenment is feeling a cool breeze over your head.[/B][/QUOTE]Yoga means ??union, connection?. Connection between us and this All Pervading power will happen at Sahahasra point.
Patanjali spoke about chakras, but he didn?t about Kundalini. May be we were not ready about this. [B]Now is the time.[/B]

Only feeling the connection is not and of the story. The problem is that other ?yogas? can?t?reach even this state. [B]What about Kaivalya.[/B]

#250

[QUOTE=The Scales;57398]Seeker have you not read the Yoga Sutras?
Which - as far as I know - is a terse treatise on the yogic system dealing with 8 parts: Yam/Niyama, Asana thru to Samadhi.
Patanjali writes there are two categories of samadhis or 'meditations’
the samadhi without an object
the samadhi with an object
Yes?[/QUOTE]This story, about Samadhi with object contradicts with statement in Sanhky Karika that: [B]Enlightenment is full discrimination between Purusha and Prakriti.[/B] Don?t forget this.

Astanga was needed because Sahahasra was not open. On 5 May 1970 Shri Mataji has opened Sahahsra on Collective level and when Kundalini get awakened you go straight to Nirvichaar Samadhi.

#251

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57411]This story, about Samadhi with object contradicts with statement in Sanhky Karika that: [B]Enlightenment is full discrimination between Purusha and Prakriti.[/B] Don’t forget this.

Astanga was needed because Sahahasra was not open. On 5 May 1970 Shri Mataji has opened Sahahsra on Collective level and when Kundalini get awakened you go straight to Nirvichaar Samadhi.[/QUOTE]

:???:

I am now sad.

ok. Well yes I agree the realization that purusha is distinct from nature( ‘prakrit’) is enlightened knowledge. You’ll have no argument from me there.

I was simply talking about the samadhis that lead to liberation (asamprajnata) , and those that the yogi can use as tools (samprajnata).

Thats all.

I must tell you that I reject the claims that is was your guru who was responsible for opening the entirety of humanities sahasrara chakra - due to the claim being illogical.

What of the accomplished yogis and adepts of the past who mapped out the reality -both seen and unseen?

#252

We know Patanjali does not mention Kundalini. He hardly even mentions chakras, he simply mentions points in the body that we can mediate on, such the crown of the head, the third eye or the navel. The system of chakras we know today did not emerge until very late in medival ages with tantra. This is not to say that this system was known prior to that, but the study of the energy anatomy of body did not take place until much later in the Tantra tradition. Allusions to Kundalini can be found even in the Vedas themselves, in the Rig Veda Saraswati is described as both a river, knowledge and even as the great spiritual energy or inspiration that comes to us. One verse says, “When Saraswati flows, then consciousness brightens up completely” and Saraswati is one manifestation of Adishakti. So it is not the case that this knowledge was not known to the ancients, but it was only later tantra traditions that wanted to study it in more detail and create detailed systems. The 7 chakra-model with ida, pingala and sushamana nadis is a relatively recent invention dating to late tantra history.

Only feeling the connection is not and of the story. The problem is that other “yogas” can’t”reach even this state. What about Kaivalya.

You call feeling a breeze over your head to feel a connection to “great all pervading power” Well, I was feeling this breeze over my head apparently from day one when I went to SY. So I was already self realised when I got there? :wink: I then realised every new member got told the same. I also saw how the SY members fanned their hands over the heads of new members creating a cool breeze above their head :wink:

Seriously, what is so great about feeling a cool breeze over your head? There is always a cool breeze over your head, duh :smiley: It is called air passing over your head. I am sorry but I cannot take you to be a sane person if you think because you are feeling this cool breeze you are enlightened/self-realised/connected to all pervading power(yeah, air lol)

Kundalini experiences are very well documented in science. They are highly dramatic experiences, life-transforming. They are said to feel like 10,000 volts going up your body. They are unmistakable. None of the scientific literature says you’ve had a kundalini experience if you feel a cool breeze over your head.

The problem is that other “yogas” can’t”reach even this state.

There have been several accounts of masters who have reached even the very final goal of of Yoga throughout Yoga lore. Like I said elsewhere if you had reached the goal, you would be a god now. You would be able to teleport to my room shake my hand and teleport back :wink:
Yogananda demonstrated the powers of prana live to audiences in America’s most prestigious halls, where he asked several strong men from the audience to push him down. He remained upright. Then with one touch he was able to throw them all down.

There are yogis who can be buried for weeks, days or months and come out in the same state. Recently, a team of Indian scientists studied an Indian yogi under controllled conditions for 14 days who did not eat or drink, he was absolutely normal. He does not eat or drink at all. He survives purely on prana.

Can you do any of these feats? Do you have any control on your prana? If not, you are not even at the basic level of competence even ordinary yogis are at, let alone enlightened :wink:

#253

Seeker,

“Sidharta Gautama is human who became enlightened-Buddha”

There is nobody who can become a Buddha, that is an impossibility. There is not a single person who is not already a Buddha from first to last, it is just a matter of whether one is aware of it or unaware of it, whether one has discovered one’s true nature or has remained unconscious of it. That is the only difference between a Buddha and a so called “ordinary” person. In fact, even trees, rocks, rivers, birds, mountains, the serpent and the dung of the serpent, there is not a single atom of this existence which doesn not arise out of one and the same original nature.

“Jesus is Incarnation of Divine child known as Shri Ganesha or Maha Vishnu.”

If you are fascinated with the idea of avatars, then there is nothing in existence which is not an avatar either. But - there are those who continue drawing dividing lines in the sand between this shore and the other shore.

#254

dear seeker,
Your Maataji is great at prepared or mugged up speeches like a flowering tree that does not bear any fruit’
i DONT DENOUNCE FAITH BUT THESE FAIT HEALERS who are taking advantages of simpletons like you.
rather than waking kundalini, you need to wake up.

#255

[QUOTE=The Scales;57416]I was simply talking about the samadhis that lead to liberation (asamprajnata) , and those that the yogi can use as tools (samprajnata).[/QUOTE]If you speak about YS 1.18 there Patanjali describes that when mental activity stops this helps to eliminate our conditionings/samskara/.

#256

[QUOTE=prasad;57527]dear seeker,
Your Maataji is great at prepared or mugged up speeches like a flowering tree that does not bear any fruit’
i DONT DENOUNCE FAITH BUT THESE FAIT HEALERS who are taking advantages of simpletons like you.
rather than waking kundalini, you need to wake up.[/QUOTE]Don?t speak if you are unprepared. Get familiar with the system and then we can elaborate on.
[B] Shri Mataji gave method how to achieve Atma Gnyan by awakening Kundalini Shakti.
[/B]

#257

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57417]They are said to feel like 10,000 volts going up your body. [/QUOTE]This is NOT awakening of Kundalini but hyperactivity of Ida and Pingala nadi.
[B]Kundalini is our Spiritual Mother and she will never harm us. [/B]

#258

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57543]This is NOT awakening of Kundalini but hyperactivity of Ida and Pingala nadi.
[B]Kundalini is our Spiritual Mother and she will never harm us. [/B][/QUOTE]

To the contrary, most people who have experienced REAL Kundalini awakenings, have been completely transformed and afterwards taken to serve humanity.

You still have not told me how feeling air over your head makes you anymore enlightened, spiritually developed than anybody else? :wink:

#259

I realize it’s a tough subject, but please keep it respectful. I just banned someone for a week and would prefer not to have to take anymore action. Thanks.

#260

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57546]To the contrary, most people who have experienced REAL Kundalini awakenings, have been completely transformed and afterwards taken to serve humanity.

You still have not told me how feeling air over your head makes you anymore enlightened, spiritually developed than anybody else? ;)[/QUOTE]
Please provide examples of persons with awakened Kundalini.
You felt the cool breeze as well and this is just the beginning of the process on Enlightenment. These are only 1-2 treads of Kundlaini. More treads needs to come out.