Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)


#221

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56307]Haha, it almost sounds like I have had some experience with every cult. I am a true seeker in every sense of that word. I have looked at everything to satisfy my soul’s thrist - and alas my soul is even more thirsty.

What else have I been involved in? I am a member of the Theosophical lodge. I have also given talks there.
This is my first Western cult. The Theosophical lodge are harmless today though, and to be honest a bit boring. They are too stuck in their Victorian ways, and they meet infrequently at the local lodge. The sessions are usually divided into a study group and then some random lecture on a new-age topic. In the past, I understand they have been involved in a lot of fradulent activity and I strongly question the origins of the Secret Doctrine and the Mahatma letters, which claim have been channeled to them by the adepts and ascended masters in India and Tibet. I do indeed like reading their literature, such as the Key to Theosophy - but they need a complete overhaul if they want to survive into the 21st century.

I have contact with other Western cults through friends: The Freemasons, The Golden Dawn, OTO - we occasionally meet in the pub and have dinner together. I also attended about a year of Gnostic classes. In general I find them harmless, and very knowlegable - but alas very new-age. Although they themselves oppose new-age stuff and resent the label. I know that a lot of the stuff they teach, which they claim is part of an indigenious Western tradition, is just a rehash of the Eastern tradition. A note to Western new agers: stop pretending you have an indigenious Yoga tradition. You do not. The closest thing you have to Yoga is Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, but they are definitely not as developed as Yoga and were prematurely ended by the Roman Empire. This is why you follow Yoga. Oh, and Kabbalh is not an authentic tradition, it is new-age interpretation of the bible.

What else have I been involved in? Dabbled in the new age attending spiritual churches weekly for a few months for open circle mediumship and healling. Had a medium mentor for a month. Attended some psychic development classes and learned crystal healing, dousing and healing, fragments of reikei, aura gazing, astral projection, Indigo children and other such superficial rubbish. This is a cult in itself because these people are highly needy, deluded and do not practice real spirituality. They delude themselves into thinking they have become enlightened - but they are usually just morons.

Attended 1 class of the Hare Krishnas and visited their IKSON temple in India. Just wow. These are some of the most fundamentalist people I have ever met, and stupid. Stay away for your sanity.

I have gone to Church a few times, but never a Mosque. I have read both the holy bible and the Quran. The Quran was leant to me by a Muslim fundamentalist student at high school in order to convert me. Obviously it did not work. These scriptures to me are at the bottom of the barrel of every scripture I have read and every new-age book I have read. The only reason people continue to read them is because they do it out of a sense of loyalty and respect or faith. Otherwise, they are just remenants of a primitive desert culture - and teach you NOTHING!

I have also read the Sikh bible the Guru Granth Sahib. It is a lot more positive and uplifting - but boy is it repetitive. I get the message already, “God is great, god is love, god is beyond description - god god god god god” It is basically a giant book of odes to god.

I am less versed in Buddhist scriptures. I have the Dhammapada lying around somewhere. I gave it a cursory glance, but was not too impressed. I have also read the Tao-te-ching, nice, but not too impressive. Buddhist and Taoic scriptures tend to be quite light in content, but still spiritually uplifting to read. They are no matches for Hindu scriptures though which are often rational and scientific discourses and teach pure spirituality.

Finally, in terms of “secular Yoga” I did the Bihar School of Yoga Satyananda Yoga for a few months. I found it dry, but very serious and no BS stuff. I am considering BSY seriously for my future path. They are very serious about their Yoga and their books, “Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas”, “Yoga Nidra”, “Sure ways to self-realization” are some of the best and most informative I have found ever. They are like a benchmark in Yoga.[/QUOTE]

Some of the most profound teachings are in the Tao te Ching. As a matter of fact, a lot of times I feel that Taoism and Sanatana Dharma share a common ancestry. Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu are the most profound sages you can study…and the entire philosophy of Taoism is very very similar to Vedanta (especially Advaita Vedanta). They are mystical in nature like the Upanishads and just reading them will awaken prajna in many a seeker.


#222

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57073]Dear, please show me some other method that can accelerate my spiritual growth faster than SY and I am ready to leave SY.

[B]So far there is nothing better than SY.[/B][/QUOTE]

What other ways have you tried ?


#223

“They are mystical in nature like the Upanishads and just reading them will awaken prajna in many a seeker.”

It can happen, but it is very rare. And if it happens, it is less because of the scripture itself, and more because of your inner state which is prepared for just about any excuse for prajna to arise.


#224

[QUOTE=charliedharma;57119]What other ways have you tried ?[/QUOTE]Hatha.


#225

Surya,

“The mind is both the enslaver and the liberator”

I can agree with this, but for a totally different reason. Because without mind, to come to one’s awakening is impossible - the mind is like a bridge which can be used or which can stand as a barrier. It is the case with any instrument, not just the mind. Any instrument can be used in a thousand and one differnet ways depending on the hands which are using them. This is why in the yogic sciences, there have been usually two different approaches towards samadhi. Either you can cut off the stream of the senses and bring the mind into stillness and come to samadhi, or you can stimulate the mind and the senses and come to samadhi. Stimulation of the senses can be used as a skillful means, the same thing which in other approaches they have been trying to avoid. That is why there have been several tantric maxims which have said, “The very poison that kills becomes the elixir of life when used by the wise”, or “one must rise by that which one falls”, and that Bukti (enjoyment) can be used as a means towards mukti (liberation).

“but the same language can liberate us, when you can clearly label things, understand how things work, and then utilize those things towads our benefit.”

Our language is useful in that way, but if you start clinging to our words, descriptions, and knowledge - then they become barriers.

“Like it or not, you have to use language. You do live in a real world. You do have senses and you do have mind.”

That is great, it has taken millions of years of evolution for the mind and senses to develop to what they are now. But to have clarity into the mind, something beyond the mind is needed.

“If you did not use language, you would not know the difference between a snake and a rope”

To know the difference, no language is needed - just the capacity for seeing. Out of seeing, then perhaps you can say something about it to make the situation more easily accessible to others. But it should be understood - that everything that we are using in language has it’s roots in experience, and language is not a substitute for experience.

“Why, because we are separate conscious being”

I would question this.

“Buddhism went the nihilism path”

I am not a Buddhist, and there are a thousand and one things which I would not agree with in Buddhism. Truth is neither Buddhist, Hindu, or otherwise. But you are wrong - “Buddhism” is not nihilistic. Nihilism is itself another projection of the mind.

"Yeah, lets just annihilate ourselves and not make any efforts "

That is also inaccurate. If one knows anything about the training of the Buddhist monks - they have been just as arduous and one-pointed in their disciple as any other tradition, they are yogis.

"You expect us to throw away language, throw away control, throw away our ego, and just leave ourselves prey to nature. "

No, that is not my approach. Everything is to be seen, understood, developed, and integrated. Even the ego, when put where it belongs in one’s total structure, becomes supportive for one’s expansion. Nature has never put anything in one’s system without a precise function.

“For even to deny you, you would have to admit the one that denies. The fact that there is a you, who knows, sees, desires, feels is absolute.”

In a sense, there is. In a sense, there is not.


#226

He (or she) whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: “I am the holy spirit incarnate”


#227

[QUOTE=Dickon;57147]He (or she) whose mind is deluded by egoism thinks: ?I am the holy spirit incarnate?[/QUOTE]Jesus said:[B] ?I am the son of GOD?. How many people believed him?
[/B]


#228

Seeker, there are so many paths out there that it should be easy for you if you had a sincere desire to find out about them doing a basic google search. Kundaini awakenings take place on all paths and traditions, because all kundalini needs to rise is a spiritual practice.

Here are how varied practices are in spirituality in history: fire sacrifices, mantras, mindfullness, idol worship, meditation, breath control, alchemy, contemplation, morality, charity, visualizations, pilgramage, music and dance, poetry, taking hallucinogens.

Any one of these practices can awaken your kundalini and give you spiritual experiences. If, however your question is what is the best practice to awaken the kundalini the fastest, then that is Kriya Yoga. In Kriya Yoga you work directly on the spine, your aim is to clear the nadis(nadi shodhana) in order to allow more prana to flow, and finally by gaining the control of prana to awaken the kundalini. You do practices like spinal breathing where you move your prana up and down the spine(this in a nutshell is kriya yoga) when you become more adept at the practice, you will be able to move the prana through each chakra. Another practice is meditating on each chakra by simply putting your awareness there and penetrating it deeply. There is a lot of energy work in Kriya Yoga. It is often called the fastest and lightening path of Yoga.

I am considering Kriya Yoga as my path, but I have a pull towards Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is harder and slower, but the most simplest to do: observe. All you ever need to do if you want to reach the goal of Yoga is to simply sit, close your eyes observe your mind and keep observing it. Not reacting to any thoughts; just watching everything dispassionately. Keep this up and you will get to the goal. If you have real dedication, keep this up for hours or days. You will get somewhere. You will find though that the following will prove to be obstacles: your body will find it hard to sit still, your breath will become irregular and it will break your concentration, your senses will keep registering outside impressions, your mind will find it hard to remained focussed and keep identifying with the thoughts or think about the thoughts. This is why in the Raja yoga tradition there are several practices that are done to purify and train the mind-body so these disturbances are eradicated. Asanas, mudras and bandhas are done to train your body to sit still, pranayama is done to make your breath regular, rhymic and smoothe, antar mouna is done to train your mind to switch of from the senses, tratika is done to help focus your mind.

Theoretically you could just sit still, start watching your mind, and do this for days. You will initially be hit by every physical and mental challenge under the sun, extreme pain in the body, stiffness, hunger, thirst, physical restlessness. Drowsiness, bombardment by subconscious impressions, highly traumatic memories resurfacing, extreme cravings, even possible psychosis - but if you can remain in meditation despite all this, they will all gradually dissipate and eventually your sense of body will completely disappear and you will feel like pure light. Then your mind will become completely silent and you will feel immense bliss. Maintain it from hereon and you are not very far from enlightenment.


#229

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57237]Seeker, there are so many paths out there that it should be easy for you if you had a sincere desire to find out about them doing a basic google search. Kundaini awakenings take place on all paths and traditions, because all kundalini needs to rise is a spiritual practice.

Here are how varied practices are in spirituality in history: fire sacrifices, mantras, mindfullness, idol worship, meditation, breath control, alchemy, contemplation, morality, charity, visualizations, pilgramage, music and dance, poetry, taking hallucinogens.

Any one of these practices can awaken your kundalini and give you spiritual experiences. If, however your question is what is the best practice to awaken the kundalini the fastest, then that is Kriya Yoga. In Kriya Yoga you work directly on the spine, your aim is to clear the nadis(nadi shodhana) in order to allow more prana to flow, and finally by gaining the control of prana to awaken the kundalini. You do practices like spinal breathing where you move your prana up and down the spine(this in a nutshell is kriya yoga) when you become more adept at the practice, you will be able to move the prana through each chakra. Another practice is meditating on each chakra by simply putting your awareness there and penetrating it deeply. There is a lot of energy work in Kriya Yoga. It is often called the fastest and lightening path of Yoga.

I am considering Kriya Yoga as my path, but I have a pull towards Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is harder and slower, but the most simplest to do: observe. All you ever need to do if you want to reach the goal of Yoga is to simply sit, close your eyes observe your mind and keep observing it. Not reacting to any thoughts; just watching everything dispassionately. Keep this up and you will get to the goal. If you have real dedication, keep this up for hours or days. You will get somewhere. You will find though that the following will prove to be obstacles: your body will find it hard to sit still, your breath will become irregular and it will break your concentration, your senses will keep registering outside impressions, your mind will find it hard to remained focussed and keep identifying with the thoughts or think about the thoughts. This is why in the Raja yoga tradition there are several practices that are done to purify and train the mind-body so these disturbances are eradicated. Asanas, mudras and bandhas are done to train your body to sit still, pranayama is done to make your breath regular, rhymic and smoothe, antar mouna is done to train your mind to switch of from the senses, tratika is done to help focus your mind.

Theoretically you could just sit still, start watching your mind, and do this for days. You will initially be hit by every physical and mental challenge under the sun, extreme pain in the body, stiffness, hunger, thirst, physical restlessness. Drowsiness, bombardment by subconscious impressions, highly traumatic memories resurfacing, extreme cravings, even possible psychosis - but if you can remain in meditation despite all this, they will all gradually dissipate and eventually your sense of body will completely disappear and you will feel like pure light. Then your mind will become completely silent and you will feel immense bliss. Maintain it from hereon and you are not very far from enlightenment.[/QUOTE]

As I understand it - the practices of Kriya Yoga were culled and assembled into the system, due to their effectiveness in leading one towards the position of Raja.


#230

All other Yogas still somehow plug into Raja Yoga. Hatha Yoga itself says it was a means towards Raja Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is just Raja Yoga, except with an external object of high reverence. Kriya Yoga can fit into the pranayama part of Raja Yoga. Kriya Yoga however, is perhaps a full path in itself and not just an appendage to Raja Yoga, as it works directly with prana to control the mind and when the kundalini is awakened it takes you to the samadhi state anyway.

I guess one way of getting there is meditation. Another way of getting there is the alchemy of Kriya Yoga.


#231

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57243]All other Yogas still somehow plug into Raja Yoga. Hatha Yoga itself says it was a means towards Raja Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is just Raja Yoga, except with an external object of high reverence. Kriya Yoga can fit into the pranayama part of Raja Yoga. Kriya Yoga however, is perhaps a full path in itself and not just an appendage to Raja Yoga, as it works directly with prana to control the mind and when the kundalini is awakened it takes you to the samadhi state anyway.

I guess one way of getting there is meditation. Another way of getting there is the alchemy of Kriya Yoga.[/QUOTE]

The “kriya yoga” system culls the essentials from the various flavors of yoga ( hatha, laya, jnana, mantra, raja) and so on - to lead one towards the “position of raja.”

That is what makes it special.

When I say the Position of Raja - I mean you are really a yogi.

When i say you are really a yogi that means you can achieve both objectionable samyama and non-objectional samadhi.


#232

“Jesus said: “I am the son of GOD”. How many people believed him?”

Certainly, only those who are as mad as himself are going to believe such a madman, declaring himself as the long awaited messiah who has come to liberate not just the Jews, but the whole humanity. If that is the Jesus that you are thinking of - then the man was as asleep as you are. There has never been a Buddha who has ever declared that your liberation lies in his hands.


#233

“I guess one way of getting there is meditation”

If one is to be in living communion with existence, then there is no other process except meditation. Because meditation simply means to remain a witness in the present. To remain a witness in the present is not something that can be done as an effort of the mind, although an effort of the mind is needed in the beginning. But it is the natural quality of awareness itself. That is one of the reasons why most people struggle with meditation, because they are trying to witness as a technique.

Unless you are a witness to the present, then it is impossible to be in tune with things as they are in your experience, because everything is being orchestrated from this very moment. Shift out of this moment, and you have shifted out of the whole existence. So it is not that meditation is a means towards being in tune with reality - it is itself being integrated with reality.


#234

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57248]“Jesus said: ?I am the son of GOD?. How many people believed him?”

Certainly, only those who are as mad as himself are going to believe such a madman, declaring himself as the long awaited messiah who has come to liberate not just the Jews, but the whole humanity. If that is the Jesus that you are thinking of - then the man was as asleep as you are. There has never been a Buddha who has ever declared that your liberation lies in his hands.[/QUOTE]

Everyone is awake! No one is asleep. Even when they sleep. They are still awake.

god could you be anymore of an arrogant prick?

You punk kid.


#235

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57249]“I guess one way of getting there is meditation”

If one is to be in living communion with existence, then there is no other process except meditation. Because meditation simply means to remain a witness in the present. To remain a witness in the present is not something that can be done as an effort of the mind, although an effort of the mind is needed in the beginning. But it is the natural quality of awareness itself. That is one of the reasons why most people struggle with meditation, because they are trying to witness as a technique.

Unless you are a witness to the present, then it is impossible to be in tune with things as they are in your experience, because everything is being orchestrated from this very moment. Shift out of this moment, and you have shifted out of the whole existence. So it is not that meditation is a means towards being in tune with reality - it is itself being integrated with reality.[/QUOTE]

Your definition is incorrect.

You know Zero.

Please don’t come on here and give any advice. All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.

There is no merit in your actions because you are not in knowledge.

Shouldn’t you be playing nintendo instead of digging your hole deeper and deeper?


#236

“Everyone is awake! No one is asleep.”

You are again searching knowingly or unknowingly for excuses to continue living in the same way that you have always been living. And your system will try and resist transformation at almost any cost - manufacturing as many excuses as needed to keep yourself comfortable, feeling protected, in the warmth of security. The fact is that unless one invests tremendous attention and energy into coming to know oneself, then suffering is inevitable. Part of the whole process of coming to know oneself is first to recognize that you are asleep, that so far you have been living your life out of ignroance. Unless one first comes to a recognition of ones ignorance, in the same breath one has denied oneself of the possibility of seeking and finding.

“Please don’t come on here and give any advice”

Will continue coming on here, giving advice, and pressing on your wounds where it hurts. If you are disturbed by it, then sit for meditation.

“All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.”

Yes, I am entangled in a great delusion. That is why - because you have your own delusions, you should not even be concerned with that of others. If you have any interest in your own liberation, settle your own condition first.


#237

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57255]“Everyone is awake! No one is asleep.”

You are again searching knowingly or unknowingly for excuses to continue living in the same way that you have always been living. And your system will try and resist transformation at almost any cost - manufacturing as many excuses as needed to keep yourself comfortable, feeling protected, in the warmth of security. The fact is that unless one invests tremendous attention and energy into coming to know oneself, then suffering is inevitable. Part of the whole process of coming to know oneself is first to recognize that you are asleep, that so far you have been living your life out of ignroance. Unless one first comes to a recognition of ones ignorance, in the same breath one has denied oneself of the possibility of seeking and finding.

“Please don’t come on here and give any advice”

Will continue coming on here, giving advice, and pressing on your wounds where it hurts. If you are disturbed by it, then sit for meditation.

“All you do is cause yourself and others more delusion.”

Yes, I am entangled in a great delusion. That is why - because you have your own delusions, you should not even be concerned with that of others. If you have any interest in your own liberation, settle your own condition first.[/QUOTE]

I don’t read your lenghty responses to me. Just to let you know.

[B]This is because you are a punk kid of 25 years old - who has absolutely nothing of value to share with me. [/B]

I do however sometimes read your responses to others.

You are a fool, and not in a good way.

did you eat your fruit loops this morning?

Want a lolly pop?

*** Member was banned for seven days for this post. - Forum Admin - 04/14/2011 at 7:11 am central


#238

“who has absolutely nothing of value to share with me.”

Then continue on your way.


#239

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57237]I am considering Kriya Yoga as my path, but I have a pull towards Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga is harder and slower, but the most simplest to do: observe.[/QUOTE]Please describe in [B]one sentence[/B], how to achieve Enlightenment with Raja yoga.


#240

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57248]There has never been a Buddha who has ever declared that your liberation lies in his hands.[/QUOTE]Sidharta Gautama is human who became enlightened-Buddha. [B]Jesus is Incarnation of Divine child known as Shri Ganesha or Maha Vishnu. [/B]