Anand, join us at our discussion Yoga: Sex vs Celibacy, here;
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/yoga-and-sex-vs-celibacy-8342.html
[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62522]Anand, join us at our discussion Yoga: Sex vs Celibacy, here;
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/yoga-and-sex-vs-celibacy-8342.html[/QUOTE]
Dear friend:
Thanks, I have posted the same thoughts there.
Regards, anand
…
Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
Siddha Yoga (Muktananda / Gurumayi Chidvilasananda)
Self Realization Fellowship (Paramahansa Yogananda)
Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science & Philosophy
Transcendental Meditation (based on Raja Yoga)
Elan Vital (Divine Light Mission)
Dahn Yoga
etc etc
…
this list is so widely divergent i’m not sure where to begin. maybe a metaphor–it is as if you were to list a group of possible real ducks to define the water fowl for someone who doesn’t know what a ‘duck’ is and you were to list it like this…
Mallard duck
Canadian Goose
decoy duck
Daffy duck
rubber ducky
Your list is swinging this badly from one extreme to the next. The existence of the rubber ducky doesn’t make the Mallard duck a less beautiful bird. It’s just that rubber ducky is only useful for bath time 
Seeking beyond the body and mind is a pretty hard-core endeavor. No time to waste on fluffer- nutter (ya know, that marshmallow spread from the 70’s?). Some of the groups you mention above seem to offer the seed of a genuine path–Even with those you would need to have the intelligence and discipline to know how to apply it. Others are just more ‘blind leading the blind’ belief in utter nonsense. Still others are pure business–opportunism. Which is which is for you to use your intelligence, look into it and see.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56062]
The fact is that anything at all which deviates from the commonly accepted standards of the society is going to be called a “cult”, even though the whole humanity consists of so many cults. But ordinarily, what is more commonly accepted, you do not call it a “cult”. Nobody has ever heard of somebody calling the democratic party a cult, or communists a cult, even though they are just as much cults as anything else.
[B]What is important is not whether something is a “cult” or not, but whether any group or community consists of individuals who are conscious and awake[/B].[/QUOTE]
I agree with the first part, but the bolded part needs further explanation Because there are levels of consciousness, and awareness. (I am not using your word, awake, as the term is more black and white - awarness can have limits and extent, awakenness less so) So what is the level of consciusness what could differentiate between a group being cultist, or not ? And from the relativism of this level, we could arrive to the idea, that perhaps not this level is really important, but … the relation of the individual to the group he/she has chosen to be part of. And based on the freedom of this choice, what, by the way, should be a constant, ever renewing one, meaning that the individual should scrutinize from time to time his/her appartenence to the group, his/her motives, reasons, expectations and renew his/her adherence to the group. If we put up this requirement, that of being able to discern, form judgement on his/her own, and relate freely to the group based on a conviction based on understanding, than sadly, we must admit your conclusion, that each of us are, at least partially, and in various domains of our lives, cultists. Or, at least, we are so, to the extent of our acceptance of the social, familial, ethnic, gender based limitations, without ever questioning them. Did you ever thought about how being a man, or a woman is actually being a member of a cult ? That there are travesties, shows, that this is not a biological limitation, but very much an assumed, accepted, enacted role of membership. Yet so many times I find that perhaps as a response to centuries of patristic dogmatism, proponents of the Goddess emerge with a strong feminist verve, and I have to question myself … on what level does this opposition takes really place ?
Aside from philosophycal depths, being part of a cult, as I have witnessed it from the inside, assumes, that there is a certain set of axioma, or dogma; rules and believes the group accepts without ever questioning them. Usually these cults are built on the trinity of Master, Way, and Community. There is a Master, a leader, whom is accepted by the members of the group as their leader based on his/her wisdom, strenght, charisma, whose guidance is usually is unquestioned, what leads to the Way, on what the member is expected to advance, and there is the fraternity with other likeminded individuals. All this to work, certain disposition of the members, disciples have to be present; one must be able to accept or admit, that there can be individuals better than myself, and not just marginally, but by a measure so great that my own comprehension fails justifying his/her actions. This leads usually to the Master being withdrawn, and granting audiences and personal guidance, but this is performed in relative secrecy. Discussion of what takes place in this seclusion is discouraged. It also takes a certain level of zeal, to believe that what we desire the most must be true, leading to the prejudice that the members of the group are elect and select (the chosen), better than others, the unitiated. These gropus seek to differentiate themselves from the gentiles, or lay people by clothing, various rituals, diet, and so on. Now, there is place for error even in the most genuine and well intentioned groups, or schools, so the above things do not suffice in the asessment of the real value of such a group or cult.
Yet, the more present and emphasised are the external aspects of the Master, the Way, and the Community, the more we can assume the lack of the inner, more meaningful qualities.
There was a time, when humanity was led entirely by superhuman figures (avatars), but this is no longer the case, and it’s examples today can be deemed atavistic. The time now is for smaller yet more strong communities, created by free and strong in themselves individuals. Not being born from a personal weakness to be led, but from the strong personal will to perform service of humanity. There still are and always will be more advanced individuals, but they know the best, that the time of authority has passed, the time of the law has passed, and the time for love, comprehension, and free search for the divine has come. In this context, the Master cannot be but a partner, at most. The rteal Mater will not command, but He will ask you for help. And indeed, what can be more motivating, inspiring, than there is really need even for our limted powers ?
Hii,
Although I have never practised YOGA but i always believe in GOD and my opinion is that there is a power which is inside every human being and also which is working in this whole universe who has made this SUN, MOON, STARS and so many wonderful things and this is alsio the truth that untill or unless there is SUN and Moon in this sky there is a power of GOD which is with us and watching everyone’s deed.So, “yoga” according to me should be something through which we can get a connection with GOD.
Here I would also like to quote that as has been mentioned above by Mr. Aamir, Scale and Suryadev, an enlightened one can be recognised by the way he talks to other and present himself in front of others. Usually an enlightened one must have some sense. he should listen to others also and untill or unless anyone has not seen that power one has no right to talk some organisation or group bad or cult or fraud group. so, I am really impressed with Mr. aamir and scale’s quotes. I request u to kindly tell me abt wt u r practising as I feel the truth in practical experience not in literature and all because those all scriptures were written by the human beings (enlightened souls), most of the things written there are correct but not all because Human beings can not decide GOD’S work. GOD is free from all these things he can do whatever he wants he can anytime come on this earth to take the test of all of us if we recognise him or not. If we have the tendency to deny everything and opose everyone s believe we are destroying ourselves not anyone else. we are wasting our own time. so realisation and recognisition of the truth is very important… 
Thank you
[QUOTE=MindNinja;57926]Seeker 33 I have a very good contact that can get you Red & Green Chillies in bulk, as much as you want. Please private message me if interested, they are best quality.
Moving away from Sahaja Yoga nonsense, which incidentally has only around 5000 followers Worldwide!!! In Shri Mataji’s 30+ years of Sahaja Yoga that was all she managed to attract! Anyone with common sense stayed away from cool breezes, severe flatulence, spells with chillies & paper, etc.
[B]What is it that makes sane rational Intelligent people believe in such things? [/B] That is the key question.
Go tell any average person in the West about Sahaja Yoga - tell them everything what they are really getting into i.e. soon they will be doing strange magic spells and rituals with chillies, turds, paper, etc; having to do protective Bandahns just to function normally etc; and develop an acute fear if they leave bad things or illnesses will befall them. [B]They would run a mile!!! Hence 5000 probably less followers in the entire world. [/B]
Same with any Cult, if Scientology told you everything about Ron Hubbard’s history, in the future you will be believing in Intergalastic warlords and aliens, and these aliens body thetans are the source of all man’s problems - [B]you would naturally run a mile!!![/B]
But of course they don’t, and gradually lure you in and indoctrinate you. With Scientology of course they keep making you pay for more very expensive courses. As well as doing auditing and lots of other things to really condition you to become dependent on them.
[B]It it is still AMAZING the way they convince people some of whom would normally be sceptical, overtime that they have found the truth and to believe in it all without question. [/B][/QUOTE]
MIND NINZA: I dont know abt Sahajyoga but I am really surprised on your such a way of presenting your views, you are discussing abt yoga and such words like nonscense you are using, really shameful and surprising, a person who even has little sense and knowledge abt yoga can not write such words to any of the Group and abt any or the personality, a common person or a person haveing little faith on GOD and YOGA is supposed to be very calm and listener and this is world wide fact that Lemon and chillies are used to remove the negativities of the house or of yourselves as we use Coconut for the devi pujan. First you should improve your way of speaking then after you will be able to talk to any yogi whatever yoga he belongs to.
Seeker 33: Whatever u r practising shows your calm behaviour. it is good that u r not like these ppl who instead of listening and understanding the things keep making fun. Good Luck to you and also I wud like to tell you one thing if some one is opposing your thoughts continuously is not harming you but harming themselves. it is better you stop sharing your thoughts with such ppl. dont beat your head on a wall. what I understand is truth remains truth whether someone accepts or not.
[QUOTE=akansharoi;67669]Seeker 33: Whatever u r practising shows your calm behaviour. it is good that u r not like these ppl who instead of listening and understanding the things keep making fun. Good Luck to you and also I wud like to tell you one thing if some one is opposing your thoughts continuously is not harming you but harming themselves. it is better you stop sharing your thoughts with such ppl. dont beat your head on a wall. what I understand is truth remains truth whether someone accepts or not.[/QUOTE]Thanks, Enjoy:
821009 Public Program, Cambridge
The real problem is the word “cult” which one generally associates with a negative connotation and hence the strong reactions. The deeper question is - Can a “school of thought” lead to Enlightenment or that utopia that one seeks? Did Buddhism create more Buddhas? Or did Jainism create more Mahaviras? Can enlightenment be had by following? It seems “following” results in shutting out our own individual enquiries, something essential to move towards that state. Instead we take refuge in the shelter of rules, dictums and methods. These give us a security, a kind of ‘license’ to say we are on the right track. The reality may be totally different… Perhaps when we realize that Insecurity is the only thing that is certain, can we start moving towards that state.
Akansharoi, [I]‘I dont know abt Sahajyoga’ [/I]- says it all, go read up on them then talk. You forget some groups are cults and some of them have hijacked the word Yoga for marketing purposes.
http://www.sahajacult.com/ Read that for starters.
I’ve been to meetings of Sahaja Yoga know all about it first hand. Go read some of the crazy claims & sayings of the founder, then talk.
Sahaja Yoga was founded around 1970 in 40 years it managed to again just a few thousand followers, around 5000 worldwide today - people aren’t stupid & most run a mile once they know what they are getting into, hence such a small membership.
Tagging the term ‘Yoga’ onto a group name does not mean it is legit or not a cult, nor does it necessiate it really is Yoga.
I would like to share my personal experiences with Sahaja Yoga.
When I was twelve I first asked myself, what is God, who am I, and what is [I]this[/I] ?
Gradually I started to grow and I studied those who I respected, but I felt a need to be carefull and searched with an approach that everything must be verified within.
I continued to seek and grow.
When I was 16, I stayed at a friends house and (unknowingly to me) he was a Sahaja Yogi. When I stayed in the guest room I noticed a picture of an Indian Women (Shri Mataji). I asked about it and so my friend gave me a documentary about Her which I watched at home, but I did not pay much more attention to it after.
A couple of days later, my Kundalini rose spontaneously. During the day I felt like my perception had suddenly changed. The same evening, I stumbled upon a paragraph of the Bible, the acts of the Apostles chapter 2 which describes a wind that sits in each Apostle. As I read the paragraph, I felt an energy rise through my body emiting a [I]breeze out of both my hands and out the top of my head in a circular shape.[/I] . After the experience, I walked around for a couple of days a bit confused, but my entire paradigm had changed. At first I thought maybe I had hypnotised myself, but clearly a transformation had taken place and I would continue to often feel my Kundalini working.
After about a week I felt the need to tell someone so I told that friend of mine what I had experienced, surprised he shared with me a link of Sahaja Yoga and I read an exact description of what I had felt.
That was 5 years ago. Since then Sahaja Yoga has helped me grow on many levels. I have left many addictions behind, I have developed better relationships with all my family, my school had suddenly improved dramatically, I was much more effective in general, more peaceful, consistent, happier and innocent. Do I owe this to Sahaja Yoga? Yes absolutely. Have I seen the same thing happen to people around me such as friends and family? Yes.
I had the chance last year to see Shri Mataji in person. That to me got rid of any doubts of my mind. When Sahaja Yogi’s talk about a cool breeze, it is not changes in the air or anything, I have felt my Kundalini rise outside with strong winds and I could feel the difference between the [I]wind[/I] emerging from my hands from my Kundalini and that of the surrounding winds. This breeze is very specific and is felt when one’s kundalini goes through the Sahasrara.
There is so much negativity in this thread against Sahaja Yoga so I decided to briefly share this as I am clearly an outsider.
So in short I don’t really get what a cult is as from my understanding almost anything can be defined as one. I do not think Sahaja Yoga is dangerous at all, on the contrary based on my own experiences and searching it is the most effective way for spiritual growth. To be honest, I don’t really mind what it is labelled, as I will be forever grateful no matter what others say…
May God Bless you all.
Anyone see Martha Marcy May Marlene? Aachan James’ revolving door cult isn’t as disturbing, but there are elements of a scam factory in his enterprise that feed on open minded yoga students . He smokes like a chimney, preaches non friendly interaction in class while always trying to procure his next household slave. He and his wife give a negative vibe, take advantage both financially and sexually of their students. Class is all talk. He obviously lost his way. Be wise, pick another Guru!
It is astounding to read things from former SRF Members who have such terrible tales to tell.
I was an SRF Member many years ago but it was never for me. Once the information was obtained that was the end of it.
I guess one could call SRF and any other group that calls itself a Church and teaches it’s version of Yoga a cult that teaches yoga, that is not just Hatha or exercise type Yoga, but I think that would not be correct to do.
The word CULT has an ugly negative connotation.
Rather it is up to the individual and just how caught up in any organized Human effort that they become and weather or not it has a beneficial or non beneficial effect on the life or lives of the members.
This should determine if a organized meeting of people engaged in like activities and similar beliefs is a CULT or not.
I agree with yama-He and his wife are obviously just in it for the money. They will tell you how why they need the money so you can get pressured into making a bad decision.
I hope his pupils wake up and see the light someday, also I hope most people don’t believe what most gurus say and be very skeptical of what’s they’re going to sign up for.
Brahma Kumaris is deifnetely a cult, a cult that offers free meditation and then isolate you from your real family. And you wont get anything in return regardless how long you have served them.
you can watch the video or read the article wht’s going on there
I am watching Wild, Wild Country on Netflix abd Bagwan Rajneesh.
Wow!! How did I not know about this back then??
I watched Wild Wild Country and remember the cult being in Vancouver Canada 1980's. I worked in publishing and did some lay-out work for their newsletter. They use hot women dressed in red silk to get young men with money to join. Wearing red clothes and wooden beads wasn't my thing, I would roll my eyes when I'd see them hippy guys all in red. But wow the women in red silk, what a lure.
When I lived in England early '70s Hara Krishna was on the go and saw friends get heavy into that.
It is a powerful thing to commit to a dream, an ideal.
Brahma Kumaris are know for breaking up families. There cult practices say that end of the world coming soon, give your money to us we will make good use of your money. Their followers are mostly hypnotized. Beware of this Indian cult . They make use of foreigners for free publicity, Showing that even foreigners are part of our organisation.
Another excellent example of a classical yoga cult/sect with all the trick, bells, whistles and red flags all over the place: The atman, misa, natha, tara, etc yoga tantra cult. It's as if they read all the books about cults and put all the cult tricks into practice...
Sahaja Yoga as taught by Mrs. Shrivastava basically allows the autonomous nervous system to regulate the sympathetic and parasympathetic parts of the nervous system, free from the burden of ego and insatiable desires.
In her own words, she never started out to be worshipped but felt it might help after a lot of people said they wanted to worship her and she understood that doing so would help a lot of people , perhaps enough to right the wrongs that human beings have done.
She learned about SY from direct experience, growing up in a simple and innocent society that understood yoga experientially, as a product of living dharmicaly. The Vedas simply support attitudes and ways of living that are experienced naturally by dharmic people.
Her motivation was to try to remedy the cause of the unrest that followed partition, having dedicated her life to the ideals of Mahatma Gandhi, and subsequently seeing his inadequacies.
The 'cool breeze' may not be scientifically substantiated, but it is a direct visceral experience of thousands of people, who at the time are completely thoughtless but fully present and conscious of their connection to everything around them due to 'vibrations', which are nothing more than the interaction of the electromagnetic field given off by everything, as percieved by the nervous system ( Neuroception ).
The Sahasrara co-relates to the little dip in the skull that was soft as a foetus right up to soon after birth, which was positioned close to the vagus nerve in the womb, making the developing foetus receptive to the Mother's autonomous nervous system and all she was feeling.
The nervous system records everything we experience, from birth to death, hence it is receptive to whatever resembles past experiences. Hence the effectiveness of 'surrendering' to the divine as Mother, the mother principle being that which is most closely related to our perception of Self (Atma ), in the sense that the nurturing action of the vagus nerve is best connected to by identifying with motherhood.
That is what brings the sensation of bliss and peace in the heart in a way that can be most effectively built upon in one's effort to become dharmic and correct the societal ills that come from that part of human nature that is insecure and leads to all the ills and excesses in human behaviour.
Worshipping deific archetypes from them on nurtures different aspects of one's physiology so as to tyne one's consciousness into one's perception of being part and parcel of the whole, especially in terms of human relationships as everyone's physiology functions the same way when it is free from the delusions of mentalnand emotional excess.
Sadly, yes, mad people come into sy, because they have felt these things and have felt relief as a consequence, but they are unable to master it and fall foul of their ego and insecurities, then going on to become fanatics and cause harm.
But that can be forgiven too given the pervasiveness of madness in society, much of which is accepted as normal, even celebrated and enforced, and the fact that so many do go on to 'clear out' completely and fully understand their oneness with the divine.
Everything is one with the divine. Any attempt at yogic practice is actually an attempt to become fully aware of that fact. The only achievement is the ability to realise and accept that one does not exist as a consequence of their thoughts or emotions, and that to be fully aware of one's self they have to be conscious while in Nirvichara.
Yoga is a state of being, not something one can do.
But yes, it is a path full of hazards if one does not know one's Self, that part of one's consciousness that exists at all times but gets clouded by emotion and ego, both of which are subject to delusion.
Conscipusness of the Self / Atman only remains when if one can viscerally feel one's existence in the absence of thought and emotion.
Feelings precede emotions and thoughts, and havit, insecurity, ego, lust, greed, hatred, etc influence our interpretation of our visceral felt sense.
Only when we are free of those things can we respond to the full receptivity of our nervous system to everything around us in dharmic manner, a manner which relates to the truth of what is happening in the moment.
It takes tappasya, and that can mean distancing one's self from people who aren't really serious about understanding the seriousness of what is required to change the course of events that humanity is in due to the delusion of believing that thoughts and emotions will provide the solution.
The solution will only come when enough people can tune into the absoluteness that underlies the reason we exist and how we are all inextricably connected to all things....something that can be alluded to with thoughts and emotions but which thoughts and emotions themselves are inadequate in so far as providing the solution.
The solution is already there, it always has been, most things exist because they are in harmony with it, but humans are in a part of their evolutionary process where they have to realise that they have overdone the creativity as far as thoughts and emotions go.
Surrendering one's volition to someone who can show the way how to do that and actually become truly normal ( which requires accepting that one exists and thrives only because of forces beyond one's control that one has to humble down to ) is always going to be necessary a) because anyone who can do that for others, be they a somatic therapist or a Yoga teacher (one who teaches someone how to realise the state of Yoga that is central to the existence of all things ) that person is doing it out of love for all humanity, which includes love of themselves, and love is the solution
But true love also corrects by pointing out and condemning inadequacy, even in the most severe manner if necessary.
As far as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi goes, or Mrs. Shrivastava if you prefer, yes, she was tormented by what she saw hapoening around her, from childhood onwards, even what how she saw many of her followers behaving, and she said so.
Many times she tried to pass the baton on, but perhaps none felt the torment of witnessing what is happening in the world enough, or those who felt it were too crippled by it.
It was a huge burden on her to portray herself as she did, but such was her commitment to finding some way of correcting the behaviour she witnessed during and after all the struggle and conviction that went into the freedom movement in India.
And yes, a huge disappointment for her not to see her dream come true.
But she lit a flame that is spreading through the ether, every human being increasing in connection with each other, the more of whom realise that their actions and reactions perpetuate the maya of duality, setting a clear line between those who are intent perpetuating delusion through the dead end cycle of thoughts and emotions ( Bhootvidya ) and those who can see and accept that they are deluded and go beyond mental and emotional assertion to accept that their true Self is and always has been one with the divine.
Realising our full potential as human beings, to enjoy life free of distress, like children, requires wisdom, and the wisdom that is required can only come from getting past duality to what is absolute, and that absolute has to be experienced because it is absolute....what is absolute encompasses everything, and no thoughts or emotions can encompass everything absolutely.
So the experience can only come in Nirvichara.
But Nirvichara is just the beginning of the process. Full embodiment of the experience requires effort to consistently surrender attachment to thoughts and emotions.
Only then can thoughts and emotions be put to use to correct, comfort, and inspire others....but they still have to be let go of in order to have the experience.
Lots of people experience it, some only very briefly, some can feel it off and on if they put in the right effort to detach from worldly things and just be, effortlessly, but that is rare. Some are forced into it by circumstances, conscience, hardship, guilt, shame, some experience it in nature, some through children...but most do not know how to experience it permanently.
It happens effortlessly...any effort is only for letting go to what already exists within each and everyone of us and that is there to bring is into a conscious state of peaceful harmony with each other and the forces of nature.
Shri Mataji employed every angle to get people to see themselves, to confront themselves, as per the yogic tradition, not like the ego pamperers who proliferate in the marketplace today, earning their living off the gullibility of innocent seekers.
And we have all been gullible, it's normal for seekers.
Shri Mataji used my gullibility, out of love, and set me free...just like any good mother would do to distract her child from the delusion of ego, saving the child and preventing it from going on to perpetuate the delusion that keeps humanity spinning around in a cycle FOMO and insatiable wanting, suffering and aggression.
Thank you Shri Mataji, a thousand thousand million billion times, thank you,
Jai Shri Mataji 
I sincerely pray that everyone can one day come their senses and realise that everything we already need for peace to reign in humanity already exists within them, freely available at all times, effortlessly.