Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#301

[QUOTE=reaswaran;61008]Asata MA Sat Gamaya (Lead me to truth not untruth)
Tamaso MA Jyotir Gamaya (…to Light not darkness)
Mrityor MA Amritam Gamaya (to immortality not death)

Every word in Sanskrit has several meanings. That is what makes it such a rich language. The meaning needs to be derived from the context.[/QUOTE]

Let me also quote a passage from Jnana Yoga by Swami Sivananda
QUOTE "Maya is “not that”- Ma -Not , Ya- That. It is not Brahman or the solid reality that is at the back of this seeming universe and at the back of all minds and all objects, but the illusory power of Brahman.UNQUOTE

You will find the quote under the heading Maya -Chapter Creation and Maya., Life and Works of Swami Sivananda Volume 6.

#302

Then two etymologies are possible

#303

Dear Friend:

There could be persons with limited psychic abilities who attract a large number of followers. These could be termed as cults as they do not result in any spiritual uplifting of these followers, who soon either start living in a fools’ paradise or become devilish.

On the other hand, we have ordinary frauds, who have perfected their art (craft) of making people follow them. Here too are cults without any spiritual foundation.

However, there are spiritually elevated persons who do radiate positivity, kindle the spiritual goals in others and guide them too. Such persons could naturally attract a large number of followers. They are however doing their divine task selflessly. I think such followings should not be classified as cults in the normal sense.

In Yoga, the [I]“Guru-Shishya”[/I] relation is of utmost importance and a yoga aspirant should certainly seek a genuine guru. On the other hand, it is also said that if one ardently and sincerely wishes to meet one’s guru, this sincerity will draw the guru towards the aspirant.

To test if it is a (fake) cult, check three things as regards the person you are considering to be your guru: [I][B]“kanaka”[/B][/I] (involvement of money), [I][B]“kanta”[/B][/I] (attraction for opposite sex) and [I][B]“kirti”[/B][/I] (attraction for fame). If you find any of these, just say “thanks, but no thanks”.

Absence of these three aspects and presence of followers is a sure indication of the presence of a spiritual flame. Such a place would not be a cult. Seek grace and blessings here.

regards, anand

p.s. Cult awareness groups could themselves be cults. So beware of that too.

#304

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;61045]Dear Friend:

There could be persons with limited psychic abilities who attract a large number of followers. These could be termed as cults as they do not result in any spiritual uplifting of these followers, who soon either start living in a fools’ paradise or become devilish.

On the other hand, we have ordinary frauds, who have perfected their art (craft) of making people follow them. Here too are cults without any spiritual foundation.

However, there are spiritually elevated persons who do radiate positivity, kindle the spiritual goals in others and guide them too. Such persons could naturally attract a large number of followers. They are however doing their divine task selflessly. I think such followings should not be classified as cults in the normal sense.

In Yoga, the [I]“Guru-Shishya”[/I] relation is of utmost importance and a yoga aspirant should certainly seek a genuine guru. On the other hand, it is also said that if one ardently and sincerely wishes to meet one’s guru, this sincerity will draw the guru towards the aspirant.

To test if it is a (fake) cult, check three things as regards the person you are considering to be your guru: [I][B]“kanaka”[/B][/I] (involvement of money), [I][B]“kanta”[/B][/I] (attraction for opposite sex) and [I][B]“kirti”[/B][/I] (attraction for fame). If you find any of these, just say “thanks, but no thanks”.

Absence of these three aspects and presence of followers is a sure indication of the presence of a spiritual flame. Such a place would not be a cult. Seek grace and blessings here.

regards, anand

p.s. Cult awareness groups could themselves be cults. So beware of that too.[/QUOTE]

How do you know your teacher knows his stuff - because he is he celibate, not asking for money, and not seeking fame?

Do you consider him your guru or teacher?

#305

[QUOTE=The Scales;61050]How do you know your teacher knows his stuff - because he is he celibate, not asking for money, and not seeking fame?

Do you consider him your guru or teacher?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

Guru need not be celibate. There are Gurus with family who can said to be spiritual householders. What I said is the person should not be attracted towards the opposite sex.

Money and fame are for the worldly and materialistic person. A person with interest in either of them cannot be Guru. At the most, He/ she can be a teacher of sorts.

Regarding “knowing the stuff”, I mentioned that, subject to the above aspects, if the person has followers, then it means many people are experiencing the [I][B]“guru-tattwa”[/B][/I] in him / her. They are there because by observing their own changes even in their day to day life, they know that they are advancing spiritually.

It is known in Yoga that such [I]“Vairagya”[/I] (dispassion) goes hand in hand with spiritual elevation. THE sign of a potential Guru. (Of course, laziness or [I]“tama”[/I] should not be confused with dispassion).

Still, you could question such person on points of knowledge and see if the response is based on sound principles and / or touches you within.

Even after accepting a person as Guru, one can raise questions. A real Guru takes such questioning as Service received from the aspirant.

regards, anand

#306

[QUOTE=reaswaran;61011]Let me also quote a passage from Jnana Yoga by Swami Sivananda
QUOTE "Maya is “not that”- Ma -Not , Ya- That. It is not Brahman or the solid reality that is at the back of this seeming universe and at the back of all minds and all objects, but the illusory power of Brahman.UNQUOTE

You will find the quote under the heading Maya -Chapter Creation and Maya., Life and Works of Swami Sivananda Volume 6.[/QUOTE]

Dear Easwaran,

I somewhat mentioned the same a month before in this thread. I am quoting the same in the following lines. However, I found lots of otherwise replies.

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;56219]Scriptures say MAYA is Saguna Brahman. I may be wrong. I am not an expert in scriptures.

It is the karmic cycle which leads one to these cults and it is also the same karmic cycle that removes the veil of MAYA.

Servam Brahmamayam![/QUOTE]

#307

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;61056]Dear Easwaran,

I somewhat mentioned the same a month before in this thread. I am quoting the same in the following lines. However, I found lots of otherwise replies.[/QUOTE]

Of course.

#308

[QUOTE=Anand Kulkarni;61053]Dear Friend:

Guru need not be celibate. There are Gurus with family who can said to be spiritual householders. What I said is the person should not be attracted towards the opposite sex.
[/QUOTE]

So they should not be attracted to thier wives? Or they should be attracted to the opposite sex?

Money and fame are for the worldly and materialistic person. A person with interest in either of them cannot be Guru. At the most, He/ she can be a teacher of sorts.

What if there is need of fame and affluence to fulfill thier svadharma? Therefor their motivation for fame and affluence arises from alturism and not from selfish egoism? Those motivated by alturism cannot be guru? Then the question arises. How do you tell from which springs thier motivation? The clever fraud will pretend it’s from alturism - but yet he has multiple rolls royces, and a ‘business’. Which he will undoubtedly have a plausible excuse for.

Regarding “knowing the stuff”, I mentioned that, subject to the above aspects, if the person has followers, then it means many people are experiencing the [I][B]“guru-tattwa”[/B][/I] in him / her. They are there because by observing their own changes even in their day to day life, they know that they are advancing spiritually.

There are many people who are considered ‘gurus’ - and have many followers - who are not truly gurus. They are usually good actors skilled in speech and the control of others. They ‘sound’ like they know. But they do not.

It is known in Yoga that such [I]“Vairagya”[/I] (dispassion) goes hand in hand with spiritual elevation. THE sign of a potential Guru. (Of course, laziness or [I]“tama”[/I] should not be confused with dispassion).

Dispassion - can be cultivated like any other qualtiy. Therefore anyone can cultivate that quality. Like an actor preparing a role.

Still, you could question such person on points of knowledge and see if the response is based on sound principles and / or touches you within.

If your ‘sound principles’ or "touches you within’ are not based upon truth - but fancy and fiction - when the parrot speaks with words you have identified as truth - but in reality they are not - they will resonate - even if delusion.

Even after accepting a person as Guru, one can raise questions. A real Guru takes such questioning as Service received from the aspirant.

A real guru selects you and not the other way around. BUt this can be true of the fake as well - so you see we have a real problem here.

So how do you tell?

#309

[QUOTE=The Scales;61065]
So how do you tell?[/QUOTE]

This makes me curious - how would The Scales tell?

#310

The Phrase goes “when the pupil is ready the teacher appears.”

The Phrase doesn’t go “when the pupil is curious they go find a teacher.”

#311

[QUOTE=The Scales;61065]So they should not be attracted to thier wives? Or they should be attracted to the opposite sex?

What if there is need of fame and affluence to fulfill thier svadharma? Therefor their motivation for fame and affluence arises from alturism and not from selfish egoism? Those motivated by alturism cannot be guru? Then the question arises. How do you tell from which springs thier motivation? The clever fraud will pretend it’s from alturism - but yet he has multiple rolls royces, and a ‘business’. Which he will undoubtedly have a plausible excuse for.

There are many people who are considered ‘gurus’ - and have many followers - who are not truly gurus. They are usually good actors skilled in speech and the control of others. They ‘sound’ like they know. But they do not.

Dispassion - can be cultivated like any other qualtiy. Therefore anyone can cultivate that quality. Like an actor preparing a role.

If your ‘sound principles’ or "touches you within’ are not based upon truth - but fancy and fiction - when the parrot speaks with words you have identified as truth - but in reality they are not - they will resonate - even if delusion.

A real guru selects you and not the other way around. BUt this can be true of the fake as well - so you see we have a real problem here.

So how do you tell?[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I had tried to list out the signs of a person whose consciousness is always turned inwards. There could be fakes/ actors as you have pointed out.

One may also trace the lineage or the tradition or the [I]parampara[/I] which has preceded the present person. One could step in where there is a sound [I]“Guru Parampara”.[/I] Sudden independent Avatars may exist, but it would be risky to trust one’s own judgement in this regard.

Also, if after a year, even after devotedly following the instructions of the Guru, one does not experience any progress (at least a small movement towards equanimity), one should consider another Guru.

A real Guru selects, that’s right, but he tests only to find out if the aspirant is ardent, sincere and persistent. In today’s world, an aspirant with such qualities may also approach the Guru.

regards, anand

p.s. If I may ask, have you met your Guru?

#312

Lets just say “I am advised.”

[I]and[/I]

It’s more of a refresher course.

#313

“What I said is the person should not be attracted towards the opposite sex.”

It is only because one has become a slave to one’s own mind, that one would feel the desire to do such a thing. And on one hand - the traditions which you are parotting have been constantly saying that everything is divine, there is nothing in existence which is not divine. And yet on the other hand, most of them have been repressing the woman, telling you to avoid contact with the opposite sex. There is a very good reason for it - because most of those traditions are basically projections of a patriarchal mind, it is not a coincidence that they have all repressed the woman. Traditionally, the woman has never had much place in the spiritual sciences, and even a man like Gautama Buddha was very much reluctant to accept women into his sangha.

The fact is that if you are capable of living out of awareness, then everything can be enjoyed without restriction. Liberation is such, that regardless of what you are doing, nothing can become a barrier to your freedom. The water cannot wet it, and the fire cannot burn it. And if your freedom is something which is at the mercy of something as simple as attraction to the opposite sex, which is a natural desire, then it is not freedom at all. And it is in fact nature’s intention for you to be attracted to the opposite sex, man is by nature supposed to be sexual. Because without sex, there can be no possibility of survival of the species. The problem is not sexual desire, it is simply that because one has been living out of unawareness, that one is unable to experience it without becoming a slave to one’s desires, without becoming entangled. Because of this - right from the beginning many traditions have been telling you to simply avoid it altogether. And that can be useful just as a temporary method. But the fact is that the more one represses one’s sexual desires is not the more one becomes free of it, on the contrary it shifts down into your unconscious and gathers energy there.

#314

The Birth of Religion
We used to think agriculture gave rise to cities and later to writing, art, and religion. Now the world?s oldest temple suggests the urge to worship sparked civilization.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text

#315

Both a cult and a lifestyle need dedication and commitment, but a healthy lifestyle including yoga practice sounds better and a little lighter than a cult, which gives a heavy feeling

#316

But the fact is that the more one represses one’s sexual desires is not the more one becomes free of it, on the contrary it shifts down into your unconscious and gathers energy there.

Dear friend:

Mind, Prana and veerya are interconnected. Please investigate your remark with reference to yoga aspirants.

Regards, anand

#317

Anand,

Nature has not created man to be celibate, it is simply a fact. In fact, that would be
a tremendous threat to the survival of the species, nature has made it certain that man should not be celibate to ensure his survival. And the possibility of his living life as a celibate is just as that of one trying to create a third arm. Yes, you may manage not to have sex, but you will remain sexually repressed. It may be useful as just a temporary means to gather your energies and channel them in a certain direction, but as a way of life it is absolutely disasterous. If you think this matter to be essential, then you are just clinging to the corpse of tradition. The problems of man’ sufferings have nothing whatsoever to do with something as superficial as whether he releases fluid from his body or not. The problem is simply that he has remained asleep - in a deep unconsciousness. And no amount of celibacy is going to help transform oneself from sleep to wakefulness, from ignorance to wisdom.

“Please investigate your remark with reference to yoga aspirants.”

If you think that my statement has no relevance to yoga aspirants, then you have not understood my statement. And it is not just relevant to yogis. If you are human - then it is relevant to you.

#318

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62465]Anand,

Nature has not created man to be celibate, it is simply a fact. In fact, that would be
a tremendous threat to the survival of the species, nature has made it certain that man should not be celibate to ensure his survival. And the possibility of his living life as a celibate is just as that of one trying to create a third arm. Yes, you may manage not to have sex, but you will remain sexually repressed. It may be useful as just a temporary means to gather your energies and channel them in a certain direction, but as a way of life it is absolutely disasterous. If you think this matter to be essential, then you are just clinging to the corpse of tradition. The problems of man’ sufferings have nothing whatsoever to do with something as superficial as whether he releases fluid from his body or not. The problem is simply that he has remained asleep - in a deep unconsciousness. And no amount of celibacy is going to help transform oneself from sleep to wakefulness, from ignorance to wisdom.

“Please investigate your remark with reference to yoga aspirants.”

If you think that my statement has no relevance to yoga aspirants, then you have not understood my statement. And it is not just relevant to yogis. If you are human - then it is relevant to you.[/QUOTE]

Dear Friend:

I am sure all, including the sanyasis know that sex is a natural urge built in to ensure the survival and propagation of a species. A lot of pleasure with the involvement of all the senses is therefore a part of this activity.

However, this is essentially a process of [B]devolution[/B]/ descent of consciousness from spirit to soul. Yoga is a science and a way of life available only to humans having potential to reverse the process and gain ascendance of consciousness. Hence this difficult thing about celibacy.

As regards preservation of species, Manu Smruti gives the allowable times for engaging in sex. This may however not gel with “liberal”/ hedonistic minds.

If you have a Guru, please do pray to him/her in this regard.

Regards, anand

#319

Anand is correct. To practice any spiritual path, temperance in regards to sexual expression is always advised. There are many reasons for this, most of which are obvious.

#320

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62499]Anand is correct. To practice any spiritual path, temperance in regards to sexual expression is always advised. There are many reasons for this, most of which are obvious.[/QUOTE]

dear friend:

I would like to take this (subject of celibacy) further into the realms of yoga science. I quote Swami Vishnu Tirtha Maharaj in this regard:

"Semen, the male impregnating fluid is called [I]Shukra[/I] and also [I]Vindu[/I] in sanskrit and the fluid discharged by ovaries of females, which when combined with the spermatozoa of the male semen, develops instantly into an ovum of the embryo, is called [I]Raja[/I] and is also regarded as [I]Vindu.[/I]

Ovaries of the female are glands similar to the testes of the male genital glands. the science of yoga informs us that [I]Raja[/I] is also present in the males, but in an undeveloped condition and is situated in the region of the perinium, known to yogis as [I]Yoni-sthan.[/I]

Similarly, [I]shukra[/I] in undeveloped condition is present in the females. Thus [I]shukra and raja[/I] both exist in the bodies of bothe males and females. [B]A yogi combines the two oppositely charged fluids in one’s own system and starts the evolutionary process.[/B]

[B]Union of [I]Shukra and Raja[/I] [B]outside[/B] one’s body, i.e. within the womb of a female produces an offspring; but within one’s own system, starts the evolution of the involved [I]Prana Shakti[/I], which in stages, evolves into [I]soma,[/I] the highest [I]vindu[/I] in the cerebellum. [I]Soma[/I] in turn, brings [I]samadhi[/I] through merging of mind and [I]prana[/I] into the Self.[/B]"

I hope this throws enough light on the importance of celibacy (to a yogi of course).

regards, anand