Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)


#321

“However, this is essentially a process of devolution/ descent of consciousness from spirit to soul.”

Without having come to any direct experience at all - you have already assumed that there is such a “soul” or a “spirit”. Whether there is or is not is not relevant - but you are speaking of something which has not entered into the realm of your own perception.

“Yoga is a science and a way of life available only to humans having potential to reverse the process and gain ascendance of consciousness. Hence this difficult thing about celibacy.”

And there are those who have remained celibate and have remained as unconscious and asleep as they have always been. There are those, on the other hand, who have not remained celibate and have become awakened. If you think your enlightenment has anything to do with being celibate or not celibate - you have missed the heart of the matter.


#322

Anand,

“I would like to take this (subject of celibacy) further into the plains of yoga science. I quote Swami Vishnu Tirtha Maharaj in this regard:”

Drop your quoting, and resurrect your own voice. What Swami Vishnu Tirtha may have said has no relevance as far as your own understanding is concerned.


#323

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62509]“However, this is essentially a process of devolution/ descent of consciousness from spirit to soul.”

Without having come to any direct experience at all - you have already assumed that there is such a “soul” or a “spirit”. Whether there is or is not is not relevant - but you are speaking of something which has not entered into the realm of your own perception.

“Yoga is a science and a way of life available only to humans having potential to reverse the process and gain ascendance of consciousness. Hence this difficult thing about celibacy.”

And there are those who have remained celibate and have remained as unconscious and asleep as they have always been. There are those, on the other hand, who have not remained celibate and have become awakened. If you think your enlightenment has anything to do with being celibate or not celibate - you have missed the heart of the matter.[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

Pl read post no 320. I cannot say anything further on this.

Regards, anand


#324

“To practice any spiritual path, temperance in regards to sexual expression is always advised. There are many reasons for this, most of which are obvious.”

Gori,

It is not temperance in regards to sexual expression which has been advised, it is awareness. Because one is ordinarily a slave to various cravings, it has been recommended to help harness your attention. Otherwise, where there is awareness, there is no problem. In fact there are many methods which use sexual intercourse as a means towards ones enlightenment. That is why in the tantric sciences, before one would be initiated into such methods - the disciple would have to first demonstrate that he has already come to enormous mindfulness and understanding, to ensure that one will not get entangled.

As far as the methods for transformation - no single approach is absolute, nor single method is absolute - there are only relative skillful means.


#325

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;62510]Anand,

“I would like to take this (subject of celibacy) further into the plains of yoga science. I quote Swami Vishnu Tirtha Maharaj in this regard:”

Drop your quoting, and resurrect your own voice. What Swami Vishnu Tirtha may have said has no relevance as far as your own understanding is concerned.[/QUOTE]

dear friend:

will you believe me if i claim that this is from my own experience? The message from great yogis like Swami Vishnu Tirth Maharaj is not to be thrown away by the wise.

regards, anand


#326

Anand, join us at our discussion Yoga: Sex vs Celibacy, here;

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/yoga-and-sex-vs-celibacy-8342.html


#327

[QUOTE=GORI YOGINI;62522]Anand, join us at our discussion Yoga: Sex vs Celibacy, here;

http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/yoga-and-sex-vs-celibacy-8342.html[/QUOTE]

Dear friend:

Thanks, I have posted the same thoughts there.
Regards, anand


#328

Brahma Kumaris (Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University / Raja Yoga)
Sahaja Yoga
Siddha Yoga (Muktananda / Gurumayi Chidvilasananda)
Self Realization Fellowship (Paramahansa Yogananda)
Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science & Philosophy
Transcendental Meditation (based on Raja Yoga)
Elan Vital (Divine Light Mission)
Dahn Yoga
etc etc

this list is so widely divergent i’m not sure where to begin. maybe a metaphor–it is as if you were to list a group of possible real ducks to define the water fowl for someone who doesn’t know what a ‘duck’ is and you were to list it like this…

Mallard duck
Canadian Goose
decoy duck
Daffy duck
rubber ducky

Your list is swinging this badly from one extreme to the next. The existence of the rubber ducky doesn’t make the Mallard duck a less beautiful bird. It’s just that rubber ducky is only useful for bath time :wink: Seeking beyond the body and mind is a pretty hard-core endeavor. No time to waste on fluffer- nutter (ya know, that marshmallow spread from the 70’s?). Some of the groups you mention above seem to offer the seed of a genuine path–Even with those you would need to have the intelligence and discipline to know how to apply it. Others are just more ‘blind leading the blind’ belief in utter nonsense. Still others are pure business–opportunism. Which is which is for you to use your intelligence, look into it and see.


#329

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56062]

The fact is that anything at all which deviates from the commonly accepted standards of the society is going to be called a “cult”, even though the whole humanity consists of so many cults. But ordinarily, what is more commonly accepted, you do not call it a “cult”. Nobody has ever heard of somebody calling the democratic party a cult, or communists a cult, even though they are just as much cults as anything else.

[B]What is important is not whether something is a “cult” or not, but whether any group or community consists of individuals who are conscious and awake[/B].[/QUOTE]

I agree with the first part, but the bolded part needs further explanation Because there are levels of consciousness, and awareness. (I am not using your word, awake, as the term is more black and white - awarness can have limits and extent, awakenness less so) So what is the level of consciusness what could differentiate between a group being cultist, or not ? And from the relativism of this level, we could arrive to the idea, that perhaps not this level is really important, but … the relation of the individual to the group he/she has chosen to be part of. And based on the freedom of this choice, what, by the way, should be a constant, ever renewing one, meaning that the individual should scrutinize from time to time his/her appartenence to the group, his/her motives, reasons, expectations and renew his/her adherence to the group. If we put up this requirement, that of being able to discern, form judgement on his/her own, and relate freely to the group based on a conviction based on understanding, than sadly, we must admit your conclusion, that each of us are, at least partially, and in various domains of our lives, cultists. Or, at least, we are so, to the extent of our acceptance of the social, familial, ethnic, gender based limitations, without ever questioning them. Did you ever thought about how being a man, or a woman is actually being a member of a cult ? That there are travesties, shows, that this is not a biological limitation, but very much an assumed, accepted, enacted role of membership. Yet so many times I find that perhaps as a response to centuries of patristic dogmatism, proponents of the Goddess emerge with a strong feminist verve, and I have to question myself … on what level does this opposition takes really place ?

Aside from philosophycal depths, being part of a cult, as I have witnessed it from the inside, assumes, that there is a certain set of axioma, or dogma; rules and believes the group accepts without ever questioning them. Usually these cults are built on the trinity of Master, Way, and Community. There is a Master, a leader, whom is accepted by the members of the group as their leader based on his/her wisdom, strenght, charisma, whose guidance is usually is unquestioned, what leads to the Way, on what the member is expected to advance, and there is the fraternity with other likeminded individuals. All this to work, certain disposition of the members, disciples have to be present; one must be able to accept or admit, that there can be individuals better than myself, and not just marginally, but by a measure so great that my own comprehension fails justifying his/her actions. This leads usually to the Master being withdrawn, and granting audiences and personal guidance, but this is performed in relative secrecy. Discussion of what takes place in this seclusion is discouraged. It also takes a certain level of zeal, to believe that what we desire the most must be true, leading to the prejudice that the members of the group are elect and select (the chosen), better than others, the unitiated. These gropus seek to differentiate themselves from the gentiles, or lay people by clothing, various rituals, diet, and so on. Now, there is place for error even in the most genuine and well intentioned groups, or schools, so the above things do not suffice in the asessment of the real value of such a group or cult.
Yet, the more present and emphasised are the external aspects of the Master, the Way, and the Community, the more we can assume the lack of the inner, more meaningful qualities.

There was a time, when humanity was led entirely by superhuman figures (avatars), but this is no longer the case, and it’s examples today can be deemed atavistic. The time now is for smaller yet more strong communities, created by free and strong in themselves individuals. Not being born from a personal weakness to be led, but from the strong personal will to perform service of humanity. There still are and always will be more advanced individuals, but they know the best, that the time of authority has passed, the time of the law has passed, and the time for love, comprehension, and free search for the divine has come. In this context, the Master cannot be but a partner, at most. The rteal Mater will not command, but He will ask you for help. And indeed, what can be more motivating, inspiring, than there is really need even for our limted powers ?


#330

Hii,

Although I have never practised YOGA but i always believe in GOD and my opinion is that there is a power which is inside every human being and also which is working in this whole universe who has made this SUN, MOON, STARS and so many wonderful things and this is alsio the truth that untill or unless there is SUN and Moon in this sky there is a power of GOD which is with us and watching everyone’s deed.So, “yoga” according to me should be something through which we can get a connection with GOD.
Here I would also like to quote that as has been mentioned above by Mr. Aamir, Scale and Suryadev, an enlightened one can be recognised by the way he talks to other and present himself in front of others. Usually an enlightened one must have some sense. he should listen to others also and untill or unless anyone has not seen that power one has no right to talk some organisation or group bad or cult or fraud group. so, I am really impressed with Mr. aamir and scale’s quotes. I request u to kindly tell me abt wt u r practising as I feel the truth in practical experience not in literature and all because those all scriptures were written by the human beings (enlightened souls), most of the things written there are correct but not all because Human beings can not decide GOD’S work. GOD is free from all these things he can do whatever he wants he can anytime come on this earth to take the test of all of us if we recognise him or not. If we have the tendency to deny everything and opose everyone s believe we are destroying ourselves not anyone else. we are wasting our own time. so realisation and recognisition of the truth is very important… :slight_smile:

Thank you


#331

[QUOTE=MindNinja;57926]Seeker 33 I have a very good contact that can get you Red & Green Chillies in bulk, as much as you want. Please private message me if interested, they are best quality.

Moving away from Sahaja Yoga nonsense, which incidentally has only around 5000 followers Worldwide!!! In Shri Mataji’s 30+ years of Sahaja Yoga that was all she managed to attract! Anyone with common sense stayed away from cool breezes, severe flatulence, spells with chillies & paper, etc.

[B]What is it that makes sane rational Intelligent people believe in such things? [/B] That is the key question.

Go tell any average person in the West about Sahaja Yoga - tell them everything what they are really getting into i.e. soon they will be doing strange magic spells and rituals with chillies, turds, paper, etc; having to do protective Bandahns just to function normally etc; and develop an acute fear if they leave bad things or illnesses will befall them. [B]They would run a mile!!! Hence 5000 probably less followers in the entire world. [/B]

Same with any Cult, if Scientology told you everything about Ron Hubbard’s history, in the future you will be believing in Intergalastic warlords and aliens, and these aliens body thetans are the source of all man’s problems - [B]you would naturally run a mile!!![/B]

But of course they don’t, and gradually lure you in and indoctrinate you. With Scientology of course they keep making you pay for more very expensive courses. As well as doing auditing and lots of other things to really condition you to become dependent on them.

[B]It it is still AMAZING the way they convince people some of whom would normally be sceptical, overtime that they have found the truth and to believe in it all without question. [/B][/QUOTE]

MIND NINZA: I dont know abt Sahajyoga but I am really surprised on your such a way of presenting your views, you are discussing abt yoga and such words like nonscense you are using, really shameful and surprising, a person who even has little sense and knowledge abt yoga can not write such words to any of the Group and abt any or the personality, a common person or a person haveing little faith on GOD and YOGA is supposed to be very calm and listener and this is world wide fact that Lemon and chillies are used to remove the negativities of the house or of yourselves as we use Coconut for the devi pujan. First you should improve your way of speaking then after you will be able to talk to any yogi whatever yoga he belongs to.

Seeker 33: Whatever u r practising shows your calm behaviour. it is good that u r not like these ppl who instead of listening and understanding the things keep making fun. Good Luck to you and also I wud like to tell you one thing if some one is opposing your thoughts continuously is not harming you but harming themselves. it is better you stop sharing your thoughts with such ppl. dont beat your head on a wall. what I understand is truth remains truth whether someone accepts or not.


#332

[QUOTE=akansharoi;67669]Seeker 33: Whatever u r practising shows your calm behaviour. it is good that u r not like these ppl who instead of listening and understanding the things keep making fun. Good Luck to you and also I wud like to tell you one thing if some one is opposing your thoughts continuously is not harming you but harming themselves. it is better you stop sharing your thoughts with such ppl. dont beat your head on a wall. what I understand is truth remains truth whether someone accepts or not.[/QUOTE]Thanks, Enjoy:
821009 Public Program, Cambridge


#334

The real problem is the word “cult” which one generally associates with a negative connotation and hence the strong reactions. The deeper question is - Can a “school of thought” lead to Enlightenment or that utopia that one seeks? Did Buddhism create more Buddhas? Or did Jainism create more Mahaviras? Can enlightenment be had by following? It seems “following” results in shutting out our own individual enquiries, something essential to move towards that state. Instead we take refuge in the shelter of rules, dictums and methods. These give us a security, a kind of ‘license’ to say we are on the right track. The reality may be totally different… Perhaps when we realize that Insecurity is the only thing that is certain, can we start moving towards that state.


#335

Akansharoi, [I]‘I dont know abt Sahajyoga’ [/I]- says it all, go read up on them then talk. You forget some groups are cults and some of them have hijacked the word Yoga for marketing purposes.

http://www.sahajacult.com/ Read that for starters.

I’ve been to meetings of Sahaja Yoga know all about it first hand. Go read some of the crazy claims & sayings of the founder, then talk.

Sahaja Yoga was founded around 1970 in 40 years it managed to again just a few thousand followers, around 5000 worldwide today - people aren’t stupid & most run a mile once they know what they are getting into, hence such a small membership.

Tagging the term ‘Yoga’ onto a group name does not mean it is legit or not a cult, nor does it necessiate it really is Yoga.


#337

I would like to share my personal experiences with Sahaja Yoga.

When I was twelve I first asked myself, what is God, who am I, and what is [I]this[/I] ?
Gradually I started to grow and I studied those who I respected, but I felt a need to be carefull and searched with an approach that everything must be verified within.
I continued to seek and grow.

When I was 16, I stayed at a friends house and (unknowingly to me) he was a Sahaja Yogi. When I stayed in the guest room I noticed a picture of an Indian Women (Shri Mataji). I asked about it and so my friend gave me a documentary about Her which I watched at home, but I did not pay much more attention to it after.

A couple of days later, my Kundalini rose spontaneously. During the day I felt like my perception had suddenly changed. The same evening, I stumbled upon a paragraph of the Bible, the acts of the Apostles chapter 2 which describes a wind that sits in each Apostle. As I read the paragraph, I felt an energy rise through my body emiting a [I]breeze out of both my hands and out the top of my head in a circular shape.[/I] . After the experience, I walked around for a couple of days a bit confused, but my entire paradigm had changed. At first I thought maybe I had hypnotised myself, but clearly a transformation had taken place and I would continue to often feel my Kundalini working.
After about a week I felt the need to tell someone so I told that friend of mine what I had experienced, surprised he shared with me a link of Sahaja Yoga and I read an exact description of what I had felt.

That was 5 years ago. Since then Sahaja Yoga has helped me grow on many levels. I have left many addictions behind, I have developed better relationships with all my family, my school had suddenly improved dramatically, I was much more effective in general, more peaceful, consistent, happier and innocent. Do I owe this to Sahaja Yoga? Yes absolutely. Have I seen the same thing happen to people around me such as friends and family? Yes.

I had the chance last year to see Shri Mataji in person. That to me got rid of any doubts of my mind. When Sahaja Yogi’s talk about a cool breeze, it is not changes in the air or anything, I have felt my Kundalini rise outside with strong winds and I could feel the difference between the [I]wind[/I] emerging from my hands from my Kundalini and that of the surrounding winds. This breeze is very specific and is felt when one’s kundalini goes through the Sahasrara.

There is so much negativity in this thread against Sahaja Yoga so I decided to briefly share this as I am clearly an outsider.

So in short I don’t really get what a cult is as from my understanding almost anything can be defined as one. I do not think Sahaja Yoga is dangerous at all, on the contrary based on my own experiences and searching it is the most effective way for spiritual growth. To be honest, I don’t really mind what it is labelled, as I will be forever grateful no matter what others say…

May God Bless you all.


#338

Anyone see Martha Marcy May Marlene? Aachan James’ revolving door cult isn’t as disturbing, but there are elements of a scam factory in his enterprise that feed on open minded yoga students . He smokes like a chimney, preaches non friendly interaction in class while always trying to procure his next household slave. He and his wife give a negative vibe, take advantage both financially and sexually of their students. Class is all talk. He obviously lost his way. Be wise, pick another Guru!


#339

It is astounding to read things from former SRF Members who have such terrible tales to tell.

I was an SRF Member many years ago but it was never for me. Once the information was obtained that was the end of it.

I guess one could call SRF and any other group that calls itself a Church and teaches it’s version of Yoga a cult that teaches yoga, that is not just Hatha or exercise type Yoga, but I think that would not be correct to do.

The word CULT has an ugly negative connotation.

Rather it is up to the individual and just how caught up in any organized Human effort that they become and weather or not it has a beneficial or non beneficial effect on the life or lives of the members.

This should determine if a organized meeting of people engaged in like activities and similar beliefs is a CULT or not.


#340

I agree with yama-He and his wife are obviously just in it for the money. They will tell you how why they need the money so you can get pressured into making a bad decision.

I hope his pupils wake up and see the light someday, also I hope most people don’t believe what most gurus say and be very skeptical of what’s they’re going to sign up for.


#341

Brahma Kumaris is deifnetely a cult, a cult that offers free meditation and then isolate you from your real family. And you wont get anything in return regardless how long you have served them.
you can watch the video or read the article wht’s going on there

Brahma Kumaris Expose

Article


#342

I am watching Wild, Wild Country on Netflix abd Bagwan Rajneesh.

Wow!! How did I not know about this back then??