Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#39

“Hindu scriptures teach you the sciences. They are more useful to us because they give us scientific knowledge in all fields.”

There are so many things in the Vedas which are entirely unscientific, they were still entangled in this superstitious idea that if you are inflicted with a certain illness, or if you are insane, it is not because of anything scientific, but you are possessed by certain demons and devils which have to be cast out. If you were insane, then you were taken to a Brahmin in a temple who would try to excorcise the demon out of you, and if that did not work, you were beaten. Most of the rituals of Hinduism are filled with this same kind of fanatic dogmatism, that by performing certain rituals in the right way, or by performing animal sacrifices, that somehow you are going to please the deities who will work in your favor. The Vedas itself declares itself to be a revelation from God, which is just a hallucination of their authors. There is no “God” in the sense of a Supreme Being which is created in one’s own image, and like every other religion which has been clinging to the idea of God, one has projected qualities of one’s own mind.

You don’t know what you are talking about :wink: You have not read the Vedic corpus you fraud, but you still talk like you are an expert on them :wink: We have already proven that all you have done is read a bad translation of the Vedas on sacred-text.com, and now you think you know it all :wink: I have read 5 different translations, and read them myself with a Sanskrit dictionary. I did this for a year. Your knowledge on Hinduism will not match up to mine. I have studied Hinduism for 10 years and read 100 books by scholars on it. Actually, even your knowledge of spirituality will not match up to mine. Don’t you see how many cults I have attended :wink:

You’re a wannabe cult founder and leader. Half of the forum knows you are a wannabe.

#40

“Amir, you know that I do not consider you an authority.”

That is fine, I am not interested in being considered as an authority.

“You deny everybody else, every expert, every enlightened master who has gone before you.”

Not everybody, only those who were not enlightened. And one may find it difficult to believe, but many of those who are considered masters are not really masters at all. All that is needed for somebody to be considered enlightened is for him to fulfill ones own ideas about how an enlightened one should be. For the Jews, Moses is enlightened just as Jesus is enlightened for the Christians. There were even some Germans who had considered Adolf Hitler enlightened. Anybody who fulfills your own projections as to how a master should be can be considered awakened. But whether they are really awakened or not is something entirely different. Entering into deep states of samadhi does not mean that you are awakened either, and to find yogis who can enter into samadhi is just as common as finding heat in the summer. One has to understand that what one is calling “enlightenment” are just ones own relative ideas about it. That is why those who have really come to their awakening have done away with the idea completely, even enlightenment is another idea that is to be emptied out.

#41

“I have read 5 different translations, and read them myself with a Sanskrit dictionary. I did this for a year. Your knowledge on Hinduism will not match up to mine. I have studied Hinduism for 10 years and read 100 books by scholars on it.”

Even if you read a hundred more, or ten thousand more, it will not bring you even a single step closer to the Truth. On the contrary, from what I have witnessed, all of ones borrowed knowledge has only helped to cloud your understanding even more.

#42

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56065]Sahaja Yoga
…
But within 2 weeks I realised it was too good to be true. I became acquainted with their pseudoscience of checking vibrations and soon realised they used this pseudoscience to push their organizational dogmas.[/QUOTE]If you want to examine something you should be like a scientist. First step in SY is to prove yourself that there is vibration and you can feel it. If you can do this, you can continue. If not you will leave SY.
We need to be honest people and there is no need to deny truth. The MAIN difference between SY and others yoga?s is that SY was able to awaken your Kundalini Shakti and in this way you can feel vibrations/All Pervading power/.

#43

What you are calling “Buddhism” is just an umbrella term for many different philosophies and belief systems which come under that category

No, what I call Buddhism is a term to describe an officially recognised religion. Like every religion, Buddhism has sects and each sect has slightly different interpretations. The Buddhist version of heterodoxy is Mahayana Buddhism, which does not accept the doctrine of anatman.

There are so many things in the Vedas which are entirely unscientific, they were still entangled in this superstitious idea that if you are inflicted with a certain illness, or if you are insane, it is not because of anything scientific, but you are possessed by certain demons and devils which have to be cast out.

Everybody who has heard of Ayurveda know you are speaking complete and utter garbage right now. Nope, in Vedic culture if you get an illness, they take you took to an Ayurvedic practitioner. He would examine your entire body, analyse your pulse and tongue, take a very extensive questionaire of your lifestyle, symptoms. Diagnose your prakriti(vata, pitta, kapah or combination) and your vikriti(current dosa which is out of balance) and then prescribe treatment consisting of diet, lifestyle regulations, and herbs.

Casting of demons because somebody has an illness is not a part of the Vedic treadition. But it a part of the tradition you come from: Abrahamic. Such unscientific medicine was practiced by your ancestors - not mine. We performed brain surgery for petes sake :smiley:

Stop speaking about Hinduism to me. You’re speaking to a Hindu with 10 years of study in the area. You cannot match my knowledge. I will own you at every step of the way :wink:

#44

Seeker,

If you are truly liberated with Sahaja Yoga, then remain with it. But if you find that somehow, it has still not managed to bring oneself to a contentment, that you are still unfulfilled, then you should leave it. But the problem is that to inquire with a penetrating honesty into the matter requires some courage. Human beings enjoy deceiving themselves with countless things, because man is much more interested in self-preservation rather than coming to his awakening. Naturally, if you have been following a certain stream which is false and you discover that it is false, that one has just been deceiving oneself, one of course does not want to feel like a fool. To realize that one has been wasting ones whole time can be quite painful. But if one is interested at all in ones search for Truth, then one will be struck with gratitude that another delusion has dissolved from ones vision. But it requires one to first have enough courage to inquire, and seeing how much you are attached to Sahaja Yoga, I do not see such a possibility happening anytime soon.

#45

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56329]“I have read 5 different translations, and read them myself with a Sanskrit dictionary. I did this for a year. Your knowledge on Hinduism will not match up to mine. I have studied Hinduism for 10 years and read 100 books by scholars on it.”

Even if you read a hundred more, or ten thousand more, it will not bring you even a single step closer to the Truth. On the contrary, from what I have witnessed, all of ones borrowed knowledge has only helped to cloud your understanding even more.[/QUOTE]

I see what you did there. Very slippery. But also very weak.

Why do you even bother to step with such weak sauce?

You quickly change the subject from

“if amir has indeed read the vedas, the translation he read was done by a hillbilly.”

to

“Amir’s same ol tired song and dance.”

The only person who would tell you NOT to read scripture is either an Idiot or a moron.

Maybe both.

:wink:

#46

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56334]Seeker,

If you are truly liberated with Sahaja Yoga, then remain with it. But if you find that somehow, it has still not managed to bring oneself to a contentment, that you are still unfulfilled, then you should leave it. But the problem is that to inquire with a penetrating honesty into the matter requires some courage. Human beings enjoy deceiving themselves with countless things, because man is much more interested in self-preservation rather than coming to his awakening. Naturally, if you have been following a certain stream which is false and you discover that it is false, that one has just been deceiving oneself, one of course does not want to feel like a fool. To realize that one has been wasting ones whole time can be quite painful. But if one is interested at all in ones search for Truth, then one will be struck with gratitude that another delusion has dissolved from ones vision. But it requires one to first have enough courage to inquire, and seeing how much you are attached to Sahaja Yoga, I do not see such a possibility happening anytime soon.[/QUOTE]

I also love how you follow along and copy what I do.

Can’t say your the first. I [B]know[/B] you won’t be the last.

Here’s how it’s done. I - the scales - tosses an Idea out into the audience.

I make a response to a poster.

You take my idea and then wrap it with your dry words and catch phrases and then present it again. Sometimes to the same person!

Fascinating.

#47
#48

[QUOTE=Seeker33;56330]If you want to examine something you should be like a scientist. First step in SY is to prove yourself that there is vibration and you can feel it. If you can do this, you can continue. If not you will leave SY.
We need to be honest people and there is no need to deny truth. The MAIN difference between SY and others yoga’s is that SY was able to awaken your Kundalini Shakti and in this way you can feel vibrations/All Pervading power/.[/QUOTE]

Seeker,

Let me tell you a real scientiic method that real scientists use :wink:

  1. A random patient with an ailment will be worked on by 5 randomized
    SY workers who claim they can check vibrations and diagnose. Each one will do this at different times, and the others will not know about about other.

  2. Each SY worker will provide a diagnosis and the diagnosis will be put inside a sealed and opaque envelope.

  3. At the end of the experiment the experimenter will check each diagnosis.

If the SY vibration checking method works. All diagnosis should be identical and the ailment should be detected.

Find an independent scientist from your local university to do this experiment.
Not for me, but for you. I already have got my results when I observed with my own eyes and heard with my own ears how each SY worker gave a different diagnosis when they worked on the same person. One said, your throat chakra is acting up, the other said your solar plexus chakra is acting up.

You will prove to yourself the SY vibration checking method is bunk. The experiment I have proposed is a lot more rigorous than what I did. You will have proof in your hand SY is a total fraud. Report back to me when you do :wink:

#49

“Casting of demons because somebody has an illness is not a part of the Vedic treadition.”

It is not really the case. In Hindu and Vedic mythology, there is a whole hierarchy of spirits of various different natures - Asuras, Yakshas, Vetalas, Rakshasas, Devas, and so on. That man interacts with these beings, or these beings can interact with man, is not something which is unusual in the Hindu mythology. There are even various methods as to how to use such beings to fulfill ones own desires, which is in fact the reason why all these rituals are there in Vedas. So it was not an unusual thing, that one who would be trying to control such entities, a Brahmin priest or a yogi, would be "possessed " by a certain spirit once in a while, and would have to go through a certain ceremony to expel the demon.And just as there is a heaven and a hell in Christianity and Judaism, the same is the case in Hinduism. If you have been living an impure life, then the soul would be sent by Yama, the Lord of Justice, to a Naraka , a kind of hell where the soul receives purification for its sins before it can continue in its evolution.

That the Vedic and Hindu tradition is free from these kinds of superstitions is not really the case, it is filled with all kinds of fictions. There are some rare traditions who have simply seen these various “deities” as different aspects of ones own consciousness as well as being symbolic of certain forces of nature both within and without oneself, but they have always been very rare. It is possible to become “possessed”, in the sense that a certain psychological force or an idea starts overflooding the conscious mind which may create severe imbalances in the personality, but it has nothing to do with any of these mythologies which are simply man manufactured.

#50

What is your current sadhana? I want to hear all about it. In detail.

And maybe you could give us a little background on you too?

Height, Weight and Birthday. In regards to the Birthday - only give the day and the month, do not give the year, in english please.

I'll be gone for the next couple of days so I really do look forward to reading your reply when I get back on here.

#51

There were even some Germans who had considered Adolf Hitler enlightened.

Wow, sucks, eh :wink: Even Adolf hilter was considered enlightened, but nobody considers you enlightened :wink:

You try too hard I am afraid. If you try less, you might even be able fool a few people you are enlightened and develop a small cult :wink:

#52

“Everybody who has heard of Ayurveda know you are speaking complete and utter garbage right now. Nope, in Vedic culture if you get an illness, they take you took to an Ayurvedic practitioner. He would examine your entire body, analyse your pulse and tongue, take a very extensive questionaire of your lifestyle, symptoms.”

Yes, those things would happen. And the activity of demons is not something which is separate from the Ayurvedic tradition, it is one of the possible causes of disease.

#53

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56340]If the SY vibration checking method works. All diagnosis should be identical and the ailment should be detected.[/QUOTE]If people practicing SY are well established in Nirvicalpa Samadhi they will feel the same problems. If not they will confuse their own problems with exterior problems.

#54

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56344]Wow, sucks, eh :wink: Even Adolf hilter was considered enlightened, but nobody considers you enlightened :wink:

You try too hard I am afraid. [B]If you try less, you might even be able fool a few people you are enlightened and develop a small cult[/B] ;)[/QUOTE]

I think he’s already gathering chelas to his ministry.

How Holy!

#55

[QUOTE=The Scales;56343]What is your current sadhana? I want to hear all about it. In detail. [/QUOTE]Through Nirvichar to establish Nirvikalpa. You will not be able to establish Nirvichar without awakening of Kundalini, because Laya needs to take place.

#56

[QUOTE=Seeker33;56348]Through Nirvichar to establish Nirvikalpa. You will not be able to establish Nirvichar without awakening of Kundalini, because Laya needs to take place.[/QUOTE]

Thats not detail.

I want the methods and concepts

I want the process from start to finish…

what you do

how do you do it

and

why.

#57

It is not really the case. In Hindu and Vedic mythology, there is a whole hierarchy of spirits of various different natures - Asuras, Yakshas, Vetalas, Rakshasas, Devas, and so on. That man interacts with these beings, or these beings can interact with man, is not something which is unusual in the Hindu mythology. There are even various methods as to how to use such beings to fulfill ones own desires, which is in fact the reason why all these rituals are there in Vedas. So it was not an unusual thing, that one who would be trying to control such entities, a Brahmin priest or a yogi, would be "possessed " by a certain spirit once in a while, and would have to go through a certain ceremony to expel the demon.And just as there is a heaven and a hell in Christianity and Judaism, the same is the case in Hinduism. If you have been living an impure life, then the soul would be sent by Yama, the Lord of Justice, to a Naraka , a kind of hell where the soul receives purification for its sins before it can continue in its evolution.

Indeed, there is a heirarchy of spirits. There is a story of a Yaksha possessing a sage in one of the Upanishads. However, what you are ignoring here is Ayurveda which is the oldest tradition of medicine in the Vedic tradition. You clearly have not read the Sushruta and Charaka Samhita, the two encylopedias of Ayurveda and studied at university on Ayurveda degrees. In Ayurveda three causes for disease are given: 1) Somatic 2) Seasonal and 3) Supernatural.
They are each treated in the same way. First, it is diagnosed which dosha they are affecting, and then a treatment to restore the balance of the dosha is given.

In Ayurveda and the Atharvaveda the word “Rakshasa” is called a demon but it is also a germ. Each Rakshasa is given a name, and in order to treat each one a herb is also given. Other methods mentioned are fumigation, the the sun rays, fire.

Direct citations:

Kaushitaki Brahmana 17, 4: The blood sucking germs are also called Rakshasa"
Shatapata Brahmana 7, 4, 1, 34: These Rakshasas can be killed by fire too
Rig Veda 10, 118.1: Agni, refulgent among men, thou slayest the devouring fiends(Rakshasa) = Agni kills the germs called Rakshasa

In the Charaka Samhita the word Krimi(parasite) is used in place of Rakshasa. 20 of these krimis are described, along with the diseases they cause, descriptions of what they look like and symptoms etc

That the Vedic and Hindu tradition is free from these kinds of superstitions is not really the case, it is filled with all kinds of fictions. There are some rare traditions who have simply seen these various “deities” as different aspects of ones own consciousness as well as being symbolic of certain forces of nature both within and without oneself.

There is nothing rare about it. The Devas and the Asuras are indeed aspects of the mind if you read the proper Sanskrit translation using the Nirukta. The Devas, comes from the root div, which means shining one/luminious and light. They are in the causal plane or swaha. Their effects manifest in the mental plane and the physical plane(triloka) Vedic ontology is idealist, which means that Vedas believe the entire world is actually mind only. It is all occuring in the mind. Yes, there are heaven and hell in the Vedic tradition, but they are mental planes i.e., within us. In the Abrahamic tradition they are actual places in the world, the heavens were thought to be above us. In the Vedic tradition, they are planes of reality that exist in the mind.

Aurobindo and Swami Dayananda Saraswati have given more accurate translations of the Vedas and explain what the Devas and Asuras are. Read their works and get enlightened :wink:

You are getting a free education here :wink:

#58

Sometimes I flare up my agni and blast my raksha sha sha’s too!

Only when feeling vibrations though

and after

I’ve come into the space of my own experience.