Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)


#181

For a change why can’t we leave SY and proceed few posts on “Art of Living” by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? :slight_smile:

Sorry, I do not have any personal connection with any of these cults. I always believe in getting even as little as possible directly from the scriptures and my own personal trial and error.


#182

[QUOTE=Seeker33;56996]Give a time for scientist to discover that chakras exist. [B]They don?t know about them. [/B] [/QUOTE]

The scientists are not testing for the chakras, they are testing for her claims of spiritual powers like being able to heal heart disease, cancer etc She has made several physical claims and scientists can test for physical things. She has refused all independent scientific investigations.


#183

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57000]For a change why can’t we leave SY and proceed few posts on “Art of Living” by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? :slight_smile:

Sorry, I do not have any personal connection with any of these cults. I always believe in getting even as little as possible directly from the scriptures and my own personal trial and error.[/QUOTE]

My personal opinion is Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight.


#184

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57002]My personal opinion is Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight.[/QUOTE]

I do feel the same way.


#185

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56328]“Amir, you know that I do not consider you an authority.”

That is fine, I am not interested in being considered as an authority.

“You deny everybody else, every expert, every enlightened master who has gone before you.”

Not everybody, only those who were not enlightened. And one may find it difficult to believe, but many of those who are considered masters are not really masters at all. All that is needed for somebody to be considered enlightened is for him to fulfill ones own ideas about how an enlightened one should be. For the Jews, Moses is enlightened just as Jesus is enlightened for the Christians. There were even some Germans who had considered Adolf Hitler enlightened. Anybody who fulfills your own projections as to how a master should be can be considered awakened. But whether they are really awakened or not is something entirely different. Entering into deep states of samadhi does not mean that you are awakened either, and to find yogis who can enter into samadhi is just as common as finding heat in the summer. One has to understand that what one is calling “enlightenment” are just ones own relative ideas about it. That is why those who have really come to their awakening have done away with the idea completely, even enlightenment is another idea that is to be emptied out.[/QUOTE]

I gotta agree with that. Well said Amir!


#186

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57001]The scientists are not testing for the chakras, they are testing for her claims of spiritual powers like being able to heal heart disease, cancer etc She has made several physical claims and scientists can test for physical things. [B]She has refused all independent scientific investigations.[/B][/QUOTE]Please provide ASAP certification from scientists that SY is fake.
When did SHE refuse?
Sahaja Yoga - the Meta Science
Scientific approach to Sahaja Yoga
Sahaja Yoga - Scientific Explanation
Scientific Research in the Field of Sahaja Yoga

[B]Shri Mataji receive Petrovsky Award. Appointed as Honorary Member of the Presidium of Petrovskaya Academy of Art and Science:[/B]


#187

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57000]For a change why can’t we leave SY and proceed few posts on “Art of Living” by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar? :slight_smile: [/QUOTE]With SY you can open Sahasrara.


#188

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56887]I find this hilarious. From what I know, read and seen of Osho, Osho would never do that. He did not have a devotional attitude - he was anti god/s. He never mentioned her anywhere, because she was just his insigificant devotee at the time, amongst other devotees. She learned how to manage a cult from him, then left and started her small group and was able to turn her small group into a larger group. She has a very wealthy husband. Did Osho ever even hear about her in his day?[/QUOTE]

Indeed, Osho was his own man. He was the perfect rebel. And I don’t think he deliberately intend to open a cult. Just as he said in one of his interviews with an American journalist, people ‘came’ to him, and he let them do whetever they want…this is probably why after his death, his meditation methods became kind of hokey, as people went on twisting those methods…


#189

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57008]With SY you can open Sahasrara.[/QUOTE]

Let it be open, but give chance to others also and try to understand others too. Let us not get too defensive or offensive and stuck with only one. :slight_smile:


#190

Please provide ASAP certification from scientists that SY is fake.

Please provide certification from your doctor that you are actually sane :wink:

I am talking about independent scientists here, not SY cult member scientists who fall at and kiss the feet of Shri Mataji :wink:

Anyway, she’s dead now. Nobody, really cares about SY here. SY will eventually die out. I’ve had enough :wink:


#191

I read the entire thread, Damn it took me almost an hour and a half to read it. Yet I enjoyed it :wink:

Well, lots of wise words have been said. Agree with many things, disagree with same amount.

Seeker33 :lol: how could you go on like this? If that woman is an incarnation, then Amir must be an avatar :smiley:


#192

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;57012]I am talking about independent scientists here, not SY cult member scientists who fall at and kiss the feet of Shri Mataji [/QUOTE]May be George W. Bush is SY cult member as well.


#193

[QUOTE=High Wolf;57014]Seeker33 :lol: how could you go on like this? If that woman is an [B]incarnation[/B], then Amir must be an [B]avatar [/B]:D[/QUOTE]Avatar is Sanskrit word and means incarnation.


#194

[QUOTE=Sahasrara;57011]Let it be open, but give chance to others also and try to understand others too. Let us not get too defensive or offensive and stuck with only one. :)[/QUOTE]How you can open the door, if you don?t have a key?


#195

“Various terms can be used: souls, purushas, consciousness units, jivatmans, monads, witnesses, observers, knowers.”

Whatever terms and names that can be used, they are all certain to impose limitations. All words and descriptions are just the projections of thought. To define is to limit, and ones true nature is not something that can be defined. Even to call it consciousness is to again impose a limitation upon it - consciousness is a limiting quality. All those people who were speaking of consciousness being the ultimate reality have just been fanatics, clinging to a stream of tradition and philosophy which itself was fanatic. That is where I diverge from others who have been trying to fit everything into the terminology of the philosophy in which they have been programmed. Lao Tzu has said a single statement which is of such enormous insight, that if you see into it, not just intellectually - but as an experience, then it impossible for it not to wipe away all of ones assumptions that one has been formulating up till now. Truth is of that nature - it renders all of ones knowledge irrelevant. He has said that the Tao that can be named is not the Eternal Tao.

Anything that can be said about it, is just pointing towards the Way and nothing else.

“Basically us the conscious beings(purushas) that interact with this world(prakriti)”

Drop both being, drop even non-being, and come to a direct encounter with the inexpressible.

“Samkhya darshana is all based on”

Ah, a thief !


#196

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57020]How you can open the door, if you don’t have a key?

[/QUOTE]

Dear Seeker,

I cannot open with your key. What if I tell that you need to do the following practice for one month continuously (both morning and evening) and (that is it, nothing more) you will become enlightened. Will you follow and believe? If yes, please do so and get back to me after a month.

The only difference is that all cults thrust their dogma to quell the logical abilities of the followers either silently or violently:)

You may choose this path or you can keep doing SY meditation for the whole life time, it is your choice.

The following penance may be one of the other keys :slight_smile: :

Pre-condition:

You have to memorize Hanuman Chalisa perfectly without any shudder. You need to know the meaning of each and every word clearly. You are already very good in Sanskrit. So, you may get easily Hindi words :slight_smile:

You have to memorize Gayatri Mantra perfectly and know the meaning of it clearly.

The Practice:

You need to get up early morning at 4:30 AM and complete your daily calls and sit in lotus pose and keep a Hanuman God in front of you and start chanting Hanuman Chalisa 108 times.

Again in the evening start exactly at 6:30 PM and chant Gayatri Mantra 108 times.

You should practice this for one whole month without any break. If you break one day, you have to start from the beginning :slight_smile:

Once you are done, please get back to the forum and post your experience.

Does this sound meaningless? Yes, so also following the SY method to me.

I will prefer doing this, if not 108 times in the morning and evening for a month, but at least 8 times life long, instead of praying Mata ji. Not that she is not an incarnation to you, but definitely not an incarnation to me.

Your key SY is good for you to open the door. If I use your key and try to open, it may not do any good for me :slight_smile:

However, my key is available for you to try the alternative and understand what is really opening Sahasrara :slight_smile:

Now, let us get the logical conclusion of the above lines. Following SY guidelines to open Sahasrara is as true (false) as following the above guidelines. The actual question is, do I have to blindly believe and keep doing it lifelong, if I do not see any logic in it?

The only difference is that all cults thrust their dogma to quell the logical faculties of the followers, either silently or violently :slight_smile:


#197

Surya,

"Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight. "

I agree. The man is far more of a politician than a master. That is one of the reasons why he constantly makes an effort to smile - he wants to project a certain image of being blissful. And I have heard many of his responses to questions - it seems that he is not interested at all in assisting others towards their awakening. He constantly offers sweet words to those who want to hear sweet words. Otherwise, he would not have continued saying things which are just intended to make you feel safe, comfortable, secure - giving consolation to ones ego. Because he knows very well, just being a practical man, that if he were to do such a thing - more than half of his disciples will flee from him. If he were to state things which come a bit closer to reality - then most people are not going to find it appealing because reality has no obligation to fit into your view as to how things should be. Perhaps, such an approach may be useful just as bait so that others may get caught in the hook and go deeper. Even Gautama Buddha used to mold his language according to the people to whom he was speaking - when he was speaking with Hindus he used to use the word “Atman”, even though a central part of his teaching was the opposite - “Anatman”.

But that is not Sri Sri Ravishankars approach, because in the first place he is not interested in bringing others to their awakening, nor is he awakened, he is just interested in building a reputation for himself and the foundation he represents. It is just his profession. Many “masters” are not really “masters”, they are just performing their profession. They are a bit like priests, although they do not have that title or represent an organized religion. The followers who come to the priest come to him because they believe that he has some intimate connection with God, the same is the case with those who come to these “masters”, people believe they are enlightened without a question and that is all that is needed. That is how people like Sri Sri Ravishankar, Shri Mataji, Bhagavan of the Oneness movement, and others - have been successful at obtaining more and more followers. The whole work is just the work of satisfying other people’s ego, and in this way it is not different than the way businesses function in the business world. In fact - what they are doing is just business work, they are just interested in building a reputation for their non-profit organizations - not assisting others towards their liberation.


#198

[QUOTE=Seeker33;57008]With SY you can open Sahasrara.[/QUOTE]

True, agreed.

Do you mean to say that SY is the only way? If yes, can you justify why SY is the only universal key to open Sahasrara and not others?


#199

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57025]Surya,

"Sri Sri Ravishankar is not enlightened, but naive, gullible and childish. He finds it very difficult to give spoken interviews, and I saw his performance in his debate with Zakir Naik and it was pitiable. A man who is always trying to smile, clearly has something wrong with him. I have seen his face when he’s not smiling - and it ain’t a pretty sight. "

I agree. The man is far more of a politician than a master. That is one of the reasons why he constantly makes an effort to smile - he wants to project a certain image of being blissful. And I have heard many of his responses to questions - it seems that he is not interested at all in assisting others towards their awakening. He constantly offers sweet words to those who want to hear sweet words. Otherwise, he would not have continued saying things which are just intended to make you feel safe, comfortable, secure - giving consolation to ones ego. Because he knows very well, just being a practical man, that if he were to do such a thing - more than half of his disciples will flee from him. If he were to state things which come a bit closer to reality - then most people are not going to find it appealing because reality has no obligation to fit into your view as to how things should be. Perhaps, such an approach may be useful just as bait so that others may get caught in the hook and go deeper. Even Gautama Buddha used to mold his language according to the people to whom he was speaking - when he was speaking with Hindus he used to use the word “Atman”, even though a central part of his teaching was the opposite - “Anatman”.

But that is not Sri Sri Ravishankars approach, because in the first place he is not interested in bringing others to their awakening, nor is he awakened, he is just interested in building a reputation for himself and the foundation he represents. It is just his profession. Many “masters” are not really “masters”, they are just performing their profession. They are a bit like priests, although they do not have that title or represent an organized religion. The followers who come to the priest come to him because they believe that he has some intimate connection with God, the same is the case with those who come to these “masters”, people believe they are enlightened without a question and that is all that is needed. That is how people like Sri Sri Ravishankar, Shri Mataji, Bhagavan of the Oneness movement, and others - have been successful at obtaining more and more followers. The whole work is just the work of satisfying other people’s ego, and in this way it is not different than the way businesses function in the business world. In fact - what they are doing is just business work, they are just interested in building a reputation for their non-profit organizations - not assisting others towards their liberation.[/QUOTE]

Good observation :slight_smile:


#200

How about “Patanjali Yoga Peeth” of Ramdev Baba?

Does the following link makes any sense?

Honestly, I do not have any affiliation to any of these cults, I love following scriptures and try getting as little as possible.

However, this thread is to put forth all the available information (true or false) about cults for the readers and so I am posting this. It is for the individuals to decide.