Cults In Yoga - Siddha / Brahma Kumaris / Sahaja Yoga, etc (often non physical Yoga)


#141

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56893]Seeker,
If you find that your being is fulfilled through Sahaja Yoga, then remain with it. But one should be completely straightforward with oneself and ask whether one is truly fulfilled, or whether one simply believes that one is fulfilled.[B] For this, there is no other answer except through witnessing yourself directly in daily living, seeing how you are from moment to moment.[/B] If you have enough courage, then you will see yourself as you are without any veils or decorations, without censorship, without clinging to a sense of identity. [/QUOTE]Amir,
Ocean has enormous amount of water but some people are coming only with their small cups. Divine force is fully aware of capability of each one of us and will give us amount that we can carry.

[B]Sahaja yoga is not cult, alternative medicine or method. SY is living process promised by all incarnations.[/B]


#142

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;56916]“At higher levels you have better control over your own mind and body system”

At the “higher levels”, one should first ask whether it is necessary to control one’s mind and body. [/quote]

If you do not control your mind and body, then you will simply leave it to its tendencies. It is better it is in your control, than not. Even at higher levels of consciousness you are going to have control it. At higher levels you just have more control of your mind-body system.

Nothing is going to happen, unless you will it. Your body will not go on auto pilot and go shopping for you :wink:

Is that really the case ? Do you operate the atoms which make the body, or the subatomic particles which make the atoms of the body ? Are you even in control of something as simple as how your blood flows through your veins ? What of the need to eat food, or the need to drink water ? Or if you cut a peice of hair, are you in control of whether it grows back or not ? If you are in control of the aging process of your cells, then why haven’t you averted death completely ? No yogi so far has managed to avoid physical death. Even more so, all of the conditions which have made life on Earth possible have much to do with the energy that travels to the Earth from the Sun. Are you in control of the Sun, or how the Earth revolves around the Sun ?

Nope, I am not in control of the atoms and subatomic particles. Blood flowing through my vein. Aging. The orbit of the solar system, etc. These are all processes that operate by their own tendencies. However, it is already proven that at higher levels of consciousness, things that were erstwhile outside of our control, come under our control. Involuntary body processes such as regulating the temperature of your body, heartbeat can be controlled at higher levels of consciousness. In a recent series of studies conducted by a team of Indian scientists it was shown how the yogi Prahlad Jani was able to control his urine, absorb the urine into his body and transform it. He did not eat or drink, and was kept in a lab under controlled conditions and monitor for 14 days. He claimed he was able to transform the prana into chemical energy for his body.

A century of thousands of studies in modern science as recent as 2000’s have also proven that mind has power over matter. Matter responds to mind. The mind gives the intention and matter responds.

Yoga is absolutely affirmative on the matter the entire continuum of mind-matter can come under our control. Samkhya is absolutely affirmative that the purusha can control any aspect of prakriti. Quantum physics is affirmative today that there is not a single part of this universe that this is not connected at the fundamental level. If we can control gross matter, we can control subtle matter.


#143

[QUOTE=MindNinja;56663]Seeker33,
Does Shri Mataji ever claim to have mastered physical Yoga or been very physically active in life? [/QUOTE]Incarnations does not need yoga, because they are complete. Only we need yoga, because we need to continue our evolution.

[B]?Normally I don?t tell about Myself but today he exposed me. As soon as I came I had to tell because it?s not tactful. It?s not tactful to say anything. It?s better that you discover Me than I tell you because Christ was crucified, everybody was tortured. I do not want to hamper My work because it makes no difference by telling you anything before Realization. It?s better to tell you after Realization that I am the Holy Ghost ? no doubt. I am the one about which Christ has talked.

I have told them. I had never said this on from a platform and I told. They have been telling Me, ?Mother, You must say that once.? I said, ?In America I?ll declare it.? So today I declare that: ?I am the Holy Ghost. I am the Holy Spirit who has incarnated on this Earth for your realization.? ?[/B]

Shri Mataji
New York, USA 30 September 1980


#144

Does your incarnation need dieting though :wink:

Your incarnation sure likes to tell other people she is an incarnation. She sure likes to publically shout it in the name she adopts, mother of the universe, great and respected goddess" Is there anything else we should add to this string to add to her greatness?

Do you know what they say about people who shout their own greatness?


#145

#146

Seeker 33,

You are so completely in denial you cannot even answer any points about your Cult.

[B]Shri Mataji has repeatedly been asked to demonstrate her powers , cool breeze etc under test conditions since the 1980’s [/B]- she has refused for aound 30 years to undertake any such tests offering all manner of excuses.

[B]Shri Mataji is grossly overweight[/B], her followers money is going via food and her expensive tastes right into her stomach. She has a well known severe flatulence problem also.

[B]Sahaja Yoga Cult is tiny, yet Shri Mataji is the Holy Ghost Jesus talked of and the great saviour and leading spiritual figure for today.[/B] [B]If she was what she claimed shouldn’t she be reaching out to more people? [/B] [Scientolgy has around 500,000 members Worldwide easily provable through census figures such as U.S. around 300,000; yet claims 12 million or so memmbers; with around only 500,000 people they can clear the planet which takes hundreds of thousands of auditing and training hours each person - to reach 7 billion people almost! Good luck and lots of it.]


#147

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56920]Does your incarnation need dieting though :wink:

Your incarnation sure likes to tell other people she is an incarnation. She sure likes to publically shout it in the name she adopts, mother of the universe, great and respected goddess" Is there anything else we should add to this string to add to her greatness?

Do you know what they say about people who shout their own greatness?[/QUOTE]Incarnations are not afraid from The Truth. [B]Jesus as well:[/B]
John 10:36
[B]King James Bible
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/B]


#148

[QUOTE=MindNinja;56922][B]Shri Mataji has repeatedly been asked to demonstrate her powers , cool breeze etc under test conditions since the 1980’s [/B]- she has refused for aound 30 years to undertake any such tests offering all manner of excuses.

[B]Shri Mataji is grossly overweight[/B], her followers money is going via food and her expensive tastes right into her stomach. She has a well known severe flatulence problem also.

[B]Sahaja Yoga Cult is tiny, yet Shri Mataji is the Holy Ghost Jesus talked of and the great saviour and leading spiritual figure for today.[/B] [B]If she was what she claimed shouldn’t she be reaching out to more people? [/B] [/QUOTE]
Miracle Photographs
Why the powers should be demonstrate. [B]Only weak person will try to show off.[/B]

Incarnations using their body to help their disciples. That?s why they need bigger body to accumulate more energy.

SY started only 41 years ago. Wait and watch. The name of Shri Mataji will be written with golden letters in the history of humanity.


#149


#150

Haha, I have nothing more to say.


#151

but sometimes i feel photoshop can do a miracle too


#152

It’s not photoshop, it’s just pictures with a combination of low light, slow shutter speed, it produces these effects. If seeker went to his local photography club or society with these pictures claiming miracles, they would laugh at him.

One of my fav quotes from Einstein, “Human stupidity is infinite” :smiley:


#153

Surya,

“If you do not control your mind and body, then you will simply leave it to its tendencies”

No matter what you do, the mind is going to function according to it’s tendencies. Even if you control it and beat it in a million and one different ways, it is still going to work according to it’s tendencies. If you destroy old tendencies they will just be replaced with new tendencies. And there is no problem in it functioning according to it’s tendencies, that is not the source of where the problems are created. If it is a case of bringing an end to the tendencies of the mind, even eternities will not be of any help. If you are going to try and uproot every imperfection and weed, then you are in for an endless struggle which is simply fruitless. In coming to one’s awakening, the whole scope of one’s humanity is still there - with all it’s so called imperfections and all. It is just a matter of whether you are aware of your own being or unaware, that is the only difference between a Buddha and an “ordinary” person. The ordinary person is walking in constant friction against the current, a Buddha is always in living communion with the current.

The problem is not the changes that happen in the mind, it comes from elsewhere. It is simply that once one has become identified with whatever arises in one’s experience, one loses all clarity, one’s vision becomes distorted. For a being who is living in communion with his true nature, there is not a trace of control which is involved in it, it is something which is entirely choiceless. This choiceless way of being is the very heart of all the spiritual sciences. That is why time and time again it has been spoken of surrender. Certainly effort is needed, enormous energy is needed to channel one’s attention to come to know oneself, through and through. That involves control. But all effort is just to prepare the space for the effortless, all methods are just a way of entry into the methodless. In yoga, it has been called Sahaja Samadhi, once your samadhi becomes absolutely natural - as natural as one’s own breath or the blood flowing through one’s veins. Do something or do nothing - it is there, inescapable.

Once, a disciple came to see master Nansen and asked, “What is the Way?”

The master said, “Ordinary Mind is the Way”.

“Shall I try to seek for it?” said the disciple.

The master said, “Move towards it, and it moves away”.

“Then how can I attain to a knowledge of it?”, asked the disciple.

The master said, “The Way is not a matter of knowing or not-knowing. Knowing is delusion, not-knowing is blank consciousness. When you have really arrived to the Way beyond a doubt, one will find that it is as vast and boundless as space.”


#154

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;56928]It’s not photoshop, it’s just pictures with a combination of low light, slow shutter speed, it produces these effects. If seeker went to his local photography club or society with these pictures claiming miracles, they would laugh at him.

One of my fav quotes from Einstein, “Human stupidity is infinite” :D[/QUOTE]

then, the triangle is real. i agree “Human stupidity is infinite”.


#155

No matter what you do, the mind is going to function according to it’s tendencies. Even if you control it and beat it in a million and one different ways, it is still going to work according to it’s tendencies. If you destroy old tendencies they will just be replaced with new tendencies. And there is no problem in it functioning according to it’s tendencies, that is not the source of where the problems are created. If it is a case of bringing an end to the tendencies of the mind, even eternities will not be of any help. If you are going to try and uproot every imperfection and weed, then you are in for an endless struggle which is simply fruitless.

Then you do not believe in the goal of Yoga. The goal of Yoga is to cease all of the minds vrittis leading to the end of its tendencies. It is resolving the gunas back to their equilbrium leading to the end of the mind. The the fact that the gunas are outside of balance is causing the vrittis, the vrittis are causing the tendencies of the mind. Silence the vrittis, and you silence your mind. Silence the mind, and you have nothing but pure consciousness remaining.

It sounds like you are attached to your vrittis and are finding excuses to hold onto them. In which case you are not trying to cease them. Thus you are doing the opposite of Yoga :wink: Well at least we can clear now that you are not enlightened. You’re just like us mere mortals you have attachments to your thoughts, you have high thought activity, and your thoughts and actions do not match up - and you post on internet forums having pointless debates :wink:


#156

"However, it is already proven that at higher levels of consciousness, things that were erstwhile outside of our control, come under our control. Involuntary body processes such as regulating the temperature of your body, heartbeat can be controlled at higher levels of consciousness.

Yes, such things become possible, there is no doubt about it. The way that the average person functions is just scratching the surface of the potentialities of a human being. But even this has it’s limits. Try as one may, one is never going to grow a third head - even if one awakens capabilities which may appear to be super-human. If one has become identified with the ego one is naturally going to think that man can have absolute control over nature - that is part of one’s ego trip. And to have absolute control is impossible, because control itself means boundaries, it means limitations.

It should be understood that control, in the very nature of things, means restriction. It is because you have channeled your energies in a particular direction in a particular way, that certain things happen. This is not freedom, this is restriction. In freedom - there is no trace of effort that is involved, you become absorbed just as a drop of water becomes absorbed into the ocean. The drop is in fact always absorbed in the ocean, it is just that because one has become identified with a limited identity, that one has started to think of oneself as a separate entity. Everything in nature is such, that it is impossible for anything to function as a separate entity, everything is interconnected in a complex web of cause and effect. It is for this reason too - that it is impossible for man to have absolute control.

“In a recent series of studies conducted by a team of Indian scientists it was shown how the yogi Prahlad Jani was able to control his urine, absorb the urine into his body and transform it. He did not eat or drink, and was kept in a lab under controlled conditions and monitor for 14 days. He claimed he was able to transform the prana into chemical energy for his body.”

That is nice that he has learned how to perform that trick, which any fool can perform with enough training. Like this, there are many people who can perform all kinds of feats, both physical and mental. Some people can walk on a tight rope for hours upon hours. Amongst several shao-lin monks, they are capable of being attacked by swords without penetration of the skin. Some yogis can swallow razor blades without damaging of the internal organs, others can remain buried alive for days, weeks, months, or years. Another well known yogi had managed to remain underwater for several days at a stretch, and it was a public display of demonstration of such an ability.

But these do not mean anything at all as far as one’s insight and spiritual expansion is concerned, they are just superficial. Nor does it mean that one has come to any transformation. In fact, such capabilities have only strengthened their ego - it makes one feel superior to others, that one is somehow special. And although one may not declare this sense of superiority openly - it is there. Unless one is truly a conscious being, in which case one is not going to be interested in these capabilities at all.


#157

Yes, such things become possible, there is no doubt about it. The way that the average person functions is just scratching the surface of the potentialities of a human being. But even this has it’s limits. Try as one may, one is never going to grow a third head - even if one awakens capabilities which may appear to be super-human. If one has become identified with the ego one is naturally going to think that man can have absolute control over nature - that is part of one’s ego trip. And to have absolute control is impossible, because control itself means boundaries, it means limitations.

Yoga is very clear that all of prakriti comes under one control. We can control prakriti, because we are outside of prakriti watching her dance :wink: She obeys us. She is only there for us says Patanjali :wink:

It should be understood that control, in the very nature of things, means restriction.

Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.

Everything in nature is such, that it is impossible for anything to function as a separate entity, everything is interconnected in a complex web of cause and effect. It is for this reason too - that it is impossible for man to have absolute control.

All of prakriti is connected in a web of complex cause and effect. This is why I use the word mind-body system and mind-body continuum. This is all just a web of cause and effect caused by the gunas . However, we are outside of prakriti and causality. We are free beings. We can make prakriti dance to our tunes :wink:

That is nice that he has learned how to perform that trick, which any fool can perform with enough training. Like this, there are many people who can perform all kinds of feats, both physical and mental. Some people can walk on a tight rope for hours upon hours. Amongst several shao-lin monks, they are capable of being attacked by swords without penetration of the skin. Some yogis can swallow razor blades without damaging of the internal organs, others can remain buried alive for days, weeks, months, or years. Another well known yogi had managed to remain underwater for several days at a stretch, and it was a public display of demonstration of such an ability.

Can you do any tricks? Care to be submitted to independent trials where we will bury you for 7 days :wink:

But these do not mean anything at all as far as one’s insight and spiritual expansion is concerned, they are just superficial.

Right, but that was not the point. The point was to show the powers of our consciousness over the mind-matter continuum(prakriti). Not only can we control her, we can make her dance to our tunes. The more refined your consciousness the more powers you have over her. Those yogis who can be buried for months, days and years can do so because they have power over their body. Prahlad Jani has powers over prana. He claims he can extract the prana from any source from the sun, rocks to air.


#158

“Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.”

What is it that you are calling us ?

“We are free beings.”

To be a being is itself a limitation. One may be just painting portraits in one’s own image.

“We can make prakriti dance to our tunes”

Then you must be the dancer and the dance. And if there happens to be no dancing anywhere, then too you are that.

“Can you do any tricks?”

If one is interested in seeing tricks, one should go to a circus.

“The point was to show the powers of our consciousness over the mind-matter continuum”

It is not a matter of this being over that. What one is calling “divine” is not separate from the mind and body, nor is the original nature of existence separate from it’s multiple forms. That would be like trying to separate water from ice. So there is no question of these divisions, which are just the outcome of seeing things through the lenses of the intellect.

“The more refined your consciousness the more powers you have over her.”

The fellow is supported and nourished by the Earth and yet still he wants to put his flag on it.

“Those yogis who can be buried for months, days and years can do so because they have power over their body.”

More flags.


#159

“Yep restriction of of prakriti. Not of us, we are free.”

What is it that you are calling us ?

Various terms can be used: souls, purushas, consciousness units, jivatmans, monads, witnesses, observers, knowers.

Basically us the conscious beings(purushas) that interact with this world(prakriti) Samkhya darshana is all based on knowing the difference between us and prakriti. Basically prakriti is possessed of quality of the gunas, meaning that she changes, transforms, moves, has polarities. Purusha is only possessed one quality: seeing/awareness/knowing. Moving is not our quality, because moving is what our body does. I never move. It is only my body that moves. I simply witness it moving.

It is not a matter of this being over that. What one is calling “divine” is not separate from the mind and body, nor is the original nature of existence separate from it’s multiple forms.

We are clearly outside of nature. Why? Because we can go against nature. Thus proving our independence. We have free will and choice. Nature doesn’t. We are here to tame nature. We do so through understanding how she works and then using our will to tame her. Similarly, we can tame the mind by understanding how it works. If this was not true there would be no science, technology. No Yoga :wink:

Discernment is understanding the essential differences between us and nature, matter and consciousness, spirit and non-spirit. If you mistake the rope for the snake, the mirage for the oasis then you are simply ignorant. When we understand we are different to nature, that is when we realise though we maybe using this body, we are not in fact this body or inside this body. We are simply watching it. We can make nature dance to our tunes.

Then you must be the dancer and the dance. And if there happens to be no dancing anywhere, then too you are that.

Nope, the dancer is the body and the dance is the activity of the body. I am just the one watching them.


#160

[B]Was not aware until now Shri Mataji passed away only in Feb 2011. You never mentioned this fact once Seeker33? Why? [/B]

Who will take over as head of the movement now?

Interestingly, on the official site no mention is made of her passing either : http://www.sahajayoga.org/shrimataji/

Always a blow to any Cult when the Guru dies. It was a huge blow to Scientology until the cover story came - of course L. Ron Hubbard had simply discared his body and was continuing his work in the spirit realm! L. Ron was overweight too and chain smoked.