Despite all that I have tried I can not free my breath

[quote=Mato;21087]Hello everyone, first post here. I am Dimitri from Greece, [B]25,[/B] graphic designer.

Like the thread title hints, I have this problem.[B] I am quite anxiety and depression prone and for about 5 years now[/B] I have dedicated a massive amount of energy and time trying to improve the situation while [B]avoiding self-destruction[/B] as best as I could. I have tried everything. Macrobiotics, meditation, medication, jogging, breathing, postures, I have tried everything I could think of to inumerable variations.

No matter what though, after all those hours of deep breathing and meditation I have gradually come to realise this [B]tightness in my neck and chest and my breath is always shallow and broken[/B]. This feeling is so sly it’s like second nature to me and to even come close to realising this tightness I have to spend 2 hours meditating and deep breathing. But that’s as far as it goes. I just can not mellow that area out. I am [B]starting to think[/B] there might be something of an anatomical nature going on.
[/quote] Why don’t you go and have them check it ? I mean, that is easy … and it would be silly not to do it before you self-destruct. :slight_smile:

The bottom line is I am so tight I can’t feel my feelings and thus [B]I literally don’t know what I want[/B]. I am so emotionally dry, which is in stark contrast to the extremely passionate person I used to be as child and teenager. I am still hopeful one day I will [B]reclaim my… well, my soul[/B], but [B]I just don’t know what else to do[/B].

Does anyone in here even know what I am talking about? [B]Are there any old tibetan know-it-all people[/B] to share some wisdom?

Hello, Mato. I work in the business, kind of, and Pandara also. So, how is that going, the graphic design ? It should give you statisfaction and self-esteem.
I bolded out some of what you said, to give a clue in interpreting my response.

The massive amount of time and energy dedicated clearly does not work the way you thought it would. But regardless of the expected results, these were not in vane, oh not at all. Perhaps without realizing, you have come far. As one wise man said (a sculptor, Brancusi), no moral energy is ever lost in the universe.
About self destruction … well, I have to spoil that for you. It does not work, it is futile, and actually, you just lengthen your suffering. Why ? Because, beleive it or not, you will be born again, and arrive again to a similar situation, only later, and perhaps under less favorable conditions. The desire for self-destruction is the temptation to avoid our fate, to avoid our current conditions. Fate can be hard, but be sure, that you are only facing diffculties you are able to overcome. Now, overcoming, and sucess in this regard is not equal with what we call sucess in life. One apparently might be very ill, and even die, but the soul has been strenghtened, the conception about the world, changed, and the bases for the better conditions of the next life has been set.

You see, it is not about believing these, but asking your conscience if they make sense. There is this part in us, what desires knowledge, there is this part in us what yearns for understanding, for a world where all occurences make sense.
At your age, you are in the process of finishing the development of your intellectual soul. The next seven years, between 27-35 will be spent developing the consciusness soul. This is also the time when the helping forces leave us to face our fate (karma). You see, life is not about reaching the age of 21, than enjoying it, and living it until we die. While the physical and pshychological development seems to stop at that age, even brain studies show, that we use very little of our brain capacity. The age of 21 is the age when we can say that the eternal spiritual element of our existence, what goes on from life to life has finished it’s descent to the physical world, and we are ready to perform what we have come here for, to face our karma.
I had one such crysis at the age of 27, and another one at 34. The last one lasted for three years. I came out of it transfromed, with a higher consciousness and wisdom than before. Stronger, wiser, more balanced.
Our life is a everlasting process of learning and growth. It is also linked to familial, national, and world karma. And it is not easy, if it would be, we would not gain anything from it. Only trying experiences can make us exercise our self control, discipline, openness, willingness to learn, changing our minds, only these will make us better.

Now, in the limits of a forum thread little can be said to justify all what I have written, nevertheless I wan to share my conviction about these things; that there is a karma we must face, what is usually hard and trying but to our benefit, prepared by a wisdom higher than ours, that of the Self, what goes on from incarnation to incarnation, and there is help if you ask for it. And what is your post, if not that ? Be thankful for your karma what brought you to an open and honest attitude. Indeed what can be more honest form a human being today, than to express: I don’t know ?
You are a valuable and dear being, honest, and brave. If only more would be like you are.

On the other hand, you are too young to entrench yourself in spiritual study. You need to take what this world has to offer, and what is there about in your karma. You need to have meaningful relationships, and a find a lifepartner. Were you in love ? When was the last time ?
What I tried here to do, is to provide a bigger picture. Your problem is that you want to adress your crysis in the manner we treat our ill, by eliminating the symptoms. It is like one would take medicine at puberty to avoid the growth of his beard. Imagine than there would be no adults, only teenagers, and suddenly your beard would start to grow, and your voice deepen, and your penis lenghten, and you had no idea what it is about ! You would try to avoid these seemingly unnatural things to happen, out of ignorance.
A crysis always preceeds a great change. That change might be a quality change in your thought, and emotional life. We have to learn to give full credit to such changes.
In your case, this change consist of knowing yourself better. We all bring a lot of things with us, and some we are able to change, and some we are not. The first teach us to exercise our will and self power, the latter are there to learn accepting our limits, and perhaps to awake a desire in us strong enough to make it happen in our next life. As an example … maybe soome has a deficiency, like one has no musical sense whatsoever. Evere questioned what makes some have certain talents and other do not ? It is the actions of their former lives ! If one is indifferrent towards music, this indifference will descend to the physical level in the next incarnation, becoming an inability. Now, let’s suppose that such person falls in love with a musician, but because his inability, will not be able to enjoy the talent of his beloved. And perhaps because of this he will be rejected. Than a very strong desire will be born in his soul, to overcome this inability, especially becaue he will not be able to achive it in this life, because the nature of his physical instrument. And this desire will give him the interest in music, and this interest in time will grant him the ability to “build” (not by himself, mind you, because our bodies or not built by us, just that our karma is allowed to be woven into them) a suitable physical instrument. What I said about how we are not the ones building our bodies, justifies why by most traditions suicide is perceived as a great error. We have been given these wonderful human bodies, we are granted a new opportunity every time we are born to develop our selves, and follow what is there written as human development. Wisdom needs to be an instrument for a better and more encompassing human life. Don’t you desire that wisdom ? I bet you do. Seek, and you will find, ask and you will be given. Have faith in yourself, you are much more than you think.

Mato,

I don’t work in the business, but I’ve been through some similar experiences so maybe I can offer some insight that will help you.

First of all, I don’t think you should view your situation as abnormal. You said you are a “starving artist” and “friendless”. Under those circumstances, it seems perfectly normal to me to experience anxiety and depression.

You said that you have spent massive amounts of time trying to improve your situation. This hasn’t worked for you, and so it seems to me that maybe you need to spend less time on your situation. Get more involved with the external world and as your mind becomes more absorbed with other interests and activities, you will see your situation improve of its own accord.

You should work on getting more financial security. Do whatever you need to do to improve your financial situation, i.e. put more effort into your work, look for a better job, acquire some new skills. This will really help with anxiety. I would go as far as to say that this should be your primary focus.

At your age, it is tremendously difficult not to have friends or a female companion. I know you want to work things out before you look for friends, but you should keep an open mind and don’t under estimate how important this is for your mental and emotional well being. I think you should try to find some activity that you enjoy that involves other people, like basketball or darts, or bowling, or a yoga class. You get the idea.

As for the tightness in your neck and chest, why don’t you try some asanas that will work those areas? Try shoulder stand and plow, and any kind of asana in which your head is turned to one side or the other.

As for the emotional emptyness, I think that as other aspects of your life improve, this will also improve. You have to be truthful with yourself. From my perspective, your post doesn’t seem emotionally dry. You seem to have some passion about this problem you are having. Just take that energy and put it into your work and your other activities.

As for not knowing what you want, I’m twice your age and sometimes I still don’t know what I want. Eventually you just have to figure out what are the realistic alternatives and choose one. But you have to live with the consequences so choose carefully.

Sorry those breathing tests I refer to online are from Michael Grant White at breathing dot com - all the best

“I know what your are going to say, but honestly I would rather I solve this on my own before I invest time finding friends.”

My apologies for not reading the whole thread before replying, but I just had to touch on this one. Especially since you are avoiding increased human contact as a possible solution you should reconsider it. Other beings will draw you out of unidentified habits that are reinforcing your lonleyness. Try going to an animal shelter that will let you play with kittens and puppies for a while if you need to build up some confidence before trusting yourself with humans, but the eventual goal is to get some human friends who will chase you off the path to hell when your habits resurface. They will also get to see more of you than what you choose to write on a forum.

Thank you all for your replies, you gave me so much to think about that I feel too confused to reply selectively. To be honest I still just don’t know what to do. Anyway thanks.

You know, I hesitate to say this, but other guys your age are fighting wars, driving tanks, flying airplanes, driving race cars, competing in triathlons, etc. etc. Any chance you could man-up a little?

its all starts with the right posture. I see that you are a graphic designer and therefore spend a lot of time in from of a computer. Just like I do. Unfortunately the postures we get from sitting in front of a computer is collapsing our shoulder forward and closing our hearts. You need to open up physically. The best posture I have found so far for this is supta baddha konasana.

Here is a random picture of the posture I found on google images:
http://elsieyogakula.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/supported-supta-baddha-konasana.jpg

You won’t believe how good this feels :wink:

Mato, to be very honest. You have received such good advice here from so many people with great compassion. Really man pull yourself together, re-read all the advise and start acting on some of it, that might pull you out of this pit of self-pitty and indeciveness! If I were in your shoes I would be so inspired by some of these replies that it would have sprung me into some action!

Perhaps the right reply or poster did not show up, yet. :slight_smile:
Just hang around.

To those who critisize my attitude I need to defend myself and say that the amount of psychological pressure I had to put up in my teens (with the fucking panick attacks haunting me everytime I drove the car in the highway to go watch alone some crappy movie in the multiplex) and early 20s (I’m 25 now) was beyond comprehension. Nevermind if there was an actual reason for feeling the way I did, I just did. I practically lived like a hermit and a spartan too between the ages 21-24 because the pills wouldn’t work and all I could think of was that I must try and improve things and that suicide is not the answer. For those who have not been there in this nightmarish existense were you DO jog everyday and fake-smile watching the sunlight pour in your face (because that’s what a depressed person should do) and eat your macrobiotics and take your pills and do your deep breathing and your yoga and your meditation and yet still your body and mind do not respond AT ALL to all this and you have to watch your peers being happy and out there living their lifes with their friends, while you have to starve yourself and do cold showers in the middle of the winter to “man up” (because people “out there” face “real problems”(stop being a pussy Dimitri watch wrong with you? you have it all!)), with no tv, or radio, or cellphone, or magazines, just me and this fucking empty house my father rented for me next to the sea and still yet all my mind fed me was death and embarassment and guilt because I’m I’m a pussy, or a psycho or I’m not not trying enough or maybe I ate too much olive oil (one teaspoon. god I don’t have the heart to enlist all the starvation inducing things I tried in the process of “purifying my body”), so then if you haven’t been there where despite you dearest efforts for years and years you hate yourself for being embarassed (and your heart goes crazy) when you talk even to the person at the counter in the super market and you feel like god has forsaken you and the universe is just this dark and cold and empty wasteland (which it so essentialy is) then please at list don’t be bullish.

I have read about and tried more than you can imagine and sure enough maybe that has made me cynical but I am tired of all failures and dissapointments. And so this is why I came here, after finally having narrowed down what my problem seems to be, asking for a targeted solution, something closer to what jlg mentions (btw the posture thing is true my neck is very very stiff and my shoulders are rounded because in the process of trying all those things I also spent a hell of a lot of time in front of the pc (not that much anymore thought)

I can add to this. I have been taught by some excellent teachers and one thing comes to my mind. They always say that depressive people should avoid forward bends. They also say that backbends and handstands ignites the fire within. So do lots of backbends and handstands :wink:

Here is one of my favorite quote:
“One cannot change the past, but one can ruin the present by worrying over the future.”

So let me ask you this. If you woke up today with no knowledge of your pass. would you feel the same today?

If you didn’t worry about how you might feel tomorrow. Would you feel the same today?

Detach yourself from your past. You deserve a fresh start.

[quote=Mato;21283]To those who critisize my attitude I need to defend myself and say that the amount of psychological pressure I had to put up in my teens (with the fucking panick attacks haunting me everytime I drove the car in the highway to go watch alone some crappy movie in the multiplex) and early 20s (I’m 25 now) was beyond comprehension. Nevermind if there was an actual reason for feeling the way I did, I just did. I practically lived like a hermit and a spartan too between the ages 21-24 because the pills wouldn’t work and all I could think of was that I must try and improve things and that suicide is not the answer. For those who have not been there in this nightmarish existense were you DO jog everyday and fake-smile watching the sunlight pour in your face (because that’s what a depressed person should do) and eat your macrobiotics and take your pills and do your deep breathing and your yoga and your meditation and yet still your body and mind do not respond AT ALL to all this and you have to watch your peers being happy and out there living their lifes with their friends, while you have to starve yourself and do cold showers in the middle of the winter to “man up” (because people “out there” face “real problems”(stop being a pussy Dimitri watch wrong with you? you have it all!)), with no tv, or radio, or cellphone, or magazines, just me and this fucking empty house my father rented for me next to the sea and still yet all my mind fed me was death and embarassment and guilt because I’m I’m a pussy, or a psycho or I’m not not trying enough or maybe I ate too much olive oil (one teaspoon. god I don’t have the heart to enlist all the starvation inducing things I tried in the process of “purifying my body”), so then if you haven’t been there where despite you dearest efforts for years and years you hate yourself for being embarassed (and your heart goes crazy) when you talk even to the person at the counter in the super market and you feel like god has forsaken you and the universe is just this dark and cold and empty wasteland (which it so essentialy is) then please at list don’t be bullish.

I have read about and tried more than you can imagine and sure enough maybe that has made me cynical but I am tired of all failures and dissapointments. And so this is why I came here, after finally having narrowed down what my problem seems to be, asking for a targeted solution, something closer to what jlg mentions (btw the posture thing is true my neck is very very stiff and my shoulders are rounded because in the process of trying all those things I also spent a hell of a lot of time in front of the pc (not that much anymore thought)[/quote]

Dimitri,

I have much compassion for you and your situation. However to not say things because I am afraid that I might hurt or offend you will also not serve you very well.

In the very first line you say that you want to defend yourself against those who critisize you. Well, I don’t see a person who defends himself, I see a person who blames everybody and everything around him, from the psychological pressure, pills, crappy movie right down to your father. Please re-read your reply carefully with an open mind and decide for yourself. Perhaps it is time to ask yourself what do you want and to take action on that and live accordingly.

People, come on, let him breath. It is easy to burden somene with our convictions.

Depression is hard to overcome. Those who try to give advise are in a very hard position, because all they can do is to share their conviction that there is a way out. But it is like standing on a river side, and saying “smile, you are free” to the drowning.
To make an example: let us picture depression as the opposite of being in love. Instead of being constantly high, it is being constantly low, and just as hard to overcome. Ever been in the position that you had to fight against love ? Fighting depression is just as hard. For the person suffering from it, it is seemingly impossible to break it.

What is the value of it ? Because for everything in life there is a good side, what usaually presents itself later.
One benefit is that any chronic pain (as depression can be described as such - pain is pain, regardless if it is physical or that of the soul) will make one try everything to get rid of it, thus seek, search, try things. You are doing well.

My opinion is that you need to survive it. No matter how long it takes. No matter how long it has been. Why ? Because, you do not have any other choice. Suicide rarely has oneself as a traget. Usually the targets are others, to show them how miserable I am, that it made me kill myself. It is a sign, a big red light to others - I am in trouble !
Don’t think I do not know it. I know it perfectly well. Sometimes it just seems the only way out. It is a temptation to stop. But it does not work, and it would be silly trying to be sure.

You see, I admit that you are in life threatening danger. You might actually die. So act accordingly.

OM

Mato,

A little criticism seems to have done you good. You’re feeling your anger and frustration and seem to know exactly what you want. By the way, for someone from Greece, your English is excellent. As good as a native speaker in fact.

i do empathise with how you may be feeling. I too have a long history of depression and have tried many things to feel better. I am about the start a yoga practice which feels like it could give me the discipline that i need in my life and boost my sense of self worth. One thing we both know is that there are absolutely no quick fixes and pills dont work. I really feel that a practice of yoga can help depression immensely. that is what i hear anyway and I know from the very little i have already done, that i feel much better.

Mato –
I learned about releasing neck muscles and breathing from two good choral voice instructors (for the record, this was before yoga for me). If you want to ramp it up from there, find someone trained in Alexander Technique.
Good luck, buddy. You have it a lot worse than I ever did.
Feel free to let me/us know how it’s going.

OK, now that I’ve given you that, I’d like to check in on three things that were useful for me but don’t seem to be on your list. I acknowledge you may have already tried them.

  1. diet. What you mentioned about diet didn’t include my counselor’s big recommendations – poultry, eggs, warm milk, and vegetable starches (baked potato is my favorite). 2) sleep. 3) thought and memory hygiene. This is the hardest one for me because I still have an inclination to sabotage it.

(This is where yoga has helped me the most. In asanas and in trying to meditate I’ve learned more about little parts of me resisting my efforts to be healthy. It is also where pills helped me the most – they showed me for a while what a healthy brain sounds like, and that I shouldn’t automatically trust my thoughts. After all, they are just thoughts.)

If any of this sound new or surprising I am happy to give you what I have, but that’s mostly Dr. Amen’s book.

[quote=Techne;21415] thought and memory hygiene. This is the hardest one for me because I still have an inclination to sabotage it.
[/quote]
And for the most of us, after a lifetime of practice. This is just how things are, no need to dispair. A new start every day, every hour, every minute. It requires resilience, yes, but this is how resilience is built. You would not want to spend eternity in your current shape, do you ? There is always room for improvement. :wink:

It is also where pills helped me the most – they showed me for a while what a healthy brain sounds like, and that I shouldn’t automatically trust my thoughts. After all, they are just thoughts.

Dangerous these thoughts are. ([I]rolling yoda eyes[/I])

Thoughts are not just thoughts, they have the annoying tendency to carry themselves out. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side ! :slight_smile:

Heed this advice from your vanilla muffin boy

Yes, I was imprecise – by ‘just thoughts’ I did not mean to indicate they are of low capacity for effect, but that they are not trustworthy. That is, they could be true, but in fact they fall short of that and are ‘just’ thoughts.
The point of thought and memory hygiene is that thoughts and memories are to be tended because not doing so has strong detrimental effect.
Thank you, Hubert.
(He, he – vanilla muffin? Who’d want one of those? I must post my pumpkin and zucchini granola bar recipe.)

Another idea many people find incredibly helpful is understanding the benefits of the negative (and the negatives of the benefits). Dr John Demartini a chiropractor & world renowned self-development guru, is a huge resource on finding the natural balance of the universe through working with positives and negatives. His Demartini method is a tool you can work with. He runs workshops all over the world called The Breakthrough Experience and there is a book on the subject. See - http://drjohndemartini.stores.yahoo.net/books.html