Did I experience Pratyahara?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#32

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;33281]I think there’s enough elaborating here for one thread, don’t you?

I try to keep my practice and teaching as simple as possible without sacrificing the essence. Otherwise students either get preoccupied with minutia, overwhelmed with principals, or bogged down with a struggle to accomplish this and that.

Pratyahara is the withdraw of the senses. It is the shift from being externally referenced to being internally referenced. It is defining yourself from the inside out. It is moving the awareness away from that which is beyond the outer layer of the body. It is moving or hugging the awareness toward the central channel which runs from the crown of the head to the perineum. It is not being disturbed by the smell of food, the rise or drop in room temperature, the coughing student during Oms, the noisy garbage truck during savasana.

And when the intermediate student has explored such things then they may be ready for a more robust definition. But the preoccupation of yoga philosophy beyond an applied philosophy is often merely another diversion on the path, not the path itself.[/QUOTE]

Hi IA,

Yes, there’s been a lot of elaboration since I presented the question. I’ve had some intense, unexpected experiences in the past 10 months or so that have led me here. I have lots of questions and don’t expect anyone to want to elaborate if they don’t want to (for whatever reason), even if I ask them too. It’s cool:) But I appreciate your explanation very much and that you took time for it! Thank you:)

That being said, and this is for everyone, please know I’m reading all your posts, and observing the clicks in me as I read through them. I thank you all for sharing:)

#33

WakingUp,
First a few tidbits. In Yoga there is no seniority. So what’s happening to you in 8 months may not happen to someone in 20 years, and that’s just fine. But on the other hand, in the early stages, mind plays a lot of tricks, since we are arresting its free play by doing asana, pranayama, meditation etc.

Now Pratyahara. It is a very crucial break-through point in 8-limbs sadhana. Patanjali recommends 2 sets of limbs: Secondary: asana, pranayam, yama, niyama (to be practiced concurrently) and Primary: dharana, dhyana and samadhi (to be practiced linearly). But, if you see keenly, while seconday limbs need external attention, primary ones are essentially internal. So, between the secondary and primary limbs, Pratyahara provides that break-through of anchoring awareness within by withdrawing the outward-bound senses. (someone rightly said, meditation only after pratyahara)

If your experience is a real one (and not a mind-trick) it will not only stay, but it will soon come under your conscious control. However, out of the five senses, the first to get consciously withdrawn is ‘odor’ as that is associated with Earth element and not sound. So, you need to let the experience take its own course. Keep the good practice going.

#34

A friend of mine has recently started Taoist type pranayama exercises and he is also reports that he is going to these states. Once again backing up my point that it is not the acual meditation but it is the pranayama(the prelimary steps) which if practiced regularly will lead to the higher states where meditation can begin.

Trying to meditate is wasting your time.

#35

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33700]A friend of mine has recently started Taoist type pranayama exercises and he is also reports that he is going to these states. Once again backing up my point that it is not the acual meditation but it is the pranayama(the prelimary steps) which if practiced regularly will lead to the higher states where meditation can begin.

Trying to meditate is wasting your time.[/QUOTE]

Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.

No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever.

Its only today that I came to know about the term “Pratyahara” & after searching in this forum I found this thread.

Although I haven’t experienced anything even close to pratyahara I must mention that my physical energy has increased a lot.

Just wanted to tell you guys that practicing asanas & pranayamas alone didn’t prevent my anxiety disorder.

Another point worth mentioning is that Brahmacharya is something which I have never achieved. Is that what acted as the obstacle ?

Which is why I am trying some dharana/dhyna now. I wish I had started meditation back in 2008. :oops:

If you wan to know which pranayams & asanas I have been practicing just let me know.

[B]Why didn’t it work for me?[/B]

#36

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;56960]Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.

No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever.

Its only today that I came to know about the term “Pratyahara” & after searching in this forum I found this thread.

Although I haven’t experienced anything even close to pratyahara I must mention that my physical energy has increased a lot.

Just wanted to tell you guys that practicing asanas & pranayamas alone didn’t prevent my anxiety disorder.

Another point worth mentioning is that Brahmacharya is something which I have never achieved. Is that what acted as the obstacle ?

Which is why I am trying some dharana/dhyna now. I wish I had started meditation back in 2008. :oops:

If you wan to know which pranayams & asanas I have been practicing just let me know.

[B]Why didn’t it work for me?[/B][/QUOTE]

I have said this a time or two. Celibacy is fine for a monastic I guess if thats what they want to do and the restraint causes no mental imbalances.

For the lay or shall we say - the regular people - I view Brahmacharya as

[B]The wise moderation of activities.[/B]

#37

It is possible that even in monastic life they may leak off without their knowledge, if they are also biologically still human beings :slight_smile:

#38

"Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.

No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever"

Even if you practice asana and pranayam for eternities, still it will not cultivate the quality of pratyahara. Because it has nothing to do with these techniques in themselves, although it can certainly happen during the practice of these techniques. One thing which is essential for pratyahara is relaxation. Without relaxation, pratyahara is an impossibility. And it is not as though you have not experienced it before, don’t think it is is something special. You do it every day when you go to sleep - there is that sensory withdrawal, and the outer world has disappeared from your perception. You can perform the same sensory withdrawal - but with awareness, remaining totally alert and awake. That is the difference between meditation and sleep - in sleep you loose that quality of being a witness. But whether sleep or meditation - as far as pratyahara is concerned, it is the same - relaxation is a necessity. And it is this element which most people struggle with, as to how to come to a relaxation ? Particularly when you have been programmed with this idea that by performing all kinds of methods, that you can attain to deeper states of awareness. Not that deeper states of awareness are not possible through practicing a method - a method is totally necessary, and without a method the chances of coming to more awareness are like the chances of swallowing the ocean. But it is just that when you enter into the practice with an attachment towards an outcome - it destroys your capability for relaxation.

#39

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57035] a method is totally necessary, and without a method the chances of coming to more awareness are like the chances of swallowing the ocean. [/QUOTE]

Okay…but what is that method ?

#40

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;57037]Okay…but what is that method ?[/QUOTE]

Amir doesn’t know the method.

Because he

  1. is a 25 year old punk kid.

  2. is a well read fraud and parrot of others words. (including mine)

  3. is not in knowledge.

  4. Hasn’t trodden the path therefore he gives no precise method. He instead speaks in ambiguity and grays based on things he’s read.

  5. Has no higher authority to teach anything.

  6. claims he is awakened but gives no definition or method. Nor can he elucidate the visual signs. He instead speaks in ambiguity and grays based on the things he’s read.

  7. disparages the masters.

  8. tells people not to read scripture

  9. puts himself on youtube giving ‘sermons’

  10. gathers chelas when he himself is un - accomplished.

  11. is a slick talking shyster.

  12. copy cats me…

If you read around you will find him parroting and elaborating on what I say. Others do it as well. The others I do not mind.

I gave the method. On the prior page. Will this work for you?

No. Most likely not.

You got to “turn everything on”. This is done through your practice of the limbs of yoga.

Beyond that I will not say “how” to turn everything on as you are not my student and this information should not be willy nilly tossed about the internet as some tool box like Amir Moron can get ahold of the information and use it to aggrandize his egoity and gather chelas (disciples).

Plus it’s a big subject!

Read up and study as much as is comfortable. Establish your own practice. Go take some yogasana classes. If after time you desire in your heart for something more . . . go find an authentic lineage that emphasis the techniques and not the guru - to receive initiation into.

#41

[QUOTE=The Scales;57111] You got to “turn everything on”. This is done through your practice of the limbs of yoga.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. You are right.

I have started trying just that.

Okay let me tell which of those limbs I find difficult & which of them [B]comparatively[/B] easy.

Green = Easy (in comparison)

Red = Difficult.

[U]Yama[/U]

Ahimsa 
Satya 
Asteya
Brahmacharya
Aparigah 
   Kshama
    Dhruti 
    Daya
   Aarjav
    Mitahar


[U]Niyama [/U]

Shoucha - Purity  (Dhouti, Basti, Neti, Tratak, Nouli and Kapalbhati)
Santosh 
Tapa  I still don't understand what it is.
Swadhyaya (Japa) Haven't tried it yet.
Eshwar Pranidhan


[U]Asana[/U]

Some I find easy while I am struggling to perfect others.

[U]Pranayam[/U]

Pratyahara

Dharana

Dhyan

Samadhi

Its a long & difficult path !!!

#42

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;57118]Yes. You are right.

I have started trying just that.

Okay let me tell which of those limbs I find difficult & which of them [B]comparatively[/B] easy.

Green = Easy (in comparison)

Red = Difficult.

[U]Yama[/U]

Ahimsa 
Satya 
Asteya
Brahmacharya
Aparigah 
   Kshama
    Dhruti 
    Daya
   Aarjav
    Mitahar


[U]Niyama [/U]

Shoucha - Purity  (Dhouti, Basti, Neti, Tratak, Nouli and Kapalbhati)
Santosh 
Tapa  I still don't understand what it is.
Swadhyaya (Japa) Haven't tried it yet.
Eshwar Pranidhan


[U]Asana[/U]

Some I find easy while I am struggling to perfect others.

[U]Pranayam[/U]

Pratyahara

Dharana

Dhyan

Samadhi

Its a long & difficult path !!![/QUOTE]

The wise have said the Yamas and Niyamas are the foundations. Or another analogy is they are the factors that help the seed grow into the tree.

The rain, the minerals, the sun, the warmth, the drainage, the soil…

#43

Om Namah,

“Okay…but what is that method ?”

There are a thousand and one skillful means. My approach has been through meditation.

#44

“The wise have said the Yamas and Niyamas are the foundations.”

. These “yamas” and “niyamas” are not to be interpreted as absolutes, they are just useful strategies. Not only do different traditions have different interpretations as to what their terms mean, but there are even some traditions which have been doing what appears to be just the opposite of these yamas and niyamas.

#45

You see how he is?

He disparages the wise…

He doesn’t give a method other than “meditation” which is about as ambiguous as it gets.

Plus there are not a thousand and one skillfull means . . . more like a couple that can be combined. and NONE of them have anything to do with ‘mediation’ in the yogic sense sense of the word. Nor do they have anything to do with new agey fingers up the spine or shaktipat.

Amir. You are a punk kid.

You are 25 years old.

You really don’t have anything to share

You don’t know shit. at all.

[B]25 years old![/B]

:stuck_out_tongue:

#46

@scales

All I have till now is tell you guys whats not working. Sorry about that.

Let me tell you whats working.

Its [B]Tratak[/B]. I am concentrating at the third eye.

After doing it for say 15mins or say I am experiencing a sense of calm.

#47

Scales,

"He disparages the wise… "

I have not disparaged anybody, I have just said that there are relative skillful means, there is no absolute method. And if you want - I can give you countless different examples as to why this is so.

“He doesn’t give a method other than “meditation” which is about as ambiguous as it gets”

If you want it to be less ambiguous, spend less time running around seeking attention and more time in practice.

“You are 25 years old.”

Again, wisdom and experience is not a matter of time. There are people who are eighty five years of age, and they are still psychologically not more than perhaps fifteen years old. Their body continued growing, but inwardly they stagnated. Just as it is possible for somebody who is old to be asleep, it is possible for somebody young to be awake. It is not a question of time at all.

#48

Om,

That is good if it is true, continue practicing it. It will sharpen your concentration. But do not be surprised if it may take some time. But so far, the practice of concentration is not meditation. When your attention is flowing with one-pointedness over a certain span of time, eventually the effort of the mind disappears, and you will enter into spontaneous meditation. But it requires your attention to be uninterrupted and unbroken - a constant current without any gaps.

#49

[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;57165]@scales

All I have till now is tell you guys whats not working. Sorry about that.

Let me tell you whats working.

Its [B]Tratak[/B]. I am concentrating at the third eye.

After doing it for say 15mins or say I am experiencing a sense of calm.[/QUOTE]

I would say this is quite good. The spot should be between the eyes up just a little - a tad.

Do you know why your doing this? and how it does what it do?

#50

[QUOTE=The Scales;57153]
You are 25 years old.

You really don’t have anything to share
[/QUOTE]

Hej Scales,

I’m not looking to get involved in this argument, but I’m curious to know how you think about the links between age, experience and knowledge? Are the requirements for attaining a high level of skill/proficiency (or whichever word is better to use here) directly connected to someone’s age, or to the number of years a person has studied or practiced a certain subject?

I have been thinking a lot about this regarding something which is not very much related to yoga at all (or this thread, OT, sorry!) and am interested in all points of views regarding learning - teaching - age - experience…

#51

I knew you’d pull the wisdom has no number card.

You are a punk kid.

You have no wisdom.

Also IDIOT. If you haven’t figured it out yet. I don’t need to practice.

I think I’ll copy and paste my summary of you from above so I can save it and put it on as a reply to every stupid post you make which is most of them.

You have nothing of value to share.

at this time

your knowledge is crap.

I’m actually helping you by being mean and nasty.

You have no freaking clue.

and

I Will continue to school you.

Also never ever elaborate on my posts again. I write exactly what I write for a reason.

I however will continue to trash your stupid posts.