Did I experience Pratyahara?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello everyone,
I’m new to the forum and am [B]very[/B] grateful for this place!

I have a question about pratyahara. Well, more like I wanted to share an experience I had 10 years ago, before I ever started meditating or doing Yoga, and ask for opinions on whether it might have been an accidental glimpse of pratyahara. Here’s what happened. I was on the verge of falling asleep, when suddenly I became absolutely, unmistakably aware of the fact that my hearing had just turned off (for lack of a better way of phrasing it). I didn’t try to make it happen, it just happened. I was completely startled by the experience! I never forgot it.

I’m practicing Yoga, meditation, and pranayama almost daily for 8 months now (in the past, my practice was scattered at best). Recently, I started to experiment to see if I can do it again, to notice right before falling asleep if I can be aware of when my hearing turns off, and to my surprise, I can still do it. I just become instantly aware that my hearing turns off as I’m drifting off to sleep.

Just a cool party trick or maybe something more? :slight_smile:

Thank you again for such a wonderful Forum, and for all the juicy insights! This is a wonderful place - happy as heck to have found it!

#2

Namaste Waking Up,

Incidentally, the last few days I have been talking about this experience you’ve had and stating categorically what has become hugely controversial with others members my proclamation that meditation does not begin until we reach pratyhara, prior to that one is just wasting their time trying to meditate.

Yes, I had your experience a few times Wakingup and I have also observed it while going to sleep. This is not party trick, this is the point where you can commence dharana or otherwise meditation and you will notice how for the first time you are actually mediating properly.

At this point you will begin to experience very vivid visions.

#3

Part of reason you can reach Pratyhara so often is because of your asana and pranayama over 8 months. It has cultivated your pranic system so that it becomes much easier to enter into Pratyhara. You will be surprised to know people who have not been doing asana and pranayama and just meditating(what they falsely think is meditation) do not get your experience even after 20 years of practice.

#4

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33105]Namaste Waking Up,

Incidentally, the last few days I have been talking about this experience you’ve had and stating categorically what has become hugely controversial with others members my proclamation that meditation does not begin until we reach pratyhara, prior to that one is just wasting their time trying to meditate.

Yes, I had your experience a few times Wakingup and I have also observed it while going to sleep. This is not party trick, this is the point where you can commence dharana or otherwise meditation and you will notice how for the first time you are actually mediating properly.

At this point you will begin to experience very vivid visions.[/QUOTE]

I’d like to know about your experiences with meditation. In particular the visions.

#5

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33105]Namaste Waking Up,
This is not party trick, this is the point where you can commence dharana or otherwise meditation and you will notice how for the first time you are actually meditating properly.

At this point you will begin to experience very vivid visions.[/QUOTE]

Actually Surya, it was your post that made me realize I should ask the question. It was a lightbulb moment for me when I read your statement:) So I thank you VERY MUCH for sharing that experience. You never know who is reading, and the effects these posts can have. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed the debate in your thread and find both sides compelling, intriguing, and as a relative newcomer to all of this (meditation more so than Yoga, and certainly sanskrit, the Pradipika, etc…), very fascinating.

I appreciate the encouragement with meditation and am very glad to finally get clarity on this rather strange thing I’m able to do. I would love to hear from others, and welcome opinions of all kinds.

With gratitude!<3

#6

Vedas/upanishads say mind and senses introvert to pranamayakosha/astralbody/subtlebody/transmigrating body . . . and perhaps the causal body during dreamless sleep.

[B]Pratyahara[/B]

“when the senses have withdrawn from their objects and transmuted themselves into the modes of consciousness, this is called the withdrawal,”

  • [I]Yoga Darshana[/I]

“When ever the activity of the mind is interrupted the withdrawal of the senses takes place automatically.”

  • [I]Alain Danielou[/I]
#7

[QUOTE=The Scales;33109]I’d like to know about your experiences with meditation. In particular the visions.[/QUOTE]

Well, I can describe two kinds of experiences.

The visions are nothing more than subconscious projections and tend to be random. I call them visions because you can see and hear them very vividly.
Sometimes they are more consistent and I can see equations, mantras and locations.

The second kind of experience is something more psychic. My mind becomes like a television screen and I can see and hear the static, and then the static forms an image on the screen which I can see and hear. Sometimes I receive communication.

It is surprising how much the mind works like a receiver.

#8

Perhaps

#9

Hi InnerAthlete,
Can you please elaborate on ‘perhaps’? I’m trying to understand pratyahara - heck, I’m trying to wrap my brain around all 8 limbs (which I find utterly fascinating and it’s all a bit new to me!).

Thank you:)

#10

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33189]Well, I can describe two kinds of experiences.

The visions are nothing more than subconscious projections and tend to be random. I call them visions because you can see and hear them very vividly.
Sometimes they are more consistent and I can see equations, mantras and locations.

[B]Slipping down into the subconscious sphere isn’t what you should be after. [I]Usually[/I] nothing but tons of gobedely gook down there. Funny things. Disturbing things. Weird things. [/B]

The second kind of experience is something more psychic. My mind becomes like a television screen and I can see and hear the static, and then the static forms an image on the screen which I can see and hear. Sometimes I receive communication.

It is surprising how much the mind works like a receiver

[B]and Transmitter.[/B]

[B]I feel your Bsing me here on your second kind of experience. I was looking for certain things and you did not present them. Nice try though. A+ for effort! :smile: [/B]

[/QUOTE]

Keep going. You’ll be just fine.

#11

You are going to slip into the subconscious sphere automatically when you enter into pratyhara. It is just like when you are about to sleep the moment you are reaching sleep you are entering your subconscious.

You have a spiritual superiority complex by the way. I sure hope you have the credentials to back it up.

#12

The Scales, I was wondering if you have an opinion on my experience based on maybe some of your own experiences with pratyahara? I think it will help me understand better. I probably should have asked for that in my original post up there, and not definitions or quotes, which in all honesty, kind of are going over my head in these early days of my learning.

Also, with all due respect, I kindly ask you and Surya carry on in your own threads please. Thanks guys:)

#13

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33209]You are going to slip into the subconscious sphere automatically when you enter into pratyhara.

[B]This is incorrect. Slip into the subconscious sphere is because of lack of presence. [/B]

It is just when you are about to sleep the moment you are reaching sleep you are entering your subconscious.

You have a spiritual superiority complex by the way. I sure hope you have the credentials to back it up.[/QUOTE]

There are two on here who project thier ( ______ ) onto me.

Yogiadam and you.

Both of you don’t realize you do it. But I do.

How you like them credentials?

#14

Scales so you are telling me you don’t dream? Is it because you have too much presence :wink: Do you even think? You must be constantly in thoughtless awareness. What are you doing on a forum like this, you should be out there collecting disciples :wink:

Sorry Wakingup. I will not say anything more out of respect for you.

Edit to add: For us mere mortals scales we have lot of subconscious thoughts to deal with. So when we slip into pratyahara, our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff. Interestingly, Swami Satyananda also explains this is what happens. You are obviously a demi-god :smiley:

#15

Surya, I don’t know if this is what you mean by [I]“when we slip into pratyahara our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff”[/I], so here I go with another question;) Last night I tried again to remain aware of my hearing (waiting for it to turn off). It seemed like it started to happen and then all of a sudden I was barraged with some intense dreams/visuals, really almost violent, though I can’t remember what it was now. I just remember being conscious of not liking what I was experiencing. I woke myself up and tried to go back to sleep with thinking about it. Thankfully, sleep came quick. Thoughts about any of this? Anyone? I open the floor:)

#16

Waking up, yep it sounds like you’re human.

It is a simple cause and effect thing. If you leave the conscious mind you enter into the subconscious mind, and then the unconscious mind. The subconscious mind is indeed very violent and the visions tend to be very random like a barrage of disconnected images. At this point it is easy to fall into sleep and start dreaming. However, if you maintain your awarenesss, after a while they will begin to subside and your mind will settle down. This is the point where your visions will become more coherent(connected images) and then they will stop altogether. If you have reached this stage then you can begin meditation. In fact you are not that far off from samayama.

Swami Satyananda explains this in very precise detail in his book, “Sure ways to self realization” which I highly recommend. He gives a yogic technique called antar mouna(inner silence) which is exactly designed to induce pratyahara. In fact it is very similar in the first stages to what you are doing. You focus on your hearing, but in this case you alternate with focussing on your natural breath. You keep doing this until you reach pratyahara(senses shut off) the next stage is when the visions start. This stage is important and if they have not started yet Swami ji recommends posing thoughts, this can trigger them off.

In fact I will just give you the stages he mentions(I have the book on me):

Stage 1: You become aware of your senses and how they are connecting you to the world. The eyes will be closed so you are only hearing the sound. After a while the mind will introvert.

Stage 2: Ones attention will now be in their own mind and its working. How it is reacting and what images are coming from the subconscious. This is the stage where grosser neurosis, phobias and tensions of the mind are released. You may relive past experiences and witness the eruption of suppressed desires. Keep observing until the mind becomes calm.

Stage 3: Posing and disposing of thoughts at will. You can play a little by inducing visions. You give it a thought and watch the fantasy the mind creates and then after a while you dispose of it later on at will. This will later develop into the practice of self analysis.

Stage 4: Now you simply watch the spontaneous thoughts arising from the subconscious again. The most prominent of these thoughts most be analysed and exhausted at will. When you have mastered this stage, your mind is going deeper into the subconscious.

Stage 5: At this stage your mind should be reasonably calm. Thoughts will still arise, but they will not be very strong, nor will they cause any great emotional upheavel. This will lead to the final stages of pratyhara: complete thoughlessness.

Stage 6: Begin Dharana.

#17

By the way the Bihar School of Yoga is a no-nonsense, very serious tradition of Yoga. This is a proper authentic tradition and their techniques and books are second to none. Some of the best books you will find on yoga is from this group.

#18

[QUOTE=WakingUp;33212]The Scales, I was wondering if you have an opinion on my experience based on maybe some of your own experiences with pratyahara? I think it will help me understand better. I probably should have asked for that in my original post up there, and not definitions or quotes, which in all honesty, kind of are going over my head in these early days of my learning.

Also, with all due respect, I kindly ask you and Surya carry on in your own threads please. Thanks guys:)[/QUOTE]

I will not elaborate on the signs because people can then run around with them blithering on like they are in the know. Which can be harmful to the integrity of yoga. Which I will not stand for. Thats why The Sun God is my new buddy.

I think perhaps your experience on the verge of sleep relates simply to mind and senses receding / introverting back into the subtle body and your awareness just catching a glimpse of the instruments losing contact with thier organs on the way back.
The form being your hearing shut off.

This is pratyahara in the sense of withdrawling the senses - yes. But awareness/presence was not maintained.

No maintence of awareness - No dharana/dhyana/Samadhi. No singlepointed concentration/contemplation/meditation/absorbption.

It is written in several upanishads and I’m sure the vedas about sleepy time.

Dreams CAN occur when the mind and it’s subtle instruments are in the pranamayakosha/subtle body/astral body/transmigrating body. The dreams can arise because the subtle body is the seat of stored impressions and or samskaras. It is these impressions and or samskaras which [I]usually[/I] shape the dreams. Thus the display.

In Dreamless sleep mind and its sublte instruments reside in the causal body which I [I]think[/I] holds no samskaras. Thus no display.

It is said that if awareness is maintained one can shape their dreams through will. See books on Dream Yoga if this interests you. I haven’t fiddled around with Dream yoga.

If the self is uncovered dream yoga is cake. I.e easy to do. Maybe a nice diversion while the body is at rest… Could be possible, more correctly probable to do other things while the body is a rest. But this can also be done through the sitting. I.e meditation session.

So anyway back to pratyahara concerning a phase of the meditation session. …

There are no trumpets. Angels do not give you high fives. There are signs though…very specific.

Think of pratyahara as jumping over the lower mind system.

Lower mind system being that aspect of mind with it’s incessant half thoughts, ramblins, musings, mutterings and thinkings.

This does not mean when withdrawl occurs that lower mind system shuts up with all its babble. Its a gradual throttling down. It may babble at you in the background some…

The more you sit and do the process the better you’ll get at it, and the quiter the lower mind system will get.

The clue is given in the Danielou quote.

#19

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33215]Scales so you are telling me you don’t dream?

[B]I dream. [/B]

Is it because you have too much presence :wink:

:rolleyes:

Do you even think? You must be constantly in thoughtless awareness.

[B]If I didn’t think I wouldn’t know whats wrong with you.[/B]

What are you doing on a forum like this, you should be out there collecting disciples :wink:

[B]I’m sharing.[/B]

Sorry Wakingup. I will not say anything more out of respect for you.

Edit to add: For us mere mortals scales we have lot of subconscious thoughts to deal with. So when we slip into pratyahara, our subconscious bombards us with all kinds of stuff. Interestingly, Swami Satyananda also explains this is what happens. You are obviously a demi-god :D[/QUOTE]

Your projecting again.

#20

Scales have you experienced pratyahara? So far there is myself, Wakingup and Swami Satyananda in this thread who are describing the same thing.

I am getting the impression you are speaking from book knowledge only.

In Dreamless sleep mind and its sublte instruments reside in the causal body which I think holds no samskaras. Thus no display.

Hmm, no. The causal body(Sanskrit: karana sharira) is named as such because the latent causes for all impressions in the mind are stored here. This is where the samkaras are stored. Why else did you think it was called the causal body? In dreamless sleep we do not experience any dreams because all karmas lay dormant in the samskaras. The reason we come back from dreamless sleep is because there are still samskras present that project us back into the waking. Once you have exhausted all your samskaras, you do not come back from dreamless sleep.