Hi Surya Deva,
Looking for a liittle clarification here.
Hmm, no. The causal body(Sanskrit: karana sharira) is named as such because the latent causes for all impressions in the mind are stored here. This is where the samkaras are stored. Why else did you think it was called the causal body?
Which sheath/kosha for.eg would you say the the causal body might refer to?
Vijnanamaya kosha. The intellectual sheath. I understand it as physical body, etheric/astral body, mental body, causal body and spiritual body.
Great stuff!
I just pulled this link on the 5 koshas and atman from Swamiji website.
[LEFT][B]Wisdom - Vijnanamaya kosha [/B] [/LEFT]
The next of the koshas is Vijnanamaya kosha. [I]Vijnana[/I] means [I]knowing[/I]. It is the sheath of wisdom that is underneath the processing, thinking aspect of mind. It knows, decides, judges, and discriminates between this and that, between useful and not useful. It is also the level of ego consciousness, meaning the powerful wave of I-am-ness. This I-am-ness itself is a positive influence, but when it gets co-mingled with the memories, and is clouded over by the manas, it loses its positive strength.
A major part of sadhana (spiritual practice) is gaining ever increasing access to this level of our being. It is the level that has the higher wisdom to seek Truth, to go within, in search of the eternal center of consciousness.
Then the bliss sheath,anandamayakosha
And then Atman,the true self. Or the Light itself.
I think use of the word intellectual might be misleading of confusing for some (at least i think it was for me(. The wisdom body sounds less so.Discrimination,viveka,moral action,intuition,
I guess, the light of inner guru is more likely to shine through the closer one is to the source.
Thank You!
Pratyahara . . .
Its not flabergastingly difficult.
Here’s how I manage it.
Little asana as a warm up. Thats all nothing special. Warm the body up get the kinks out. 5 10 15 minutes.
Then I just sit in a comfortable seat. It ain’t fancy. Lotus is good. But sometimes I don’t bother with that.
Get in the seat. Make sure I’m comfortable. [B]Thats a big key. Huge. Enormously important to be very very comfortable in the body. [/B]
Spine straigtht. Thats a big key.
Tip of the tounge to the roots of the upper teeth. Rest of the tounge in contact with the roof of the mouth. Tounge to head is important.
Lightly hold ashwini mudra. Not a big key but it helps. Like a little boost. Helps keep the vayu in.
If I’m not tired I do no retentions/kumbhak. I retain when I need a little lift or I feel like doing it.
The head is slighlty bent foreward but I don’t think this really matters either way.
The Breathing is Abdominal taking the vayu down just below the navel a little bit. Very easy. Very slight. Nothing fancy.
I don’t try and make Ujjayi noise. Although I imagine it would be helpful to some.
My eyes are closed and gazing out into the horizon void. Not down. Not up. Horizon. At a spot a couple of inches, I dunno four of five infront of me. Gazing at the nose may be helpful but I don’t do it.
The thoughts are there. Thinking. Thinking. I get balled up in them. I remember what I’m doing.
To get the introversion, the withdrawl, sometimes I will use just a little force on the mind.
I will forecfully try and hold down the mind.
Then I’ll ease up on it quickly. And wait patiently.
Sometimes no force whatsoever is required. The mind simply stops chattering away after a time. Then it’s not long. Just moments . . .
Then the sign comes for pratyahara.
Still need presence/awareness during pratyahara or lower mind will start chattering again in the background. It may chatter a little here and there. I find ignoring it works well. But if I let it run away with me pratyahara will cease, and I’ll have to reestablish awareness/presence. I look at the horizon void. Regulate the abdominal breath. Remember what I’m doing.
Once pratyahara is done its sign stops.
Then there will come different signs within the horizon void.
I will not elaborate on these signs. Because as I have mentioned elsewhere they should be kept secret for various reasons. They are not hard to figure out once you see them.
The speed at which all this takes place is relative to many factors.
Now I do realize this is not a common experience. For somebody just starting out on this. This will not happen. If you’ve done it in the past it will be much easier, usually, unless something went amok, to pick these things back up. The Karma plays a factor in this as well - at least for me. My heart chakra was, I don’t want to say completely closed, because I don’t feel that is true, but I had to have a certain realization occur for progress to be made in sadhana. When I had this realization, (it concerned why I’m here), there was an immediate energetic opening of sorts in that area. Upon reflection I feel that this block was a saftey valve. Because if everything was opened and operating at a young age I would have maybe been a terror, not understanding, or scared about what was happening. what the hay is going on and all this…
If the nadis don’t work. If they are full of junk. If sushuma doesn’t flow. If the chakras are not working. If there are unresolved blockages at the chakras. Very little if anything will happen. You may get to pratyahra right. But after that you will be blocked where there are blocks, if there are blocks you will have difficulty attaining good meditation and other things…
Thus we have all the various practices developed and handed down by the precious gurus to clean up, dissolve, activate and harmonize. Some more effective than others.
Some really good for one. Not good for other.
This is easy for me only because in the [B]past[/B] I spent considerable amounts of time doing what needed done under the guidance of a good guru. Do I have conscious memory of this past? No. Am I aware of it. Yes.
So like I said. I’m here to help.
I am not as scholarly as you. But I know a little. In terms of precision of asana I’m not the guy for that. But I know a little bit. In terms of yoga alliance certification and things like that. Being a professional trained teacher - Alignment and all this. Not me. But there are certain things I do know . . . so I help where I can.
I don’t think pratyahara is perhaps as elusive or mysterious as is being made out unless i have not epxerienced it. Howvere it is an altered state and it could be in degrees.I can buy the prana explanation that SD has offered. If the mind & attention is directed inwards then makes sense that the energies are contained and in theory it adds up to. And i agree that it i the gateway limb to the other limbs that makes the inner yoga much easier. A comfortable and easy seat is obviously the main obstacle to most folk.External distractions another. Then using yogic technqiques combined with inducing the state of pratyahara, as a lot of technique induce and traverse acrosss a number of limbs making use of them together.
I find relaxation practices,mild sambhavi, gentle pranayama,inner trataka and a myriad of other techniques induces intorversion of the senses or sensory awareness.Definitely deep mantra meditation should ring it on to some degree i would imagine.One can be aware of one’s surroudnings but not affected by them, unrepsonsive to them as such.
If you attention is directed on the breath or an inner object then pratyahara to some extent should arise naturally, no? I admit it is a very nice state to be in. And the real business, or business-end, of yoga gets done in this state, dharan happens alot more naturally and easily.We can then get on with depper aspects of our yoga practices.
Do alitle bit of gentle light asana and then some light pranayam, observe the abdoment rise and fall then try some dharana. Be sure to incprortae some relaxation practices definitely savaasna at the end of v. light asana. Then try some dharana. For some reason i would expect perhaps some pratyahar to arise naturally. Try gently focusing between the eye brows.And feel the eyes very very gently raise upwards, feel the fl of breath through the nose and at the bridge. Fel the diaphragm do it’s thing. Now try some extended dharan,focus on an object- it may be a part of the body, your breath/breath awareness or a mantra,verbally chanted ot silently intoned(more powerful, usually provided by a teacher or guru)
As the outer noise receds and is withdrawn so the inner noise slows down significantly. So our jounrey inwards continues as does our concentration.
I plug up the gates of the ears with foamy plugs. Solitude.
I don’t direct attention to any object. I just look out into the horizon void. Maintain awareness. Thats it.
Either apply some force to the mind to try and stop it or wait for it to stop.
Then pratyahar will simply happen…
I expect full reports from all the scientists on your findings. 
After about 30 mins espcially if use some pranayam or kriyas of any sort i often feel mild currents disperse and circulate, typically in the third eye region or around the face(that maybe just me or my web of obstructions/blockages;these are a symptom of friction,obstructions dissolving,prana flowing)This is a cue for me that the energy bodyor Kundalini is being woken,stiring if you like, and psychic and our physical connections are being made. I might expect some degree of either pratyahar being employed or the witness or observer state(or inner silence;the witness state can be depednent on this)A letting-go attitude faclitiates the process and the changes that can take place.Hnece the asanas beforehand and the calming of the monkey thinking restless mind.
You will know pratyahara by the sign. It’s distinct. It’s visual.
All this other stuff you speak of is the results of you doing the work. Vayu doing its thing.
Yes Inner Trataka. Inner Fixing. That’s what I mean when I say I gaze out into the horizon void. Eyes closed. Gaze out 3 4 5 inches in front of you into the horizon.
Shambhavi Mudra is as far as I’ve found for the single eye on the forehead . . . and some other things. It’s a very very useful practice. But not nesicarily useful to induce pratyahar.
The eyes are so important…
In regards to “Spine Straight” now of course theres a natural curve better direction would be to “sit tall.”
Posture should be effortless. So you can forget about the body.
All these little pieces of the puzzle given work together.
No need to focus on the Abdominal breathing. Set it up and forget about it.
No need to constantly check ashini mudra, the tounge, and all this… Just more thoughts.
Set it up and forget about it. You want to forget about the body and mind.
Maintain presence/awareness. When there is a break in the current of thought. Slip in.
[QUOTE=WakingUp;33199]Hi InnerAthlete,
Can you please elaborate on ‘perhaps’? I’m trying to understand pratyahara - heck, I’m trying to wrap my brain around all 8 limbs (which I find utterly fascinating and it’s all a bit new to me!).
Thank you:)[/QUOTE]
I think there’s enough elaborating here for one thread, don’t you?
I try to keep my practice and teaching as simple as possible without sacrificing the essence. Otherwise students either get preoccupied with minutia, overwhelmed with principals, or bogged down with a struggle to accomplish this and that.
Pratyahara is the withdraw of the senses. It is the shift from being externally referenced to being internally referenced. It is defining yourself from the inside out. It is moving the awareness away from that which is beyond the outer layer of the body. It is moving or hugging the awareness toward the central channel which runs from the crown of the head to the perineum. It is not being disturbed by the smell of food, the rise or drop in room temperature, the coughing student during Oms, the noisy garbage truck during savasana.
And when the intermediate student has explored such things then they may be ready for a more robust definition. But the preoccupation of yoga philosophy beyond an applied philosophy is often merely another diversion on the path, not the path itself.
Yes, it is not all that mysterious or elusive. We are routinely going into pratyhara everytime we go to sleep. Sleep follows exactly the same pattern: conscious mind, receding into subconscious mind, receding into unconscious mind. The part where we leave the conscious mind is the beginning of pratyahara. It is unmistakable because the senses completely shut off. It’s as if somebody has flicked a switch.
The same effect I believe can be experienced in a sensory deprivation/floatation tank. I have never tried one but the effects described are similar to pratyahara i.e., very strong visions.
For those who are interested in the antar mouna technique I mentioned earlier on. Here is a detailed description with techniques for stage 1 and stage 2: http://saraswatiyoga.com/antarmouna.html
[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;33281]I think there’s enough elaborating here for one thread, don’t you?
I try to keep my practice and teaching as simple as possible without sacrificing the essence. Otherwise students either get preoccupied with minutia, overwhelmed with principals, or bogged down with a struggle to accomplish this and that.
Pratyahara is the withdraw of the senses. It is the shift from being externally referenced to being internally referenced. It is defining yourself from the inside out. It is moving the awareness away from that which is beyond the outer layer of the body. It is moving or hugging the awareness toward the central channel which runs from the crown of the head to the perineum. It is not being disturbed by the smell of food, the rise or drop in room temperature, the coughing student during Oms, the noisy garbage truck during savasana.
And when the intermediate student has explored such things then they may be ready for a more robust definition. But the preoccupation of yoga philosophy beyond an applied philosophy is often merely another diversion on the path, not the path itself.[/QUOTE]
Hi IA,
Yes, there’s been a lot of elaboration since I presented the question. I’ve had some intense, unexpected experiences in the past 10 months or so that have led me here. I have lots of questions and don’t expect anyone to want to elaborate if they don’t want to (for whatever reason), even if I ask them too. It’s cool:) But I appreciate your explanation very much and that you took time for it! Thank you:)
That being said, and this is for everyone, please know I’m reading all your posts, and observing the clicks in me as I read through them. I thank you all for sharing:)
WakingUp,
First a few tidbits. In Yoga there is no seniority. So what’s happening to you in 8 months may not happen to someone in 20 years, and that’s just fine. But on the other hand, in the early stages, mind plays a lot of tricks, since we are arresting its free play by doing asana, pranayama, meditation etc.
Now Pratyahara. It is a very crucial break-through point in 8-limbs sadhana. Patanjali recommends 2 sets of limbs: Secondary: asana, pranayam, yama, niyama (to be practiced concurrently) and Primary: dharana, dhyana and samadhi (to be practiced linearly). But, if you see keenly, while seconday limbs need external attention, primary ones are essentially internal. So, between the secondary and primary limbs, Pratyahara provides that break-through of anchoring awareness within by withdrawing the outward-bound senses. (someone rightly said, meditation only after pratyahara)
If your experience is a real one (and not a mind-trick) it will not only stay, but it will soon come under your conscious control. However, out of the five senses, the first to get consciously withdrawn is ‘odor’ as that is associated with Earth element and not sound. So, you need to let the experience take its own course. Keep the good practice going.
A friend of mine has recently started Taoist type pranayama exercises and he is also reports that he is going to these states. Once again backing up my point that it is not the acual meditation but it is the pranayama(the prelimary steps) which if practiced regularly will lead to the higher states where meditation can begin.
Trying to meditate is wasting your time.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33700]A friend of mine has recently started Taoist type pranayama exercises and he is also reports that he is going to these states. Once again backing up my point that it is not the acual meditation but it is the pranayama(the prelimary steps) which if practiced regularly will lead to the higher states where meditation can begin.
Trying to meditate is wasting your time.[/QUOTE]
Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.
No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever.
Its only today that I came to know about the term “Pratyahara” & after searching in this forum I found this thread.
Although I haven’t experienced anything even close to pratyahara I must mention that my physical energy has increased a lot.
Just wanted to tell you guys that practicing asanas & pranayamas alone didn’t prevent my anxiety disorder.
Another point worth mentioning is that Brahmacharya is something which I have never achieved. Is that what acted as the obstacle ?
Which is why I am trying some dharana/dhyna now. I wish I had started meditation back in 2008. :oops:
If you wan to know which pranayams & asanas I have been practicing just let me know.
[B]Why didn’t it work for me?[/B]
[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;56960]Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.
No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever.
Its only today that I came to know about the term “Pratyahara” & after searching in this forum I found this thread.
Although I haven’t experienced anything even close to pratyahara I must mention that my physical energy has increased a lot.
Just wanted to tell you guys that practicing asanas & pranayamas alone didn’t prevent my anxiety disorder.
Another point worth mentioning is that Brahmacharya is something which I have never achieved. Is that what acted as the obstacle ?
Which is why I am trying some dharana/dhyna now. I wish I had started meditation back in 2008. :oops:
If you wan to know which pranayams & asanas I have been practicing just let me know.
[B]Why didn’t it work for me?[/B][/QUOTE]
I have said this a time or two. Celibacy is fine for a monastic I guess if thats what they want to do and the restraint causes no mental imbalances.
For the lay or shall we say - the regular people - I view Brahmacharya as
[B]The wise moderation of activities.[/B]
It is possible that even in monastic life they may leak off without their knowledge, if they are also biologically still human beings
"Really? I have been practicing both pranayama & asana since 2008.
No Pratyahara happening here whatsoever"
Even if you practice asana and pranayam for eternities, still it will not cultivate the quality of pratyahara. Because it has nothing to do with these techniques in themselves, although it can certainly happen during the practice of these techniques. One thing which is essential for pratyahara is relaxation. Without relaxation, pratyahara is an impossibility. And it is not as though you have not experienced it before, don’t think it is is something special. You do it every day when you go to sleep - there is that sensory withdrawal, and the outer world has disappeared from your perception. You can perform the same sensory withdrawal - but with awareness, remaining totally alert and awake. That is the difference between meditation and sleep - in sleep you loose that quality of being a witness. But whether sleep or meditation - as far as pratyahara is concerned, it is the same - relaxation is a necessity. And it is this element which most people struggle with, as to how to come to a relaxation ? Particularly when you have been programmed with this idea that by performing all kinds of methods, that you can attain to deeper states of awareness. Not that deeper states of awareness are not possible through practicing a method - a method is totally necessary, and without a method the chances of coming to more awareness are like the chances of swallowing the ocean. But it is just that when you enter into the practice with an attachment towards an outcome - it destroys your capability for relaxation.
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;57035] a method is totally necessary, and without a method the chances of coming to more awareness are like the chances of swallowing the ocean. [/QUOTE]
Okay…but what is that method ?
[QUOTE=om_namah_shivay;57037]Okay…but what is that method ?[/QUOTE]
Amir doesn’t know the method.
Because he
is a 25 year old punk kid.
is a well read fraud and parrot of others words. (including mine)
is not in knowledge.
Hasn’t trodden the path therefore he gives no precise method. He instead speaks in ambiguity and grays based on things he’s read.
Has no higher authority to teach anything.
claims he is awakened but gives no definition or method. Nor can he elucidate the visual signs. He instead speaks in ambiguity and grays based on the things he’s read.
disparages the masters.
tells people not to read scripture
puts himself on youtube giving ‘sermons’
gathers chelas when he himself is un - accomplished.
is a slick talking shyster.
copy cats me…
If you read around you will find him parroting and elaborating on what I say. Others do it as well. The others I do not mind.
I gave the method. On the prior page. Will this work for you?
No. Most likely not.
You got to “turn everything on”. This is done through your practice of the limbs of yoga.
Beyond that I will not say “how” to turn everything on as you are not my student and this information should not be willy nilly tossed about the internet as some tool box like Amir Moron can get ahold of the information and use it to aggrandize his egoity and gather chelas (disciples).
Plus it’s a big subject!
Read up and study as much as is comfortable. Establish your own practice. Go take some yogasana classes. If after time you desire in your heart for something more . . . go find an authentic lineage that emphasis the techniques and not the guru - to receive initiation into.