The thought came after morning meditation…
There are constant amount of suffering and joy in the world. Distribution is quite unfair sometimes. When one suffers at the one end of the world, someone on the other side of the world might feel the highest pion of happiness…
By suffering or voluntarily renunciating some “goodies” we can influence on that distribution and make someone else unknown more happier…
What do you think?
I think, theres no constant amount of suffering and joy. Its a popular idea, but the basis doesn`t persuade me at all.
My opinion is that balance really exists, but suffering and joy are not opposites and absolute categories which must balance with each other.
Ok, here is my logic
There is a constant amount of energy…hope you agree.
There is constant amount of “material” (same as energy at some point :))
Everything consists of energy…as well as happiness
(well happiness and suffering are the same nature and if we look more deeply- same things.) But basically when you have plenty of food - you happy. When you are starving for months you unhappy:)
[QUOTE=CityMonk;37732]
(well happiness and suffering are the same nature and if we look more deeply- same things.) [/QUOTE]
thats what Ive meant too.
I agree about constant amount of energy, though never measured it 
Its more complicated about "material". And about food its too simplified (or too generalized).
Replete not always is happy. We have so many “needs” now…
After all, who loses if a man, that used to suffer from his routine life, reaches some new level of consciousness and feels happy with the same that used to hurt him?
Using your theory, would that mean that for every good thing I do, or for every happy moment I experience or impart upon another person someone, somewhere is going to suffer? I don’t think so.
I don’t think that the amount of joy in the world is somewhere balanced by an equal part of suffering. That would mean that we could never (in theory) achieve a world where everybody is happy and has what they need.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;37727]The thought came after morning meditation…
There are constant amount of suffering and joy in the world. Distribution is quite unfair sometimes. When one suffers at the one end of the world, someone on the other side of the world might feel the highest pion of happiness…
By suffering or voluntarily renunciating some “goodies” we can influence on that distribution and make someone else unknown more happier…
What do you think?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about the distribution of wealth and resources? I would absolutely agree, if that’s what you mean.
Apparently wealth and resources and subtly happiness and suffering, are results not causes or roots. Talking of roots, we may initially look at political and economic systems and excess or shortage of material things and a lot of other culprits to put the blame on. But, in each case if we dig deeper, we would inevitably reach some individual as the root and the impulses of greed, desire, aggression as the driving causes.
So, CityMonk, if you would rather think of ‘contentment’ (a Niyama) that needs no cause and a healthy interpretation of karma as the presenter of circumstances, a need to search for an equation between happiness and suffering will go away.
Also need to add that explanation of karma becomes empty punditry for the sufferers. A suffering person needs relief, and no philosophy. But eventually, the person needs to learn about the suffering. A truly ‘content’ person can help.
[QUOTE=YogiAdam;37762]Are you talking about the distribution of wealth and resources? I would absolutely agree, if that’s what you mean.[/QUOTE]
no, I just gave it as an example.
[QUOTE=CityMonk;38231]no, I just gave it as an example.[/QUOTE]
hmmm… that’s a very unusual concept. My girlfriend is always happy and bubbly and smiling. Are you suggesting she is hogging some of the happiness that could be enjoyed elsewhere? Should I tell her to stop being so happy? 
You need to start by being happy yourself. If your own supplies are low, then how are you going to distribute happiness to others?
My mother always taught me that the more love you give away, the more you have. It magically increases as you create it yourself.
Negativity has the same power. We choose what we create, and it really does (sorry) sound like a silly idea that there has to be a balance. I think nothing is that black and white. 
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38286]You need to start by being happy yourself. If your own supplies are low, then how are you going to distribute happiness to others?[/QUOTE]
This is exactly how I thought it works. I always thought that emotions were a little contagious. Hey!.. look everyone… I agree with SD!!
I believe it is only through suffering that we can truly experience happiness. Through love and compassion for all, we can someday eliminate suffering. And then everyone is happy. So what I think starts off as more of a balance between happiness and suffering, ends in only happiness. Or at least I hope!
But in answer to your question:
By suffering or voluntarily renunciating some “goodies” we can influence on that distribution and make someone else unknown more happier…
Merely suffering in solitude only impacts you. It makes no one else happy or happier. If you sacrifice and/or show love and compassion toward those who are suffering you are doing your part to end that suffering and helping them to become happier.
[QUOTE=lotusgirl;38296]I believe it is only through suffering that we can truly experience happiness. Through love and compassion for all, we can someday eliminate suffering. And then everyone is happy. So what I think starts off as more of a balance between happiness and suffering, ends in only happiness. Or at least I hope!
But in answer to your question:
Merely suffering in solitude only impacts you. It makes no one else happy or happier. If you sacrifice and/or show love and compassion toward those who are suffering you are doing your part to end that suffering and helping them to become happier.[/QUOTE]
Oh no!! What am I doing?? I just agreed with SD, and now I’m not sure I agree with LG (possible the person on this forum I respect the most)… I’m not sure it is a plausible concept, to eliminating suffering. It’s a bit like aspiring to eliminate death, or violence. Sure, it would be great, but I think it’s a world that just doesn’t exist. I think if we didn’t have a little selfishness within each of us, we wouldn’t have evolved this far. Sorry Lotusgirl, for challenging your point, please don’t hate me!
I also disagree with the respected Lotus girl ji. If you are suffering you are in no position to help anybody else, because you first need to help yourself. It is like this: in what position is somebody suffering from depression to help another person suffering from depression?
Distributing happiness is like osmosis. It goes from higher concentration to lower concentration and not vis versa. First have a high concentration of happiness yourself, and then you are in a position to distribute this happiness to other people. To do this it is OK for you to be selfish and concentrate on yourself.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;38307]I also disagree with the respected Lotus girl ji. If you are suffering you are in no position to help anybody else, because you first need to help yourself. It is like this: in what position is somebody suffering from depression to help another person suffering from depression?
Distributing happiness is like osmosis. It goes from higher concentration to lower concentration and not vis versa. First have a high concentration of happiness yourself, and then you are in a position to distribute this happiness to other people. To do this it is OK for you to be selfish and concentrate on yourself.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, you have to give to yourself, before you can give to others.
Oh YogiAdam, I can never hate you!
What I’m trying to say is that how can you really ever know happiness unless you’ve known suffering? I don’t think you can. It is through suffering that you learn what true happiness is. Once you learn what happiness is you can then help others who are suffering through love and compassion. Think of it this way. When you are having a bad day and you’re sad, do you not really appreciate a good day when you are happy? I know I do.
In his book, The ARt Of Happiness, the Dalai Lama says the first step in seeking happiness is learning. We have to learn how negative emotions and behaviors are harmful to us and how positive emotions are helpful. We must realize how these negative emotions are not only very bad and harmful to us personally but harmful to society and the future of the world. If your basic outlook is that suffering is negative and must be avoided at all costs and in some sense is a sign of failure, this will add a distinct psychological component of anxiety and intolerance when you encounter difficult circumstances, a feeling of being overwhelmed. If you accept that suffering is a natural part of your existence, this will make you more tolerant towards the adversities of life. Without this degree of tolerance towards your suffering, your life becomes miserable like it will never end.
The first of the Four Noble Truths is the Truth of Suffering. One must reflect on suffering because it is through this reflection that we see there is an alternative. How many times have you heard about someone who learned they have a deadly illness and has a limited time to live. Many of those same people, through their own suffering, learned mindfulness and happiness. They lived the rest of their days happier then they’ve ever been. They learned about life and happiness through their suffering.
It’s how we choose to look at suffering that makes a difference. If we avoid it, we don’t learn and we become less tolerant toward those who are suffering. If we look at suffering as a way to better understand our emotions, we can embrace happiness and help others who are suffering.
Now that you have reframed it in this way it is more acceptable. Yes, first of all one must suffer themselves to be able to empathise with anothers suffering. However, they must not only suffer, they must become trully happy themselves. If they are not, they will not be an example for the other. Therefore, as I am saying and I think Yogiadam is saying as well, one must begin with their own happiness first. First develop your own wealth of happiness before you go around distributing it to others.
I think I just needed to better explain why suffering leads to happiness. It is through understanding what is behind the suffering that we can better understand and embrace happiness. That is what we share with others.
The only way to begin with your own happiness first is understanding suffering. That is how you develop your own wealth of happiness that you will distribute to others. But you are correct in that you must cultivate the happiness within you first. Again, you accomplish that by understanding suffering.
