Do YOU have fear of DEATH?

Spirituality
#1

Just a story about my spiritual endeavor.

I had a conversation with one guru. We were talking about the fear of death. I was saying that I do understand that the body will die off and something will remain, SO I wont die completely…nothing is important…and things like that

We had this nice conversation for about an hour.

Suddenly he got behind my back and started to choke me. I thought he is joking, but after few seconds I’ve realized that he is absolutely seriously want to choke me to death. And he asked: do you afraid now?? I got terrified, I got so scared that I’m going to die now! I started to fight back and… fainted…

After few minutes I was awake and he was sitting in front of me like nothing has happened and wanted to continue the conversation. I did not want to talk at all…I said so many beautiful words about fearless me:), and everything I have said was a LIE, total hypocrisy from my side…but I really believed that I’m NOT FEAR TO DIE…

#2

Not sure how appropriate your thread is…as it made me feel very uncomfortable…

The ‘fight-or-flight response’ comes to mind, in my opinion your reaction was totally normal and natural.

#3

I see nothing inappropriate about it.

With that said, I fear death and I’m ok with that. Even my guru has said that he’s sure he’ll be scared when he’s on his death bed. Talk about the ultimate transition. :slight_smile:

CityMonk, that’s quite a relationship that you have with your guru! Very cool!

#4

Yeah, talk about holding up the mirror for you.
(my first reaction is, “Wow, I hope he knew what he was doing. Passing someone out is probably pretty tricky.”)
So, you’ve decided your formerly held belief was (in your words) a lie. What does the death of that lie allow to live in you now?

#5

[QUOTE=Techne;31737]
So, you’ve decided your formerly held belief was (in your words) a lie. What does the death of that lie allow to live in you now?[/QUOTE]

Can you please rephrase the question?

#6

[QUOTE=David;31734]

CityMonk, that’s quite a relationship that you have with your guru! Very cool![/QUOTE]

Thank you, David for your post and I think support in this thread:).

As I said in many many threads guru is not all the times the gray-hair-and-ling beard-man sitting in the lotus pose and telling nice words of wisdom.

Karlos kastoneda came to the mind suddenly, I have not read all his books, but remember that Nagval (kinda spiritual teacher) was very rough with his followers as well.

Also, David, I remember the post you made about acceptance. There was a great story about the guru who was paying to the guy to annoy students.

#7

[QUOTE=omamana;31731]

The ‘fight-or-flight response’ comes to mind, in my opinion your reaction was totally normal and natural.[/QUOTE]

OK, you said NATURAL, agree fight-or-flight comes from our animal body just like …

-it is natural for human to eat as mush as he can including fat, meat, and other “unhealthy” staff
-it is natural for human to sleep when he want (not going party or watch VT all night)
-it is natural for homo-sapience to kill another homo-sapience for food, territory, etc (we still do, but on another terms)
-it is natural for a male to be monogamous
-it is natural for human to endure pain without painkillers
-etc, etc, etc

… hope you understand

[QUOTE=omamana;31731]

The ‘fight-or-flight response’ comes to mind, in my opinion your reaction was totally normal and natural.[/QUOTE]

I’m not discussing my reaction to it. [I]The point is that[/I] we BS about many things we have no idea about.

#8

I am fearful of death because I have a lot of stuff on my agenda that I have not done yet. I am only 20…so yea. Maybe after I have done everything, there will still be something more to do…there always is.

#9

Death is not something that I concern myself with at this stage…I want to live life to the fullest and become successful

#10

Sure: I’ll try it this way:

During this experience you changed your mind: noticed that you were lying to yourself about not being afraid of dying. Now that you’re not using your energy to tell yourself that lie, what do you get to do instead?

#11

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31741]OK, you said NATURAL, agree fight-or-flight comes from our animal body just like …

-it is natural for human to eat as mush as he can including fat, meat, and other “unhealthy” staff
-it is natural for human to sleep when he want (not going party or watch VT all night)
-it is natural for homo-sapience to kill another homo-sapience for food, territory, etc (we still do, but on another terms)
-it is natural for a male to be monogamous
-it is natural for human to endure pain without painkillers
-etc, etc, etc

… hope you understand[/QUOTE]
From your perspective, do you really see those things as natural? From my perspective I dont agree with the first one, second one yes, third one no, fourth one depends on the person, fifth one may be case dependent.

#12

Aside from the body’s instinct for survival, I think the only part of us that freaks out about dying is the most temporal part of ourselves, the ego. I don’t know how certainly any of us can predict how we will react to a particular moment. I’ve had experiences where I just knew I was gonna die and I was very calm. A few other times I was scared out of my mind. The only real comfort I find is knowing that people have been dying for a long, long time and it’s simply part of the Earth School curriculum. We will all inevitably get to trip out to that ride eventually, so my question is more along the lines of this:

  • I am going to die. And I’ll be dead for a long, long time. Why am I not doing the things I know I want to do? -

This question always stings a bit, but that’s another topic. It’s easy to talk about death with our heads, yet other parts of us seem to have a lot more to say about it…

Hope you are all well…!

Peace,
J

#13

Was it fear of death, or fear of that particular experience? If someone said, would you be scared to pass away in the blink of an eye with no pain? Then someone else said, im gonna choke you to death, which sounds more frightening? He did not kill you, he caused you pain, two completely different things. In a sense you did die by fainting, so once the choking caused you to faint/die, then how did you feel? Not when you woke up, but when you were out?

#14

I don’t fear death as much as I don’t welcome it now. I’ve spent a lot of time with natives over the past couple of years to appreciate the idea if a good day to die. But to live - so much to do and see.

#15

I think that is an amazing experience, and lesson. Thank you for posting it.

I have some viewpoints on my own death that differ depending on the circumstances. As an example, I am currently traveling to places I have never been to before and often find myself in situations that are very scary, very dangerous, and I am not accustomed to it. Being in a car that passes a bus at high speeds on a narrow road that climbs around a mountain with no barricade with tires spinning; careening into uncontrolled traffic on the back of a wobbly bike; coming down with terrible sickness in a foreign country, far from hospitals - - in these situations I often find it very easy to relax myself by surrendering to the notion that death is an [B]always[/B] present danger, and it is only at that moment that I have become aware of it. I accept the circumstances at these times, and remind myself that Death is natural, will absolutely come, and there is nothing to be afraid of. I feel gratefulness for the life that I have lived, and feel that if that moment is to be my last, I am happy to greet it with a calm mind.

On the other hand…
if my wet shoe slips when I’m trying to find my way down a mountain while trekking, and for a moment I teeter over a thousand meter high valley… my heart jumps. After all of the practice of yoga, of the study of the self - I am grateful to say that my heart only jumps for a moment before I can calmly continue on (with a more mindful and relieved mindset), but it still jumps. The fear is there, the fear that says, “You almost bought a one-way ticket to the end of your existence, just there, and there was nothing you could have done about it”.

I guess it’s easy when your arms are wrapped around the waist of your bike driver to compromise life, to think about your values and let your grip relax, knowing that straining and being inflexible in the light of the inevitable will only make it harder to flow naturally to the destination (as any motorcyclist knows). To know that death does not care if you are afraid of it or now, and will swiftly take you where you need to go without your consent…

Sigh.
Enough for today.

#16

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;31749]From your perspective, do you really see those things as natural? .[/QUOTE]

Yes, Considering that our body is the part of Mother Nature, and because of “ALL THESE NATURAL” things the human is on the top of the food chain.

… and many religions and philosophies are trying to “fight” that “animal nature of the human” by promoting things like compassion, sharing, loyalty, chastity, love, non-violence, vegetarianism, conquest and restrain of the body needs such as fasting, and alike. As well as they promote conquest of the mind: desires and fears, including the fear of death…

Ans this is thread for another topic…:slight_smile:

#17

[QUOTE=suryadaya;31773]I am currently traveling to places I have never been to before and often find myself in situations that are very scary, very dangerous, and I am not accustomed to it. Being in a car that passes a bus at high speeds on a narrow road that climbs around a mountain with no barricade with tires spinning; careening into uncontrolled traffic on the back of a wobbly bike; coming down with terrible sickness in a foreign country, far from hospitals - .[/QUOTE]

Suryadaya, this is interesting and funny, because the same things I was telling to my guru:))

I was involved in so many dangerous activities that I thought is an indicator of my fearless in front of face of the Death…

#18

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;31752] He did not kill you, he caused you pain, two completely different things. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, my reply is unrelated to topic. FYI - proper choke doesn’t hurt. (ask any brazilian jiu-jitsy guy:)

#19

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31729]Just a story about my spiritual endeavor.

I had a conversation with one guru. We were talking about the fear of death. I was saying that I do understand that the body will die off and something will remain, SO I wont die completely…nothing is important…and things like that

We had this nice conversation for about an hour.

Suddenly he got behind my back and started to choke me. I thought he is joking, but after few seconds I’ve realized that he is absolutely seriously want to choke me to death. And he asked: do you afraid now?? I got terrified, I got so scared that I’m going to die now! I started to fight back and… fainted…

After few minutes I was awake and he was sitting in front of me like nothing has happened and wanted to continue the conversation. I did not want to talk at all…I said so many beautiful words about fearless me:), and everything I have said was a LIE, total hypocrisy from my side…but I really believed that I’m NOT FEAR TO DIE…[/QUOTE]

I think your guru is just a little crazy but then again, it’s not my problem, is it? :slight_smile:

Of course your body will react in this way, or you would already be dead. Without this type of fear we can’t survive and I don’t see it as “fear of death” in the more philosophical sense.

Do I fear death (in the philosophical sense now, I mean)? Not really. And that’s got more to do with the fact that it’s unavoidable than whether or not I have a soul that will somehow live after my body dies.

I have however worked in a few old peoples’ homes and there are many things about dying that scare me, really scare me. Like dying slowly in a lot of pain. Or being left alone for years, forgotten by the few freinds and relatives that may still be around.

All of that scares me. If then the final part is that I go out like a light and that’s all there is to it and I am no more and will not ever fell, think or sense anything ever again, then that’s fine. However, since that’s coming whether I want it to or not I see no reason to rush into it. Like for instance by haivng someone trying to choke me to death…

:slight_smile:

#20

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31779]Sorry, my reply is unrelated to topic. FYI - proper choke doesn’t hurt. (ask any brazilian jiu-jitsy guy:)[/QUOTE]
well you got me there :slight_smile: Did not know that about choking.