Do YOU have fear of DEATH?

Spirituality
#61

[QUOTE=CityMonk;38817]BY the way… the human being is the only one spice on the Earth who aware of his own mortality… [/QUOTE]
Is it for sure?

I think, work in morgue or something like that cant reveal you from a fear of death. This sits much deeper, and theres a reason for it.
The way, about which kareng is talking - just blinding yourself. No offence. When you feel the death is coming and [B]really understand what it means to you[/B], there appears a contradiction with the threat that can damage your potential achievements here.

#62

Hang on…I expect to have fear before the death process if what precedes it is horrible, physically and lengthy in duration. If I am asleep or in a coma, or given something to put me out…will I fear death then? No.

Is there anything to fear once you have entered the death state…according to Buddhists there can be in what you see…that is why they have grotesque pictures around them of death sights , the idea is to familiarise yourself with these things so that you wont be scared when you are momentarily faced with them…fear may cause the wrong route.

Is there any truth in their suggestions of what processes happen, in order, listed? well I can only speak for the first one which I have experienced…the air comes out of ear, truth, fact yes it does, so, I expect the rest to be true as well…sorry but I do.

I remember hearing about a woman who had attempted suicide and had been brought back to life…she commented that unlike people who talk of near death experiences as being good, hers wasn’t, she saw demon like figures, (of a christian format) devils and burning hells…She was now more terrified of the death state then ever before.
Here, the Buddhist understanding of the death states would have helped her.

#63

As i see, for now, there are fears of:
[ul]
[li]the things can kill you (feeling pain, pre- death process),
[/li][li]the actual process of dying (more subtle, I guess, thats what you are talking about), [/li][li]the moment of the final death, [/li][li]being dead (what it is)... [/li][/ul] Maybe its wrong to separate them - they are mostly mixed in different proportions on a particular level. And it`s OK to have some, i think.
It may happen differently, as you mentioned, so how can you prepare?
I choose evolving consciousness, not “training” like that.

#64

[QUOTE=Sasha;38891]As i see, for now, there are fears of:
[ul]
[li]the things can kill you (feeling pain, pre- death process),
[/li][li]the actual process of dying (more subtle, I guess, thats what you are talking about), [/li][li]the moment of the final death, [/li][li]being dead (what it is)... [/li][/ul] Maybe its wrong to separate them - they are mostly mixed in different proportions on a particular level. And it`s OK to have some, i think.
It may happen differently, as you mentioned, so how can you prepare?
I choose evolving consciousness, not “training” like that.[/QUOTE]

I like this separation you made… and I think that the some problems arise because of mixing these…

#65

Hi,

Fear of death is often ,invariably, attachment to life.

Attachment<<…>>>aversion,how is it to feel neither?

Though it’s likely a lot to do with fear of the unknown.

What hapens next, and all that?

Best of luck!!

#66

Nirvana!

#67

Do these guys fear death?

You betcha!

#68

Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
As i see, for now, there are fears of:

* the things can kill you (feeling pain, pre- death process),
* the actual process of dying (more subtle, I guess, that`s what you are talking about),
* the moment of the final death,
* being dead (what it is)...

Maybe its wrong to separate them - they are mostly mixed in different proportions on a particular level. And its OK to have some, i think.
It may happen differently, as you mentioned, so how can you prepare?
I choose evolving consciousness, not “training” like that.

Hi Sasha City Monk and all… interesting…I only see the 1st two points

It depends on your lineage I believe…There is consciousness in the death process which if not handled, interferes.
By training before you die you keep control of your consciousness otherwise you may be consumed with fear and other thoughts which redirect you to unwelcome dimensions. The ideal is to have nothing at all in your head but, as consciousness is present this is difficult, hence the training. E.G. If you familiarise yourself with what will see then your conscious mind wont be thrown by what you see.

A monk was dying in a street in Tibet (cant remember why…I think he was hit by animal driven cart) Another monk realising he was dying rushed over to him and quietly, in his ear, repeated the words AH AH AH AH AH …This was to remind him to hold nothing in his head and to hold onto this minimal thought as he died AND in the death process. Just Ah…
keeping his consciousness, minimal.

What do you exactly mean by evolving consciousness Sasha I dont understand this…what is the technique, theory etc Always interested in evolving

#69

[QUOTE=kareng;38931]
…By training before you die you keep control of your consciousness otherwise you may be consumed with fear and other thoughts which redirect you to unwelcome dimensions…

…What do you exactly mean by evolving consciousness Sasha I dont understand this…what is the technique, theory etc Always interested in evolving[/QUOTE]
Cant speak surely about dimensions, but here is what I think on the training subject: this is just trying to get used to particular circumstances, and you dont know exactly if you feel the same when the time will come.
Though your approach may be better than no practice at all (if its safe), I think its better to evolve in more general way.
Yoga methods are good for it.
P.S. Tibetan yogis have an accent in their tuition on a death aspect (search on “Chikkhai bardo”, i read a little about it in the “Tibetan yoga of dream”).

#70

Thanks Sasha…I will follow this up

#71

Sasha…when you say yoga methods are good for it…do you mean that you would practice yoga methods near and at and during death?

#72

Maybe, I will.
For clarity, I havent meant just doing asanas, though look at B.K.S. Iyengar in his age. I think its more important to reach and [U]save[/U] this level of consciousness, that gets you realize the natural freedom you have.

#73

Ahh I get you now…yes I think thats a good answer…enlightenment would be something in line with that…this makes me wonder on why there is a focus of the death experience in tibet say? Is it for those who 'might not, or have not gained enlightenment in this lifetime?

I will have to get my books out.

Thanks Sasha

#74

Back to the drawing board I think…there is obviously something Im not understanding…is it an alternative in gaining enlightenment… different method/s

#75

[QUOTE=kareng;39026]Is it for those who 'might not, or have not gained enlightenment in this lifetime?
[/QUOTE]
I guess for those of them (us) :), who find this approach suitable.
Mentioned it as an example that you are not alone on your path

#76

Thank you Sasha

#77

[QUOTE=CityMonk;31729]Just a story about my spiritual endeavor.
Suddenly he got behind my back and started to choke me. I thought he is joking, but after few seconds I’ve realized that he is absolutely seriously want to choke me to death. And he asked: do you afraid now?? I got terrified, I got so scared that I’m going to die now! I started to fight back and… fainted…
[/QUOTE]

This is sad, for me, to hear that a (so-called) spiritual teacher did this to you (or anyone). It sounds like an example of “spiritual abuse” which happens in many different religious traditions. One book I enjoyed along these lines was “The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power” by Joel Kramer and Diana Alstad. I enjoy yoga as a process where we can express and explore spiritual direction from within, and without the abusive tendencies that can happen from leaders, systems, etc where an agenda is prioritized above the person. What this person did was simply unacceptable in any spiritual tradition.

#78

Spiritual teacher or not this would have really angered me i have to comment, he might have come unstuck if it had been my throat he’d choked Bifff and not good for a Buddhist

#79

Excellent post, apples and oranges , death and being choked, but I see the point-it brought you to a threshold and to part of your core, the fight or flight animal part. Like the famous quote it’s not the destination but the trip. Some trips are nasty and some are nice. Hospice, the Western way to die seems nice, I wonder. In Carlos Casteneda’s 2nd book( I think, there are several and it been a while ), at the end to go to the next step in his training he has to fully identify with his spirit body and consider this world totally illusion by jumping off a cliff. If Don Juan had pushed it may have robbed him of the experience. In the Tibetan book of the Dead, this trip is laid out with what to expect, but like any trip done too fast you’d miss the markers and turn left when you should’ve turned right. Death comes to all and many people see Life as preparation for dying well, I don’t know much about it but after the Casteneda book I was alone in the high mountains and put myself on that cliff’s edge of choice, it’s a tremendous meditation and strangely inviting if, like I almost did at the time, you believe what you read. Another question: Is death necessary ? There’s a small medditeranean jellyfish recently discovered to be immortal, barring violence; it regenerates tissue at birthing, I think I remember. What happens to philosophy without death ? Will our convictions lack the depth death can give ? Will Religions convert to primarily Love-machines ? The courting of death is a dance where Death leads. I think maybe yoga trys to make Death follow in that dance.

#80

It is simply humanizing, to have a scare like that. So just when you feel like, through your yoga, you are breaking through so much human “stuff” and getting more in touch and all that we strive for, a regular old human experience is there to remind you that everyone has the same potential and has similar struggles and bring you right back down to earth, which is where we currently live. We are not better than any individual that does not “do” yoga. They may not participate in asanas or take a class, but they very well may have yoga in their experience in many other ways. We are all human.