~ Peace ~ Love ~ Compassion ~ Acceptance ~ Forgiveness ~
Mostly, Good Ego.
The word ‘Ego’ would not have been used by any Yogi before the time of Freud. What you really want to do is to be aware that the ‘is’ of ‘identity’ is a cognitive construct.
This will open a lot of potential just to be aware of this knowledge. The other word that is used often is ‘detachment,’ but this could easily be translated to ‘highest perspective.’ The translations themselves changes the possibilities.
What you are looking for is Mature Engagement rather than replacing the experienced world with a in head delusion which most people seem to be doing nowadays.
All language is limited, thankfully experience is infinite.
[QUOTE=Pawel;64349]
When I was reading your posts, I was thinking about love, in a sense of decision to care for good (development and happiness) of someone/yourself. From my experience, this attitude works the best. You (your ego, instincts and other parts of you) need love to grow and mature. You can’t ignite a feeling of love, but as “ego” you can decide and act in a loving way. So maybe try to think what may be the reasons for selfishness, guilt-tripping etc. that you experience? Is there just malice or maybe unexpressed need for attention, action, affection etc.? If you don’t like a person in the mirror, try to see beyond that, search for positive things. See how much suffering this person experienced, how much strain is on her and how badly she needs care and support. Love is a very powerful perspective. For example, if there is a guilt-tripping voice in you, bring it into the light of love. Ask what is the aim of this voice. What wisdom, support, direction it brings. If there is something meaningful (e.g. when this voice is accusing you of hurting your friend, then I think its worth to listen), extract it and act upon it. If there isn’t, realize that it doesn’t bring anything important. I found that in light of loving perspective such voices lose power.
Just few thoughts…[/QUOTE]
It does appear that a lot my inner voices come from a place of hate rather than love (in terms of myself). Of course, I would like to love myself but it appears I am not truly there yet. Whenever I try to come from a loving place it feels artificial…kind of like a band-aid of some sorts. I can look in the mirror and say, “Yes, you are insert positive trait”, but that has proved ineffective in the past. I guess because its like receiving a compliment and feeling good…but then what happens when you receive a criticism? You end up feeling bad because you have attached yourself emotionally to such words. It is almost no different than using drugs or other material things to boost your mood/esteem.
Like for example, what if you believe you are a “caring” and “compassionate” person. You validate this “trait” as well as others around you. However, suppose one day you encounter a person who tells you that you aren’t compassionate? What if it is more than one person? Does this change your own reality and perspective?
Or using a negative example, suppose you believe you are selfish and there have been people who have validated this “trait”. However, one day you encounter a group of people who say you are “giving” and “unselfish”. Does this change your reality?
I guess I attach myself too much on how the world views me and how I ultimately view myself. Ideally, one should know the truth about themselves and not seek external validation for this “truth”. You are who you are…negative, positive, or whatever. The sad part is that at times I feel like I am living my life to appease some ideal construct of “me” rather than who I truly am.
[QUOTE=Kasi;64383]The word ‘Ego’ would not have been used by any Yogi before the time of Freud. What you really want to do is to be aware that the ‘is’ of ‘identity’ is a cognitive construct.
This will open a lot of potential just to be aware of this knowledge. The other word that is used often is ‘detachment,’ but this could easily be translated to ‘highest perspective.’ The translations themselves changes the possibilities.
What you are looking for is Mature Engagement rather than replacing the experienced world with a in head delusion which most people seem to be doing nowadays.[/QUOTE]
What stuck out in your post is: [B]the ‘is’ of ‘identity’ is a cognitive construct[/B] as well as the point about [B]in head delusion[/B]. However, can you explain a little bit more in depth? I think I get what you are saying but I am not sure.
[QUOTE=a.mi;64420]What stuck out in your post is: [B]the ‘is’ of ‘identity’ is a cognitive construct[/B] as well as the point about [B]in head delusion[/B]. However, can you explain a little bit more in depth? I think I get what you are saying but I am not sure.[/QUOTE]
Ok,
People do many kinds of actions, but connecting those actions to ones identity is a part of the ‘is’ of ‘identity.’ So if you consider an action bad, then when you see someone doing that action, you have titled the doer as ‘bad.’ This is just a construct, a limitation of human perception.
If you separate the action from the person by saying ‘I thought that action is bad’ but do not identify it as the definition of the person, you open the possibility for the person to change their action.
You will not grow if you limit yourself with an identity. You open the possibilities when you see actions as something external to your identity that can be changed.
When you engage in actions that are fulfilling to you in a larger context, you are following your Dharma.
[QUOTE=Kasi;64426]Ok,
People do many kinds of actions, but connecting those actions to ones identity is a part of the ‘is’ of ‘identity.’ So if you consider an action bad, then when you see someone doing that action, you have titled the doer as ‘bad.’ This is just a construct, a limitation of human perception.
If you separate the action from the person by saying ‘I thought that action is bad’ but do not identify it as the definition of the person, you open the possibility for the person to change their action.
You will not grow if you limit yourself with an identity. You open the possibilities when you see actions as something external to your identity that can be changed.
When you engage in actions that are fulfilling to you in a larger context, you are following your Dharma.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for illustrating your point better. I do agree that we should separate action from the definition of the person. It is easy to put people into “boxes” based on the actions they have performed regardless of whether those actions are deemed “good” or “bad”. I majored in marketing (although not working in it now) so I am very much used to categorizing people based on not only their demographics but also the activities or “actions” they perform daily. Maybe that is why it is so difficult to separate from that mentality. I basically studied how to create and sell “identity” to the masses :???:. Thus, I base my identity on the actions I perform or the labels that I and others choose to describe me.
I am hoping my yoga practice will lead me towards my “true” self. I am tired of living this facade. I am doing things in order to reinforce this falsified “identity” of me rather than truly engaging in actions that fulfill me in the greater aspect of being.
So maybe I used “ego” in the wrong way when I started this thread. I think a better word would be “identity” in this case. I think I do not like my “identity” and can never learn to love my “identity” as they are just labels and such.
I should add, an action is tied to time and place. As time moves the action no longer exists but the karma of that action may persist. At a new time point a new and different action is possible, and that action may alleviate the karma of previous actions.
An identity is also tied to time and place. You are not the same person you were a year ago, an day ago, an hour ago, a minute ago. At each moment you have the opportunity to engage in an action. If your picture is large enough, this action can be congruent with Dharma. When it is, you will have your greatest fulfillment in your daily activity.
The concept of Brahman (or if you like, infinity) allows you to enlarge this picture to it’s up-most degree. So when you meditate, it is not about dissolving the ego as much as it is about expanding the perspective. There is no ego to dissolve.
[QUOTE=Kasi;64432]…If your picture is large enough, this action can be congruent with Dharma…&…When you engage in actions that are fulfilling to you in a larger context, you are following your Dharma…
[/QUOTE]
Can you define Dharma in yogic terms?
[QUOTE=ray_killeen;64436]Can you define Dharma in yogic terms?[/QUOTE]
Dharma has been translated as ‘natural order’ but I think a better way to think of it is ‘natural flow’ as in the way Cs?kszentmih?lyi expresses it.
Your environment and your genetics are suited perfectly to certain actions at this point in time.
To find this takes knowing ones self and knowing ones surroundings. Nature creates natural boundaries to actions. When we understand nature, we can create what we want to see, for example understanding the Bernoulli’s principle allowed us to create sailboats to travel on sea and airplanes to travel by air.
There are also natural social boundaries. Psychologists have shown that children have an innate concept of justice at quite a young age.
People have needs for survival and reproduction, and these lesser aspects of human nature can be taken advantage of by advertisers. But if this feels wrong to you, you are listening to a larger context beyond your individual identity and needs of the moment. But if this feels right to you, than it is your personal Dharma in this world.
Dharma is not good or bad, it just flows.
[QUOTE=Kasi;64441]
Your environment and your genetics are suited perfectly to certain actions at this point in time.
[/QUOTE]
Is it possible for someone to be in the “wrong” environment. I know that your surroundings are what you make them out to be but what if you are living in a community/culture that is just inherently wrong for you?
Can you suggest some literature on Dharma?
[QUOTE=a.mi;64447]Is it possible for someone to be in the “wrong” environment. I know that your surroundings are what you make them out to be but what if you are living in a community/culture that is just inherently wrong for you?
Can you suggest some literature on Dharma?[/QUOTE]
Of course it is. But you have to assess where you are at the moment. It would be an easy thing to say, change your environment or even change yourself.
But in reality, you may have to stay with your job as a means to provide for your family and your own welfare. But you can plan ahead to create a means to be able to leave it by saving money and looking at other options.
You know your situation best and can use your own intellect (yes intellect, the ancient had nothing against it at all!) to figure a means to solve it for yourself.
One of the best books on Dharma is the classic Bhagavad Gita, but I would say that the translation you should read which is still the best one and has the least agenda is the one by Sri Aurobindo.
http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Its-Message-Aurobindo/dp/0941524787
[QUOTE=Kasi;64441]…But if this feels right to you, than it is your personal Dharma in this world. Dharma is not good or bad, it just flows.[/QUOTE]
Once one comes to their yoga, Dharma as you described will be recognized.
Realizing of course Yoga is in religion but there is no religion in yoga.
[QUOTE=Kasi;64477]Of course it is. But you have to assess where you are at the moment. It would be an easy thing to say, change your environment or even change yourself.
But in reality, you may have to stay with your job as a means to provide for your family and your own welfare. But you can plan ahead to create a means to be able to leave it by saving money and looking at other options.
You know your situation best and can use your own intellect (yes intellect, the ancient had nothing against it at all!) to figure a means to solve it for yourself.
One of the best books on Dharma is the classic Bhagavad Gita, but I would say that the translation you should read which is still the best one and has the least agenda is the one by Sri Aurobindo.
http://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-Its-Message-Aurobindo/dp/0941524787[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the recommendation. I will see if it is at my local library first before ordering a copy.
Yes, I do need to leave my current situation but I do not know where yet. I am young, single, and child-free so the world is my oyster. I do know that I want to move somewhere that promotes green living and isn’t so dependable on automobiles for transportation. The environment I am in right now is unhealthy and is incompatible with my desired lifestyle. However, I have not found my calling yet. I simply do not know where I am needed or supposed to be at in this lifetime.
Society tells me to envision a future with a husband, house, and kids but I do not desire those things. A life partner would be nice but only time will tell with that one. I do not want kids. I work to live and not live to work so I am not some career chaser. I don’t know…
But thanks for the book recommendation.
[QUOTE=a.mi;64517] I do know that I want to move somewhere that promotes green living and isn’t so dependable on automobiles for transportation. [/QUOTE]
Inside you there is already a yearning to engage in the next step for the human race. There are many resources out there, get involved externally with them and see how it effects how you feel internally.
I like this site http://shareable.net though it is focused on communities on the west coast. There are already many car-free sustainable places around the world, from South America to Edinburgh (have you checked out Findhorn?).
If nothing is holding you back, why not try something else?
[QUOTE=a.mi;64182]The first is about ego…What is the purpose of ego? Do we really need it?[/QUOTE]Ego has his own functions but should be controlled by Atma, not Atma to be dominated by Ego.
[QUOTE=a.mi;64182]Hi,
I am new to the forum and have been reading a lot of interesting stuff on here about yoga. However, there are a couple of questions that I wanted to post in order to gain some insight.
The first is about ego…What is the purpose of ego? Do we really need it? I have read that the ego necessitates boundaries between “us” and the “world” and that without these boundaries then we would lose the ability to care for our own personal needs. However, I feel that the majority of the “negative” emotions I feel in life are due to attacks or threats on my ego.
If one were to reach the end goal of yoga (self-realization), would there be no ego? Or would one’s ego no longer be threatened?
I know that repressing one’s ego is bad but mine is so jealous, selfish, materialistic, and vain. I need to let go of attachments but it is so hard. I cannot simply “detach” because I still yearn. I have begun reading the yoga sutras but sometimes it just goes over my head.
Anyway, I hope that my questions are constructed clearly enough. I can always reiterate if anyone needs more clarification. Thanks![/QUOTE]
You are clear headed, knowledgable, and you base your opinion on self expereince.
The ego is there, and it makes you suffer when you get in conflict with other egos. Try to turn attention to those parts of your being, those thoughts, emotions, will impulses what go against the usual trend of self conseravtion. I am talking about moral impulses. Everyone has them. The picture is not black and white. There is not only ego, but there is something in you already what works against this ego, maybe yet weak, and it’s voice unheard. The best time to try to listen to this vpoice, is in the morning, in that little space between sleeping and waking up.
There is also a way to make this voice stronger. Try to be healthy. Try to do not indulge in sensual excesses. Try to feed your soul with art, and spirituality. Spend more time in nature. Listen to music what lifts you.
Read the Bhagavad Gita, the Gospel of John or any other time tested work of spirituality. Pretend that you are better than you are, and act like it. Sooner or later your actions become habits, and you will become what you have pretended to be. Be true about this, though. There is great tension between acting like you’re a followerr of Christ, for example, and knowing how many times you have failed just this very day. And that’s good. It keeps the ego at bay. Our failures, and having negative emotions like hatred, jealousy, are failures in our emulation of Christ (or Self, or atman), are good. They make us remember who we really are, how limited and small, and selfish we are.
When you think you have mastered something a test will come. Unpexpected situations will test our patience. If under heavy load and unexpectedly tried you are still able to maintain your calm, and inner peace, than you indeed accomplished something. All the events in our lives are such tests. And our failures are the best teachers. Our errors are our own. We made them. They are linked to us organicly. Without facing these, no real self knowledge is possible. Without real self knowledge, no spiritual discipline can be maintained for long, as the monsters of the unknown deep will steer your ship just when you would not want that to happen.
The ego is what we have, it is the lead what can be turned into gold. Naturally, it will than cease to be lead, so this is a mortification process. You have to give yourself up and try to rise from personal interest to universal. This will not make you lose your identity. When the ego is not in the way, only than we are able to fully perform what we have came her for. Because we have came here with a master plan. That plan has been devised by our immortal self, residing among the higher hierarchies, before we have been born. Because it bears the stamps of heaven on itself, (God approved), that plan exceeds in wisdom our human one. Thus often it may seem we are aimless, and without a track, or we have to expereince bad things. These are all part of the plan.
Our very fate, place of birth, parents, traits, are all part of the plan. We came here to learn, and become something more by this expereince. And the plan is not forced on us. It is like this: you are among all heavenly beings, in communion, they all see you, you see them all, they all know what and who you are, fully, and you are permeated by their higher wisdom, love, knowledge and power. There are no boundaries like the ego, in heaven. You are drenched in wisdom, light, knowledge. And because of this, you see clearly how your earlier life-lives were, and what did you contribute to the whole of existence. And because you are enlighetned, and aware, the desire to make up for the bad you have brought into the world, will rise as a moral necessity. You simply cannot accept that the world have become worse because of you. Than, togheter and led and helped by the higher wisdom available to you there, you make a plan. Often, in our anxious desire to make things better, we try to take too heavy tasks on us. So in a way, they even help us, to only take up burdens we will be able to carry. Because of this, everyone faces only challanges one is able to face. They might seem very hard or outright impossible when we meet them, once down in our bio-skafanader, and without the knowledge and wisdom of the higher beings there to help us. But this is how we aquire and develop such havenley qualities of our own !
You see, we are destined to become great. But not great as we imagine that usually, coming from our ego.
Life in not about getting rid of ignorance, and into the nirvana. Life is becoming something more. It’s not a loss of identity, but gaining a higher one. I have been told that we are actually the next hiarachy, the next promotion of angelical beings. We are to become the angels of freedom and love. (surely, the sophists will say, even becoming a deva, is not the ultimate goal … but let us not deal with that yet. In order for a baby to become a man he firts needs to become a child. So we must take things one step of a time.)
Let us take a little detour to look at Yoga Sutra and get technical.
Yoga-Sūtra presents a unique concept of a ?thinking process.? It considers the thinking process as a function of mind energy and distinguishes it from the thinking apparatus, like brain. In fact, thinking apparatus is also multilayered, comprising brain, mānas and buddhi as the respective counterparts of physical, astral and causal bodies. But the apparatus is only a tool, a processor, with no intelligence of its own. The intelligence comes from the mind that collaborates with and provides energy to the thinking apparatus to initiate a thinking process.
Mind is not an organ and it doesn?t have any particular location in the body. Then, what is mind? A human mind is an abridged version of Universal Mind. The extremely subtle Universal Mind can and does interpenetrate all the objects and flows through our body too. Instead of remaining a catalyst for sharing universal knowledge, a part of the free-flowing Universal Mind gets dragged into the thinking process and is enslaved by “ego”. This ?resident? mind tries to create its own personalized knowledge.
What is ego?
The sense organs bring home signals as raw material for thoughts. When the signals reach the thinking apparatus a thought results as a composite of physical, astral and causal elements; processed respectively by brain, mānas and buddhi. Intensity of such thought composition and the emotional energy embedded in a thought together create an impression or saṃskāra. But then, because it is stored in memory, it serves as ?a structure of predisposition.? It greets the sense data, filters and sculpts it with a personal stamp even before a thought is formed.
The accumulation of saṃskāra thus shapes one?s emotional disposition, personal likes and dislikes, and generates ahamkāra (ego). Under its influence buddhi breeds duality in thinking, based on a perceived separation between our own self and ?all-that-is? outside and develops an ?I? identity, an individual personality that shows up in reflex thought processes.
Ego is both a product of and an active player in the process of perception. We also carry a legacy of our past ego into the present life. There is no simple option of having or not having ego. It is a survivor tool in the ordinary human jungle. It creates ‘personal reality’ and there is nothing good or bad about it.
It becomes an obstacle, only when one seeks the universal reality. Even then, the process is to understand the anotomy and dynamics of ego and slowly undo the knots. After all its our own creation.
I want to thank everyone for responding to this thread. I am going to let it all sink in for now. However, I do appreciate everyone who took the time out to respond. I am very grateful.
[QUOTE=a.mi;64182]Hi,If one were to reach the end goal of yoga (self-realization), would there be no ego? Or would one’s ego no longer be threatened?[/QUOTE]
Ego has his own functions and should be in a balance state.
There are different levels of Self-realization.