Fantasy-dominated art/spirituality isnt bad nor good, its a necessity for change

Spirituality
#42

Thank you Seeking. The yogic concepts of kundalini and Shakti are tantric reworkings of classical yogic concepts prakriti, moolaprakriti and akasha. Kundalini shakti means “coiled energy” or potential energy, which is said to be infinite. It is regarded as the primal energy of nature, the grande source from which all other kinds of energy manifest, such as electrical energy, heat energy, nuclear energy etc. In the human body the Kundalini is said to rise from the base of the spine when the practitioner achieves a critical stage of yogic development. Gopi Krishna, regarded as one of the modern experts on Kundalini, regards Kundalini to be a natural evolutionary mechanism which rises naturally as we evolve. Yoga is an artificial process whereby we speed up our evolution through physical and mental practices, hence causing kundalini to rise sooner.

So how does the Yogic concept of Kundalini tally with the modern theory of the quantum field? The modern theory of the quantum field says that at the fundamental level of matter there exists an invisible and all pervading quantum field which contains possibly infinite potential energy. It is the source of all kinds of energy. It was believed by scientists like Nicola Tesla, who invented the Tesla coil that electricity is simply one kind of energy coming from the main field. He even used the yogic term “Akasha” to refer to it. Interestingly, even in Yoga the Sanskrit term for field, “Kshetra” is used to describe the field of matter. In the Gita Krishna says "Know the field and the knower of the field"
This energy can be tapped through various means, the Tesla coil for example can tap a much higher voltage and higher frequency of electricity from the field simply through a different configuration of electrical coil. It is also believed that some unexplained phenomena like sonoluminescence where sound energy converts into light energy, and anomalous phenomena like ball of lightening seen in nature may be explained through the existence of the quantum field. In fact the existence of the quantum field is now taken more seriously in science, some would even say it is a proven fact now. The existence of such a field which was strongly believed to exist by Max Plank(he called it the divine matrix), was rejected by Einstein’s GR and that dogma prevailed in modern science. However, in the past few decades the field theory has returned and supported by much stronger empirical evidence, most notably the casimir effect. There have been more controversial applications of quantum field theory in the fields of biology, such as Rupert Sheldrakes’s morphogenetic field. A leading philosopher of science and scientist Erwin Lazslo has recognized it as the “Akashic field” In fact quite a few modern scientists have recognized this field to be the same as the Yogic field theory, the first being as already mentioned Tesla.

Some of the common features between the Yogic field theory and quantum field theory

*Unmanifest
*Invisible
*All pervading and universal/non local
*Primordial source of all matter

  • Potential source of energy to be tapped

Slowly, but surely modern science is unwittingly moving to a much more Yogic worldview. So it is not surprising that leading scientists and philosophers are making parallels to the Yogic Eastern philosophies.

#43

I love reading your posts, especially when the sciences become involved. You have a way of making the complex enjoyable to attempt to understand. If you have any interest in teaching science you would make a great teacher.

#44

“Slowly, but surely modern science is unwittingly moving to a much more Yogic worldview. So it is not surprising that leading scientists and philosophers are making parallels to the Yogic Eastern philosophies.”

Making parallels for sure, but not in any form of surrender. Science’s bottom-up approach and yogic holistic top-down has to meet somewhere. But a pre-requisite to it is experimenting and trying cross-border pollination of ideas. New paradigms will be born only thus.

Now when one percieves an object, sensory data is collected through the sense organs. This data has to travel in, has to be in waveform and has to be carried by subtle medium. Since perception is preceded by attention (caused by desire) mind energy must be directing waves towards the perceived object, space must be carrying the waves back & forth.

Just like in a radar, a signal is transmitted, it bounces off an object and it is later received by some type of receiver. Radars use certain kinds of electromagnetic waves called radio waves and microwaves. Something similar must be happening in the process of perception.

Now, this is not dazzling sciene, but seems to be explaining the phenomenon in certin manner. The same is the situation with Potential energy in a statioary object. Science seems to have also discovered that when two stationary objects are brought within certain distance they react behaviorally with the respective potemtial energies causing them to come closer or disperse. I see a parallel in the perception process, that causes cognition of the perceived object’s form. The form is creation of guna, and must be resulting as the behavior caused by the potential energy.

Lack of grooming in the scientific world may prevent me from using the ‘correct’ language, but the ideas appear to me to make sense. I would appeal again Surya Deva to provide acceptable or novel language to what the process seems to be. That would be interesting and useful contribution.

#45

But it appears everyone is very nearly on the same page and a common language describing the thing that is trying to be shared needs to be used otherwise confusion occurs and information is not received from those being generous hearted enough to share.

The biggest problem with the Indian way of revealing the truth of how things operate is that the one doing the perceiving has to be the tool of perception as well.

Unfortunately others can not know what is known unless they also work on themselves to be capable of the same perceptions.

Then and only then once perceived can one say yes this is so, that is true, unfortunately no one believes that person either unless they do as that person has and become capable of perceiving by becoming the instrument of perception.

Then Nationalism and belief come into the picture and the Indian way becomes subject to scorn and derision.

The Indian way is the superior way to understand in a thoroughly experiential manner.

Sadly the India way or Yogic way has failed to be translated to practical phenomenal world purpose which is why while spiritually rich India when compared to other nations became materially poor for the longest of times and was occupied by foreign invaders with superior firepower. In the end the Wisdom of Ghandi and too large of a population to control who refused to be controlled pushed the British out like the splinter they were.

Western Science uses external tools and ways of measuring and reproducing things so that anyone can verify the truth repeat it and say ah yes heating a pot to this temperature at this elevation above sea level does indeed make water boil.

Here write this down on the side of a box and sell your product. The purchasing person never understands the theory of thermodynamics does not need to they just follow the instructions boil water and make there pasta.

In this manner most will never understand in a thoroughly experiential way but a consensus of agreement without doubt can be achieved.

So as Western science does as described above and India is always in the position of saying I told ya so a long time ago but no one can ever prove that was what they were actually saying or not.

The materialistic west will never be able to condition itself to Indian ways of yoga by and large all the West is concerned with is what they think is Hatha Yoga more like studio yoga or pay attention to me see how good I look, let me act odd and tell you how wonderful going to watchamacallits studio is, blah, blah, blah organic this, blah,blah skin tight outfit, etc…

I predict the West will one day make it possible to perceive the very thing advanced Yogis can but it will be done via very sophisticated machines that to us now would appear to be magic. Still cheating it this way will never really produce the same result as the goals are always going to be separate.

Sadly it seems that the ones capable of perceiving yogic truths are not interested in engaging in Western style Science and thereby creating a better grade of steel as an example because the very becoming of the tool of perception and the one perceiving appears to remove the interest in the phenomenal world to such an extent due to the identification with finer and finer realities. This I understand.

#46

Now when one percieves an object, sensory data is collected through the sense organs. This data has to travel in, has to be in waveform and has to be carried by subtle medium. Since perception is preceded by attention (caused by desire) mind energy must be directing waves towards the perceived object, space must be carrying the waves back & forth.

Just like in a radar, a signal is transmitted, it bounces off an object and it is later received by some type of receiver. Radars use certain kinds of electromagnetic waves called radio waves and microwaves. Something similar must be happening in the process of perception.

This makes a lot more sense to me. I agree that this is how perception happens. It has long been believed by yogis and other Indian philosophers that perception is an interactive process and not a receptive process. Ironically, I was reading an article on the Indian history of science, and the author writes “They wrongly believed that rays went out of the mind/eyes to the object, rather than light entering the eyes’s retina” Actually, the author is wrong, in Ayurveda it explains explicitly that one sees because light rays enter the retina in the eyes and are transmitted via the optic nerve(Sushrutha Samhita, with Chakrapani’s commentary) What they meant was that perception is an interactive process which involves an interaction between the mind and the object being apprehended. This process is subtle and involved subtle particles called tanmatras that radiate from the mind to the object.

We can now actually prove that something does indeed emit out of the mind empirically, for studies such in telepathy have shown that when one thinks about somebody(preceded by a desire) it causes neural activity in the brain of the person you are thinking of. Therefore, something must indeed be travelling from the mind of the sender and the receiver for this phenomena to become explicable.

Now, this is not dazzling sciene, but seems to be explaining the phenomenon in certin manner. The same is the situation with Potential energy in a statioary object. Science seems to have also discovered that when two stationary objects are brought within certain distance they react behaviorally with the respective potemtial energies causing them to come closer or disperse. I see a parallel in the perception process, that causes cognition of the perceived object’s form. The form is creation of guna, and must be resulting as the behavior caused by the potential energy.

I am not sure which experiments you are talking about. However, it does remind of an information theory in quantum mechanics. According to this theory any kind of new information added to a system alters the outcome of the system. So in a given fixed system if we introduce something else, such as a human observer present in an experiment, the outcome has changed by the mere presence of the observer. Likewise, when two objects are close to one another, the systems outcome has been changed. This could explain for example why somebody walking into a room can be detected, despite the fact that you have not directly seen them enter.

Quantum phenomena is not perceptible to our 5 senses, but to the 6th sense of our mind quantum phenomena can become perceptible. In the example where somebody walks into a room or even somebody gazing at you behind your back, while the 5 senses cannot detect this phenomena, the 6th sense of the mind has detected it and we may even unconsciously feel it. This is why people unconsciously know they are being stared at.

#47

Sadly it seems that the ones capable of perceiving yogic truths are not interested in engaging in Western style Science and thereby creating a better grade of steel as an example because the very becoming of the tool of perception and the one perceiving appears to remove the interest in the phenomenal world to such an extent due to the identification with finer and finer realities. This I understand.

Ironically, India was the first producer and exporter of steel, producing the highest grade of steel the world has ever known. There has been a lot of scientific curiosity into India’s ancient wootz steel for its legendary strength, it was only recently discovered by German scientists by analyzing samples of it under an electron microscope that it was reinforced with carbon nanotubes. India has been producing and exporting steel since 200BCE. The secrets of steel manufacture were not known in the West, until in the modern age when Western metallurgists studied India’s wootz steel and reverse engineered it.

The point I am making that the popular romantic dichotomy we have all heard that India was a spiritual, mystical haven as opposed to the West a mega giant of rationality, science and technology is not true. India was leading the world in science and technology until the modern age. It was ahead in virtually every field: mathematics, medicine, chemistry, production technology, agriculture, navigation. So much of what we consider to be modern is directly derived from India: cotton gin, modern surgery and surgical instruments, modern taxonomies, zinc refinement, calculus, psychology. India fell behind in science and the West raced ahead, because Indian scientific growth was brought to a near standstill by the Muslim invasions and then the European colonial invasions headed by the British. Otherwise, India was well on track to developing the modern scientific experimental method and modern mathematical methods.

The real difference between the West and India is the system of ethics. India is a Dharmic civilization and the West is an Abrahamic civilization. In science and technology there is no major difference, both the West and India are scientific civilizations. Even today Indians are showing their natural talents in science and technology. The other difference is in the type of science and technology: India cultivated the soft and inner-sciences such as psychology, consciousness studies, epistemology and linguistics, whereas the West cultivated the outer-sciences like mechanics, physics and engineering. This is why India developed the technology of Sanskrit and Yoga and the West developed the technology of steam engines and motors.

#48

Another point, the West and India are practically two peas of the same pod. They are both Indo-European civilizations, which over time became rivals. Almost like two brothers that drifted apart. They share a lot of the same philosophy, myths, beliefs, traditions and languages.

The further back we go in history, the more the West and India resemble each other. In pre-Christian Europe we find the Celtic cultures, pagan religions have very strong resemblance to the Vedic culture of India. One of the foremost scholars Peter Ellis in Celtic studies notes these strong similarities and affirms the Vedic links.

They drifted apart when the Semitic influences invaded into Europe. The Semitic influences originating from the Sumerians, corrupted the original kinship between the Indians and the Europeans(West) Otherwise you will find how much the Greeks loved Indian philosophy and regularly visited India. It is strongly believed that Pythagoras traveled to India, where he learned his famous theorem and philosophy. The Greeks loved India so much that they had the Bhagvad Gita translated into Greek. There were also Indo-Greek kingdoms. However, you start to see enmity develop between Indian civilization and Western civilization after Christianity takes over. Christianity vehemently hated the pagan culture of Europe, whose root was India, that they made made every effort to eradicate it and demonize it. They also tried to suppress the Indian connection in European history. This is why it was so surprising to the Europeans when they colonized India that they shared history and India was the motherland of the Indo-European people. Christian missionaries again suppressed it and are still suppressing this truth.

#49

for filling in the gaps actually canyon like in many ways concerning history. I always knew India was ultra advanced at one time but did not know what had happened.

#50

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;82331] in Ayurveda it explains explicitly that one sees because light rays enter the retina in the eyes and are transmitted via the optic nerve(Sushrutha Samhita, with Chakrapani’s commentary) What they meant was that perception is an interactive process which involves an interaction between the mind and the object being apprehended. This process is subtle and involved subtle particles called tanmatras that radiate from the mind to the object.

We can now actually prove that something does indeed emit out of the mind empirically, for studies such in telepathy have shown that when one thinks about somebody(preceded by a desire) it causes neural activity in the brain of the person you are thinking of. Therefore, something must indeed be travelling from the mind of the sender and the receiver for this phenomena to become explicable.

Quantum phenomena is not perceptible to our 5 senses, but to the 6th sense of our mind quantum phenomena can become perceptible. In the example where somebody walks into a room or even somebody gazing at you behind your back, while the 5 senses cannot detect this phenomena, the 6th sense of the mind has detected it and we may even unconsciously feel it. This is why people unconsciously know they are being stared at.[/QUOTE]

Quantum entanglement or Holography perhaps both? seem to be good explanations.

It seems Quantum entanglement covers the aspect of neural activity in the brain of the person one is thinking of. The theory of quantum Holography seems to be the perfect explanation for the transmission medium.

Your thoughts S.D.?

#51

Yes quantum entanglement is a good theory to explain the transmission of information between a person we are thinking of and neural activity taking place in their brain, but something still has to be transmitted between them for the information transfer to take place. This transmission must take place in time, because the information comes to at us a point in time. First the event of the thinking has to take place, before the neural activity takes place. This means there must be a speed to the transmission of the information.

It has been believed by quantum physicists that the information does not travel, but recent experiments in QE have been to give estimates for the speed of transmission of information at 10,000 times the speed of light. This is consistent with Yoga, the tanmatras are particles that precede perception, and thus must necessarily travel faster than the speed of light.

#52

I think the whole idea is to loose fantasy right? otherwise you just make it more complecated and reality becomes more experienced through these fantasy " filters"
Loose the idea what reality is and learn to directly experience it I would say. Peace
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