Fated to be alone forever?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#21

I will add: Spirituality is those who are committed to realizing their highest Self. Before one can begin spirituality one must be fully convinced of the highest Self, the immortal and infinite power that they really are. They must have a strong belief in themselves, in their own potential for greatness and disbelief in any kind of limitation. Without having this ideal first it is futile beginning on a spiritual path, because one will wander aimlessly. Having the ideal firmly set in ones mind like the summit of the mountain for a climber, one begins their trek and keeps moving with one-pointed focus to get there.

Now, it is safe to say that Bolno’s ideal is not the great divine Self, his ideal is an ordinary ideal: he wants a girlfriend, he wants friends, he wants fun. I am not judging him for having those wants, because after all we have those wants, practically the vast majority of people on Earth have those wants. This is why he must work out his wordly desires first, before he can even begin spirituality. There is no point starting on a spiritual path when ones goal in life is wordly. There are wordly paths for wordly things.

#22

Well my spiritual path we influenced by women a lot, at first it was a self improvement thing to get women, then as i learned and grew, i started realizing that happines is not ‘out there’ it comes from reconnecting with my true essence, it was a maturing process turning inward slowly after seeing how each element i search for ‘out there’ was nothing compared to what was ‘in here’.

#23

But you never know he can in an eyeblink just believe. Did you believe just because you read the scriptures? You must have experienced something so that you believe in it and then you choose the path you want to follow.

There are different levels to walk first you will get angry on the people that are teaching yoga wrong that you know is wrong and the scriptures will back you up. Then you will realize the problem lies in your head and then you will drop that angriness which is yours only and not others.

The best thing is just to let people be fools and dont even let it make a ripple in your mind.

Even though you might be right by saying what you said did you help him? its a matter of how you say it. Sometimes you cant be frank with people if you know what i mean. But sometimes not.

Also i said how he might take it i didnt say you say he is worthless im sorry if im unclear. The guy is depressed his rational thinking might be obcured so he could easily understand you wrong.

That might be worst case scenario. Its like you get upset because he asks about worldly thing in the forum you could easily have skipped the thing that he is unfit for yoga or spirituality, if you look back how can it help him. You clearly tell him yoga is not for him then you plant a seed in him. If he is not fit for yoga now , when will he be?

Would you tell a child of 7th months that the child is not fit for start to walk? some walks sooner some later , this is the same in worldy life some are quicker some slower.

And i guess you have the authority to see who is fit or not? The most unfit becomes the biggest saints. Mila repa started by killing many people then he realized he did wrong. We could if we lived then have said look at him he is evil and not fit for spirituality.

98 or 99% of the yogis in india are not fit for yoga, they are scams number 1 would you tell them that also? Everyone knows how indian yogis are. Even indians say they only want your money. Have you seen the movie angulimala? see it. pram have always thought they are number 1 and look today pride make them fall.

So then tell me who is fit for yoga and spiritual life? ITs like walking a razor. And if we start talking about who is fit or not its our mind speaking. Funniest thing is that people have a preconcept how an enlightened man should be and behave but they have never seen one nor have they transcended their minds , how can the mind understand?. quite a paradox.

And youre right he can start spirituality when he is older but if he starts now he will have something that will pull him towards spirituality easier. Actually the longer you wait the harder. So even if you party its better to do little spirituality than neglect it and think you will do it later as people saying i take it later , will be lazy as this take it later will infect your mind.

Do everything now so you can rest tomorrow is a better way of thinking and it will change the personality for the better.

Yoga has the power of transformation. So we should not tell someone they are not fit for it.

#24

as arjuna says sometimes we need to learn and it is all about experience.
so that we realize it does not give us real eternal hapiness.

In some way if we look back we could say it is a part of our sadhana.

#25

I am not here to preach to the boy. He asked:

how can i make myself not like girls? i want to be asexual, and just not even like girls

It is girls that is playing on his mind right now, not Atman. I answered that part. Yes, he can start spirituality now, but what is the point when at the moment the most important thing for him is girls?? I am giving him advice from my own experience, as I am somebody who has been seeking spirituality for a long time and have even traveled to India and spent 6 months there, only to come to the realization that my wordly desires were too strong. I needed to first work out my wordly desires, before a genuine yearning for the spiritual awakened in me. I understand what it is like to be consumed by desire. It is no good trying to walk on a spiritual path, when your desire is taking you the other way. Don’t do something half-hearted: either work on your desires or work on your spirituality. Don’t try to go left and right at the same time.

There is a reason why the Hindu life is divided into four quarters with the last quarter of your life being spirituality, because ones wordly life comes before spirituality. The wordly life is used to pursue other legitimate goals in life: wealth, education, pleasure, career and duty. The fact is though spirituality is the ultimate goal of life, is not the most important goal in life in the beginning. One must first experience the lower things in life like sex, fun and games, entertainment, progressing in your career. It is only when one develops dispassion to these things, and nothing else is left to experience, one turns to spirituality(inner life)

Unfortunately, spirituality has become a recourse of the failures in life. I have even heard it being said explicitly by such people, “Well, I failed in life, so I am going to just go and join a monastery and focus on god/charity/spiritual growth” These failures then rock up at these monasteries and bring their failure habits with them, and perpetuate their failing in spirituality too. I mean come on, if somebody cannot handle getting a girlfriend in life, how are they going to handle the spiritual life? Spirituality is not for losers of life, it is winners of life. When you have mastered life, you are ready for spirituality. You will be sincere and pure in your intention.

I have stayed in and visited several ashrams in India, and all I found at these places were ordinary people pretending to be spiritual. It was very easy to see the ordinary them jump out: watch the monks at the Sivananda ashram set of firecrackers irresponsibly at Diwali like little boys on the street; watch the head monks watching television in their quarters and their eyes light up when a scantily dressed women flashes on the screen; watch the Ganesha and Durga parades, reckelessly dancing on the street under the influence of weed and other drugs, giving any partygoer in a club a run for their money; watched the swamis at ashrams cat-fight with each other over who is going to become the next guru.

Spirituality has become a joke in the world today and this is bound to happen because the doors have been opened to the masses. The masses always spoil everything. There is a reason why spirituality was esoteric in the past and only a very select chosen few were allowed access to it. You had to be sincere and ready. It was not just some hobby or some lifestyle practice one added to their life. It was not so you could get a slim body or get a girlfriend. It was for people who genuinely wanted to commune with the divine. And it still is.

#26

Surya Deva,

My experience and self-learning begs to differ from yours. One is born spiritual and struggles with own sense of denial induced by the lures of material life. Any discrimination leading to dividing mankind into the ‘chosen’ and ‘masses’ is as a-spiritual as its more popular siblings like, castes, tongues, color, nationalities, cultures, or even holiness. Such defective discrimination breeds biases and unkind observations like ?masses spoil everything.?

I know many enlightened people in India who are uncommonly common. To know them, one has to be on the spiritual path and beyond the compulsive discriminating mindset. These common people can easily slide in the masses and yet do such enormous good to the humanity asking nothing for themselves. In spiritual mass events one meets poor, illiterate, unmannerly common folks who have pure contentment writ large on their wrinkled faces and limitless compassion in their eyes. They ARE spiritual, unmindful of what they may be called by those whose spirituality depends on labels that are lip-stuck and skin-deep.

Spirituality may be contained in an individual, but never limited to or by one. It can never be a joke. At various turns it is only paradoxical. It?s a marathon race full of hurdles, and alternate rock climbing and skydiving episodes. Spiritual vision expands as we go. That?s why we make mistakes, shortchange the great ideas; but as long as we stay connected to the cause, whether in hate or love, we find the way.

#27

I think when we have such an open and liberal definition of what spiritual is, it ceases being helpful anymore. If everybody is spiritual, then nobody is spiritual. This is why the word spiritual is so fuzzy, but I only use it because that is the closest term in English to describe such a pursuit in life. Just as I have to use the term "Hindu’ to describe my religious-philosophical viewpoints in life, when I actually mean Santana dharma, which is not really a religion in the conventional way.

In Vedanta they use other definitions which are more clear and helpful: mumukshu and jijanasu. Mumukshu is somebody who is in search of the spiritual, in that the spiritual has been awakened in them and now nothing else is satisfying them anymore, but they themselves do not know what is lacking. They just have a burning desire for the spiritual. So they aimlessly wander from place to place finding that which will appease their thirst.
Jijanasu is a mumukshu who has a burning desire for the spiritual and has successfully diagnosed why they have that burning desire and the means to ending it, the knowledge that leads to end of it.

Now us spiritual seekers have to be very honest with ourselves. I know I have. If that burning desire for the divine is not there within us. If one has not yet developed dispassion for the world - then forget it, one is not even a mumukshu, let alone a jijnasu.
That dispassion first has to come, and I had thought that I reached that stage because nothing really appealed to me in the world, but then I realized especially in India, that to be honest I had not really reached dispassion, but I had failed in my wordly life. I was running away from the world and rationalizing it being dipassionate. No, because if it was dispassion I would not be craving in my heart friends, recognition, finding the right career and sex and enjoyment. I found myself slipping into that when I went to India, realising my spiritual yearning was weaker than my yearning for the wordly. I was consumed by the wordly and this is why I decided I would deal with the wordly.

I have diagnosed in Bolno the same condition as me(despite him being much younger than me) He is not ready for spirituality. He is looking for girls, friends, fun, enjoyment and finding his place in the world. He is certainly not dispassionate about them, otherwise he would not be asking us how to stop liking girls. There is nothing wrong with this desire of his, it is a legitimate desire(kama) and his soul needs to experience it. If he tries to deprive himself of the experience of sex in his life, then those latent tendencies will carry over with his soul into his next life. He needs to experience what sex is life, and develop dispassion for it. When he is done with the worldy, he is ready for the spiritual.

There is really no rush. We have been evolving for millions of years, and have through out many lifetimes experienced a lot. Now that we are at the human stage, we are having human experiences, playing different roles in lifetimes to get the full breadth of human experience. When we have had enough human experiences, the next stage will automatically follow. That yearning must be there though for this to happen. This yearning will come in two ways

  1. Left hand path: Work on your desires. Make your life’s purpose to work on your desires. If that means allowing yourself to indulge in every vice you have denied yourself so far, then so be it(as long as it lawful) Do not make a half hearted effort - plunge yourself in this decadence - totally shock your sensory system. You may even die trying. If done correctly, dispassion will come.

  2. Right hand path: Force yourself, kicking and screaming to the ascetic life of the spiritual. Deny yourself all sensory pleasures. Immerse yourself in the spiritual. Constantly read scriptures and contemplate on it. Purify your mind and body through the practice of Yoga. Dispassion will develop gradually over a long time. This is a long, painful and arduous path. It may take lifetimes on this path before the right purification has been received. The chances are many of us current spiritual seekers were on this path in past lifetimes, but have fallen. A spiritual friend of mine insists that is my case lol

I do not believe in half-hearted efforts, because they are a cop out. I meet people like this a dime a dozen in the spiritual community. They practice Yoga and meditation on the weekend, and in the week days they indulge in worldy life like any other ordinary person. They are not more cultivated than an ordinary person, despite doing their Yoga and meditation practice. Be serious and sincere in your practice. Be clear of your goals in life and work at them. Stop faffing about, trying to go left and right at the same time.

#28

From the Gita:
Even a little of this practice will shelter you from great sorrow.
On this path no effort is ever wasted, no gain is ever reversed.

Every bit counts he is planting seeds…

#29

Right, Left, what about the middle path?

#30

There is no middle path :smiley: It is a cop out for people who are half-hearted about their spirituality. Some consider Buddhism to be a middle path, but actually Buddhism is an ascetic path just like Yoga.

#31

Bolno,

Returning to the theme of this thread, you may learn a lot just by going through the posts. When our opinions become self-hypnotizing most of us forget to detach from them to see the truth. The opinions become the truth.

It is really important in life, to gauge how much of the other people’s behavior is perceived (through one’s colored glasses) and real. Otherwise what happens with girls today can repeat with friends,family, other people and objects to bring even greater pain.

One fine morning, get up and be the sunshine and with slate clean and mind fresh approach the girl not for her looks but for the inner vibations you feel. See for yourself. Walking the talk is tough, but brings results.

#32

To Surya Deva
thank you oh Holy One!!! :wink: now i see the light! How much will you charge me for a 3 week retreat! LOL

#33

I don’t offer retreats :wink:

#34

I somewhat suspect bolno is a troll. Last time I checked he was going to commit suicide. Now he’s posting another thread asking for the same kind of advice as usual. In any case this does not mean people who have advised him have wasted their time, there are genuine people in the same boat as bolno claims to be, who will stand to benefit from it.

#35

Suffering.

#36

Dealing with sexual frustration and the sense of loneliness, is torturing
but there is hope, i dealt with a pornography addiction, but thru wrestling with it
i have learned so much above all compassion for my self and others, but also, it led me on a path to discovering sooo much about my energy system, how my mind works, relationships with myself and others, diet etc…
Its that dark pit of lonliness that you must confront, listen to, decipher, along the way I keep discovering little gifts and i am starting the sense the bigger gift at the end…

Compassion for my brothers, sisters and comrades on all paths of life, my hear t goes out to you, we are in this together!!
Sarvakalavidam Brahamam Aham Brahman, EVerything is Brahman, I am Brahman

#37

you say :if somebody cannot handle getting a girlfriend in life, how are they going to handle the spiritual life?

IF you cant handle a girl it is not same as manage a spiritual life. 2 different things.

some are good in football some are good parents some other are good at being casanova. There shouldnt even be a comparison, also there are monks that never had intercourse and choose to become monks at a young age. So then they cant be fit.

You seem to see all in black or white. Also just because it is in some scripture it is not 100%true. You know how many paths there are in spirutuality in india and most of them are deluded. There is not much truth left and scriptures can be interpretated in different manners.

It is not the masses fault about yoga. But who made it accessible to the west? the greedy yogis. It is easy to blaim the masses. Well many people are bragging about their guru-i have a guru etc but those so called gurus are a joke most times. They dont even have good answers but people follow them.

Unpure people will look for unpure teachers . Law of attraction. they feel they are with same kind of people so they feel safe. So if someone is pure those unpure will most certain run away as they dont feel comfortable close to them as they do not vibrate in the same frequency. Or they will feel unpure close to them.

All practice with the mind is good even though you run for worldy life. You can not say someone is not fit for meditation beause he cant follow strict rules. What ever good deeds you do you take with you to afterlife. If we tell people they can forget about spirituality the world will become lost. The world is now very unstable and run by greed. IF some people try to do little good there could be a chainreaction. we have to start somehwere like dominobricks.

Budhda is said to have eons of life before he was a bodhi, do you think he was 100% in all lifes? what little we do we take to next life so by saying to someone he is not fit it is not a good deed.

So if there is no middle rule as you say, and we look at the yogis of india that not even them can follow that rule it is better if you tell all people that they should not try to follow any spiritual form at all cost cause they will not manage. Then you will see what happens. If you follow spirituality you should tell people whatever little they do is good and encourae them to become better instead. And you will notice a big change. Try it it is free.

Sometimes it is not like we think it is.

#38

IF you cant handle a girl it is not same as manage a spiritual life. 2 different things.

Indeed, and getting a date and girl is a lot easier. Most people can do it. Spirituality, however, taming the storm that is the mind is definitely not easy. It is only for the most brave and strongest of people. Like I said it is for winners not losers.

I am not going to budge on my stance because I take spirituality seriously, serious enough for me to go to India for 6 months on a spiritual journey. I do things seriously and sincerely, not half heartedly. That is how one wins in the game of life: set your goals and work on your goals.

You can content yourself as much as you want with the “every little counts” and “it will all pass over into my next life” but the reality is we don’t have a lot of time on Earth to waste and the future is unpredictable, anything could happen, including death. What is going to happen in our next life is not predictable, you may not even get the opportunity to be spiritual in your next life and it certainly will not be the same you in that life. In the Indian spiritual tradition, coming back even once is seen like a punishment rather than an opportunity. It is this life, and this life alone one must attain liberation.

If spirituality is not the most important thing in your life, then stop pretending to be spiritual. If girls are important, be honest and acknowledge it. If money is important, be honest and acknowledge it. I am not going to judge you harshly for that - but stop trying to have your cake and eat it as well - doing a little bit of meditation here and there, attending a retreat here and there, a little bit of charity here and there is not going to bring you to liberation. The reason why I encounter a dime a dozen so-called spiritual people who have been practicing for years and even decades who have nothing extraordinary about them is because they are not taking spirituality seriously, they are hypocrites trying to be spiritual and wordly at the same time.

I say spirituality has become a joke today because the masses now masquerade around as spiritual, but are in fact ordinary people and do ordinary things, and spoil the image for all spiritual people in general. There was a time when spiritual people like sages, gurus and rishis commanded respect in society. Today, because the spiritual world is now full of charlatans, fakes and pretenders, sages, gurus and rishis have lost respect in society.

#39

To add:

To dissuade somebody from spirituality and encourage them to focus on their current goals is not not helping, but helps a lot. It allows people to be clear exactly in their mind on they want and when they are clear what they want, they can move towards getting it. If what somebody wants is sex, then be clear that is what you want, then put in the effort to get it.

This actually plays into spirituality. What is holding us back from the divine is our egoic wants and desires. As long as they are there, the the feeling for the divine cannot arise within us. This is why in the spiritual traditions desire is seen as something which holds us back, limits us, and creates suffering for us(first noble truth of Buddha) hence the ideal state is said to be a state of desirelessness.

And believe you me, I have found the force of desire the hardest thing to deal with in my own spiritual path. It has prevented me from developing further in life. This is why I decided that I needed to work on my desires. Like I said there are two major ways of doing it:

Right hand path: Literally forcing yourself to go in the opposite direction of your desires. It means following a very rigid code of life. The kind of life you would have to lead if you went to a monastery(5 am wake up, fixed times for meditation/prayer, basic, tasteless food, 9pm sleep) No gossip, maintaining silence at most times, no television, no sports, celibacy. This highly regimented life is designed to force your mind into new habits and by doing so the desires within one gradually begin to weaken.

Left hand path: Working directly with your desire and experiencing its result. The aim is to transcend the desire by developing dispassion for it. For example, suppose you have an addiction to chocolate. Then eat chocolate and see how it makes you feel. Then eat another and see how that feels. Then another… and another… and another. Eventually dispassion will come and you will not want to eat another chocolate.

In my experience I have found the left hand path is the most practical way of overcoming desire and it works very well. Deal with your desires one by one, that eventually none are left. I feel like I have come a longer way in my spiritual development by following this path, than I ever did with the right hand path.

If it is the desire of girls that is holding you back. Then get a girl, experience what it is like, and trust me when the novelty wears out you will be thinking to yourself, “Why did I want this so much before” When the realization comes that getting a girl has not really brought you fulfillment, you will develop dispassion for girls. Then your mind will shift to the next desire… and the next… and the next until no more are left to experience.

The left hand path actually mirrors how nature works according to Samkhya. Nature is constantly moving us forward towards our final liberation by producing the experiences that we need or desire. When the soul has experienced it, understood it and developed dispassion, nature stops producing those experiences. This process has been automatic up until the human stage, where the human then takes conscious control of their evolution. Thus it is up to us to carry out own evolution by consciously carrying out the process nature does(really we are just nature personified).

#40

Hello

When i say little is better than nothing i talk about common man. Im not telling you about my life im not here defending my ego either.

And it is true little is better than nothing, im sorry if you cant see it that way but maybe you will at a later point. You talk now from your point of view -you have come further than most of humans. But what did you do for some lifetimes ago? Where you then this serious? I doubt that and you cant be serious if you didnt get tired of this life. All has to reach there sometime. Maybe some lifes ago your were worse than him.

We have all been where he is now. At some time ago.

My message was give people water so that they grow instead.

And you talk about winners and losers, why are you splitting people into groups we are all the same, just that some are ruled by their minds but their mind is not their real self. A better word is ignorant. Cause how can you judge people for something that is not them. When you say that also it means you qualify your self as winner. Would this be appropriate for a spiritual man? Indirectly you say that all that are mixed up in worldly matters are losers. A loser today can exceed you tomorrow. And in previous life maybe you were a loser. If you became enlightened tomorrow would you then say im a winner yeah and rest is loser?

But it is true that noone is fit for spiritual life if mixed up in the world but that doesnt mean he should not meditate, maybe he works in this life mixed up in the world but he start meditate every day and then next life he come to the point where you are now.
But noone can start from first life to become as seriuos as you, not even you did.You must have incarnated many times. Your actions puts you into place in next life, so what little you do does matter. IF you are only capable of doing little you will be rewarded in this and next life. Otherwise it doesnt matter if i do evil stuff halfheartedly nothing bad will happen to me if we use the opposite of what you said.