Flat back

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I’ve been recommended the following teaching for improved practice. It’s called flat back, where you straighten your spine ligaments over time to achieve an uncurved posture. You can read about it here:

(I’m apparently not allowed to post URLs, but if you go to Google and type in “flat back esoterics” it should be the fourth result in the list with the title “Flat Back - Why is it important?”)

It should supposedly take between 2-4 months of daily exercises (about 30-40 minutes each time) to attain the straight spine posture.

My questions are; have you tried this, and how did it affect you? I’ve had a slight problem with scoliosis in my youth so I’m a bit hesitant of doing something to my spine. On the other hand, simply flexing the ligaments shouldn’t be a cause for concern. What’s your opinion? Thanks.

#2

My boyfriend has the opposite issue, his back is flat and he has very little bend, movement, or flexibility in it. Any advice I can pass his way?

Sorry to piggybacking off your thread :stuck_out_tongue:

#3

[QUOTE=Sebastian;35658]

My questions are; have you tried this, and how did it affect you? I’ve had a slight problem with scoliosis in my youth so I’m a bit hesitant of doing something to my spine. On the other hand, simply flexing the ligaments shouldn’t be a cause for concern. What’s your opinion? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

First of all when I put google “flat back esoterics” it did not find anything.

Can you please give more detail in the type of movements you want to attempt?

#4

[QUOTE=CityMonk;35687]First of all when I put google “flat back esoterics” it did not find anything.

Can you please give more detail in the type of movements you want to attempt?[/QUOTE]

You sure about that? I get 68,200 results. I’m sorry, I forgot to say not to use quotation marks. Just write

flat back esoterics

Edit: Let me just copy paste the whole thing for convenience.

If you want to achieve good results in meditation, you have to keep your spine straight. This allows main energy centers to be on one line and central body channel to work properly (Fig. 1). This position is known as “flat back”.

Fig.1

To achieve this, you can use one very simple exercise.

  1. Choose any vertical corner of the wall or furniture (wardrobe, bookcase, etc).

  2. Lean your sacrum against the corner.

  3. Straighten your knees.

  4. Lean your heels against the corner, too, or put them straight under it (if the corner of furniture does not touch floor).

  5. Your calves should touch each other.

  6. Lean the back of your head against the corner.

  7. Try to lean every vertebra of your spine against the corner keeping the position of your body. I.e., your knees should be straightened and your sacrum and the back of your head should touch the corner.

  8. Most of all, you will find that you are unable to do previous step. Here the practice starts.

  9. Tilt your trunk forward, keeping legs straight and touching the corner by your sacrum.
  10. Try to lean the vertebra, next to the sacrum, to the corner. You have to feel equally firm contact with the corner both by your sacrum and by vertebra.
  11. Relax your body in this position. Feel the flow of energy along your spine and in the muscles around it.
  12. Lean the next vertebra against the corner. Lower vertebrae and sacrum should not lose the contact with the corner!
  13. Relax your body in this position. Feel the flow of energy along your spine and in the muscles around it.
  14. Repeat previous two steps until you reach the base of your neck (seventh neck vertebra).
  15. When you are able to stay relaxed in the final position for 30 minutes, the technique is finished.

Possible problems

Mostly people feel discomfort of different kind: irritation, sickness, problems with breathing, and some others. You should not ignore these senses of discomfort, but you should not allow them to stop your practice.

When you meet with discomfort, fix the body in the position where the discomfort arises, and relax the body. Do not try to move further, but do not move back. Just try maximally to relax the body and wait in this position until the discomfort disappears. Then you can move further.

Please keep in mind: your main instruments are relaxation and energy flow. If you work properly, you feel yourself better, your breath becomes smoother and longer, and your mind becomes calmer and clearer.

#5

Hello Sebastian,

To answer you directly, no I have not tried this and therefore I have not had effects from it.

With all due respect, this is not a program I would gravitate toward or follow. The spinal column is curved to support the weight of a human being in a bipedal position (Homo erectus). Manipulating the curvatures can take many years and should only be done for therapeutic reasons by a highly skilled yoga therapist.

Additionally, I’d question the depth of understanding when it asserts that subtle energy centers are tied to the physical structure of the spine.

gordon

#6

Gordon, could you explicate on why you think this would be detrimental? Also, I’ve been told this process wouldn’t take longer than 2-4 months. Why do you say it would take several years? Thank you.

If anyone else have a view on this, please don’t hesitate to share it.

#7

Why fight nature?

ah la la

#8

[QUOTE=The Scales;35750]Why fight nature?

ah la la[/QUOTE]

I have my reasons, but I’m open to the opinions of experienced practitioners.

#9

comfort.

Stability.

Ease.

Rooting.

many have become well accomplished with out trying to “fix” nature.

I.e. the natural curve of the spine.

So what are your reasons?

#10

Let’s not get into that. But your argument is not built on any specific expertise, it seems. I’m not knocking you for that, but if you do have some professional insight, feel free to share it.

#11

What are you trying to do?

Get the Fluttering Light? Achieve Buddhahood? Attain self realization. Get into union with God. Meditate on the prakriti? Cultivate love and kindness?

For any of that and all the more you don’t need such sillyness.

My specific expertise is I’m a Bad ass.

#12

I’m with Gordon on this.

#13

What I’m looking for is a clinical description of what would happen to the spine if one were to do this exercise over an extended period of time. “Common sense” really doesn’t mean anything since I’m already aware of that argument. If it’s obviously detrimental, it should be very easy to break it down in scientific terms why that is the case.

The Scales, your sarcasm is not helpful. Just leave this thread be if you don’t want to help, fair enough?

#14

I second InnterAthlete on this in the notion that spine is meant to maintain curvature to support our activities. In fact, if you want to maintain the spine erectly during the process of meditation, it is better to practice a variety of movement techniques that encourage the relaxation and strengthening of the ligaments surrounding the vertebral tissue and in the rest of the back and abdomen, so as to facilitate being able to hold yourself upright without resistance. This would be far more efficient and more beneficial than simply pressing yourself into a wall in order to try and train your spine to maintain a locked position on one plane. I also would not teach a process which includes so many side affects for ‘most people’. There are many other techniques that achieve this effect which when practiced correctly have no detrimental effects.

This particular practice has no bearing on scoliosis. Scoliosis is an asymmetrical curvature of the spinal column from right to left/left to right when viewing from the posterior side. What these practices are designed to do is straighten the spine on the perpendicular plane - from front to back. You risk creating over/under lordosis and kyphosis here, but ideally there would be no change in the scoliosis of the spine, if I have understood the instructions correctly (I may not have).

#15

Thank you very much for your in-deph answer, I really appreciate it. Are there any exercises you would recommend for maintaining a good posture? What are these movement techniques you speak of?

#16

[QUOTE=Sebastian;35805]Thank you very much for your in-deph answer, I really appreciate it. Are there any exercises you would recommend for maintaining a good posture? What are these movement techniques you speak of?[/QUOTE]

If you’re just beginning and are only using these techniques to facilitate sitting in meditation with ease, I would recommend dynamic (moving - not static/still) movements that mobilize the spine in subtle ways, to begin. There is a video that I like which brings some people through a general practice which can help to mobilize major joints and move the spine, and it links the breath with it in the correct way - which is very important in making the movements efficient. Example: if we inhale while we are bending forward, for instance, than we are increasing a volume in our chest area and preventing a full forward bend from occuring. The video is full of a bunch of other thoughts and information, but what he is saying in regards to the methodology of that physical and breathing is very useful in working out the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbQwfcwYnuY

Raising the arms above the head is a stretch for the whole spine, the lifting of the head works out the neck and upper back, and the forward bending stretches the lower back. There are so many other movements that can be utilized to create strength and softness in the back at the same time, but a full accounting of what would be best for you should be given by a teacher who is familiar with preparing people for meditative practices. Someone who can actually see you. Even forward bends can be detrimental to people who are not prepared for it physically, and this can cause spinal problems, and so it is helpful to have good teachers who can assist one with this. If not, there are a lot of books that I might be able to recommend? I’ll have to look through my book collection and think about it.

#17

[quote=Sebastian;35744]Gordon, could you explicate on why you think this would be detrimental? Also, I’ve been told this process wouldn’t take longer than 2-4 months. Why do you say it would take several years? Thank you.

If anyone else have a view on this, please don’t hesitate to share it.[/quote]

Certainly Sebastian.

The three curves of the spine; the neck, the dorsal or thoracic, and the lumbar are in that structure so that they can bear the body weight of the owner in a standing or erect position.When the integrity of the curves is sacrificed or absent, the structure weakens. We see this therapeutically in the cervical spine (neck) in what is referred to as a reversed cervical curve or “military neck”.

What we have learned is that these reductions in necessary curvature tend to force the disc mater toward the posterior (rear) of the neck. That not only encroaches into the spinal canal but also creates pressure on the nerves. In turn this causes issues in other parts of the body (that are feed by said nerves) and creates a sense of agitation in the nerves which one may loosely label “anxiety”.

Making changes in the structure of the spine (assuming an absence of trauma) can take years to influence. Just as we do not build up a reversed cervical curve in two month we do not undo a reversed cervical curve in two month. Just as we do not develop dowager’s hump in two months we do not undo it in two month. Just as we do not create lordosis or sway back in the lumbar spine in two months, neither do we remedy it it in that time.

Of course if a person were to dedicate all their waking hours to such things I suppose anything is possible. But the musculature close to the spine, specifically the intervertebral muscles, are so incredibly powerful they are tough to slice with a scalpel and there have been cases where a spasm in these muscles can shatter the adjacent vertebral bones. Not only are these involuntary muscles tough as nails, they are also not easy to fool.

Hope this is helpful.

gordon

#18

Here is the URL referred to in OP.

Esoterics & Science-
Flat Back - Why Is It Important?- “http://esosci.com/page/flatback”

Do they not mean neutral back/spine?

A healthy spine has a natural curvature.

#19

I’ve read your replies cautiously but I’m still not convinced. I think we’re discussing diffrerent things. What is advocated here is the flexing of the intervertebral discs to decrease the rigidness of the spine. Not the unhealthy uncurved back as a result of a medical condition. This would work the same way as if one were to increase the flexibility of the legs to be able to sit in lotus.

Gordon wrote:

Of course if a person were to dedicate all their waking hours to such things I suppose anything is possible. But the musculature close to the spine, specifically the intervertebral muscles, are so incredibly powerful they are tough to slice with a scalpel and there have been cases where a spasm in these muscles can shatter the adjacent vertebral bones. Not only are these involuntary muscles tough as nails, they are also not easy to fool.

This, I think is the core of the misunderstanding. The goal is not to rigidly impose a new uncurved positioning of the spine, but to slowly decrease the rigidness by continually flexing the intervertebral discs. This will undo the neural habit and the corollary muscle tensions of the spine. This is also why I think a duration of several months is realistic if this practice is applied faithfully. The goal is to slowly harmonize the backbone to the alteration with increased flexibility.

A healthy spine has a natural curvature.

Respectfully, there’s a great deal of purported common sense floating around which is the result of tradition as opposed to experience. The above statement by core789 reflects this. It may apply in one setting but not necessarily to all forms of practice.

#20

I have no interest in convincing you, or anyone else. I simply responded to your request and you may do with that information whatever you see fit to do.

More power to you brother. Move forward as your heart guides you. Please report back to us and let us know how you fare with this after a few months.

gordon