Following a Leader

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello all…question time…

I know there are people on this forum from other countries and I don’t want to assume everybody is aware of the historic election happening here in the US. If not, I’ll just say that one candidate has managed to energize and excite a huge portion of voters primarily, I think, by his rhetorical skills and his (vague but effective) promise of “change.” But the inevitable backlash is beginning and people are beginning to express their concerns or suspicions about him by writing off this “phenomenon” as “cult-like” or “Messianic.” Like all the other voters, I’ve been swept away by him, too but since this is not my usual behavior, my reaction bothers me a bit. I know there are good leaders in the world - whether it’s political, spiritual, religious (or any other kind) that use language and words to inspire or heal or to do good. On the other hand, there are also bad leaders like dictators, religious fanatics and scam artists, etc. who use language and words that sound good on the surface, but are really used to manipulate. All of this is obvious, but here’s what I’m wondering…

Why do some people fall under the spell of a bad leader and other people don’t? How do you know if what you start to believe in or decide to put your faith into, is the real thing or even good for you? When you start learning and allowing yourself to open up, don’t you naturally start to trust and accept things more? If so, then wouldn’t you become more vulnerable to this type of manipulation? Or said another way, don’t you need to hold onto just a little bit of skepticism in order to protect yourself?

To me, it seems like a good idea to hold onto skepticism - sort of like having a guardrail along the sides of a winding steep road. If they weren’t there, you could veer off into dangerous territory. These questions were also triggered by something I read on this forum. I can’t even describe what I was reading because it was all too “weirdly estoeric.” I was trying to understand what was being described, while wondering if I needed to have this information for some reason. I wanted to remain open but then, I had the strangest reaction. My heart starting beating really fast and I felt sort of panicky. I quickly logged off and actually felt shaky for about 15 minutes afterward. It was obviously a fearful reaction, but I’m not too sure what it was a fearful reaction TO exactly. Maybe I thought I almost fell for this manipulative lie or else I was starting to believe in the words of a real crazy person. (This is internet world after all). But then again, maybe it was all really legitimate. I just don’t know.

But somewhere in these questions, and in my reaction to these two events, lies my spiritual fear…

#2

Opening up more doesn’t require the abandonment of discrimination.
It merely means you consider the dualistic nature of the world. That considering or discrimination is most effective when the discriminator has a relationship with their central channel, Pilar of Light, heart center, soul, sushumna nadi, and thus their svadharma or purpose for being here.

It is only in the heart center where we find the voice free of agenda - not in the mental or vital.

#3

[quote=moth;9671] I wanted to remain open but then, I had the strangest reaction. My heart starting beating really fast and I felt sort of panicky. I quickly logged off and actually felt shaky for about 15 minutes afterward. It was obviously a fearful reaction, but I’m not too sure what it was a fearful reaction TO exactly.

But somewhere in these questions, and in my reaction to these two events, lies my spiritual fear…[/quote]
I agree with IA, opening up does not require the abandonment of discrimination. In fact, discrimination and discernment allow us to open up further to ourselves and to others. Saying “No” allows us to say “Yes.”

I know this reaction that you described too…very well. In the past, I had always assigned fear to it, but now I know for myself, that it is sometimes something else, even an invitation to stay and to burn. I wanted to share some techniques that I use in my own life and with my clients. It may or may not be useful to you.
I initially stay open to the sensations that first get my attention in my physical body. Where do I feel this in my physical body? Shaking, a racing heart (This is also where I register, along with the throat and right psoas). What is the quality of it? Is it fear? A warning? A invitation to stay and advance? Is there a healthy need to take myself out of the provoking situation or am I OK to stay in and look more closely. If OK, then just hang out and observe–become clear on what you are perceiving with your discernment and discrimination. Take your time, it takes practice to see these sensations for what they are truly are as they represent so many aspects.

I have found it has served me best to only allow teachers (leaders of sorts) and teachings into my life who expose me to myself and who lead me [B]only[/B] to the Sadguru, my inner teacher. Everything else is bullsh*t to me and I don’t want to waste any of my precious time on it.

#4

Hello Moth,

I read a delightful book years ago called The Boy who saw True. In it there is these wonderful words of the author:

“He asked me if I believed in ghosts.
And I said, yes.
Then he wanted to know if I’d ever seen one, and I said, lots.
Weren’t you afraid?
Not when they’re nice ghosts, said I,
but I don’t like the nasty ones…”

For me personally politicians falls in the nasty ghosts category.

To discern between the dualistic nature of what we see and experience without anger, fear and hatred, that is the sign of someone who has established a connection to the Inner Self and who sees True. Just my POV. :wink:

#5

If you’ve stumbled upon one of my ramblings, I assure you, it probably is bullcrap. I often wonder why do they keep me online here. :o
But you see, one must get through these crazy states, especially if one has issues, like me.
If what you read is not related to me, I would be very interested to know what it was. :slight_smile:

#6

Hi Moth,

would you as a painter agree that before you start developing any figurative or abstract style you need a good base in colours and forms? The same I see the spirituality. It starts here very down to earth. Imagine that we would all of us practice and focus only on the first teachings of yoga. That we would stop hurting each other on gross and more subtle levels, that we wouldn’t be so greedy, that we wouldn’t lie and steal from each other. Imagine that we would care enough for each other that everyone would have enough for a survival, that we would allow each other to express emotionaly and we would use our power to create beautiful things instead of trying to rule each other. What a huge difference that would be in the world. With only first teaching of yoga! No scepticism is needed for that beacuse you don’t need to follow anybody but yourself for that. Not all of us is a big reformator but everyone can find enough strenght to inspire maybe just a very small circle of people in everyday life. Than we could stop desperately trying to protect from each other, human being from human being. How silly is that? On an individual and global level. Than we would maybe also realize that we don’t need anyone to lead us beacuse we can lead ourselves. Rather we would have people who serve the world with their organizationl skills to communicate good on this planet.
Also the asana classes begin with the standing postures. Good grounding and strong legs are fundamental. The whole alignment of the body starts with the feet. Just recently in an anatomy class I realized that my grounding is still not strong enough. So back to the basics. I love it:-)

Cheers

#7

To Hubert…no, no, it wasn?t anything YOU said. You were the first to welcome me to this forum and you?ve helped me in a big way. You said I might benefit from the “jnanic approach” which at the time WAS weirdly esoteric, but now that I?m learning more about paths, this one seems the most like me. It might be too difficult but at least I?m going to read about it. So see? You?re sending me in the right direction. (I think).

To Pandara and Inner Athlete: From your replies, I’m understanding (and hope I’m reading you correctly) that if we can recognize what?s true or honest about ourselves, then we’ll be able to recognize those same qualities in others. And with this, comes the ability to discriminate more easily between good and bad intentions or words or actions or people. I think I?m at the point now where I need to read more about ethics and satya.

Nichole: Thanks for the practical and good advice on how to deal with my fear; it makes sense. I think my reaction was sort of a mini panic attack, because I felt I was about to get “sucked into” something I wasn?t ready for. But as I was trying to understand my fear, I came across a few things on the internet (speaking of untrustworthy things) that got me closer to…something…

First was an article called, Phobias:Yoga in the Treatment of Extreme Anxiety by Jigyasu Yogamrit. It said, “A psychoanalytic perspective suggests that the anxiety response in phobias is not to the object or the event itself, but to [I]the possibility that some unacceptable unconscious material is about to erupt into consciousness[/I].” That made sense, too. Add this to the fact that yesterday, I had some strange and new (but minor) pains and irritations at various points along the left side of my entire body. I didn?t think anything about it until I remembered that during a restorative breathing class last week, I had another strange sensation ? also on my left side. While in a relaxation pose, I felt a warmth that moved with each breath from my shoulder and out of my fingertips. Now today, I was reading about ida and that an imbalance of that nadi (did I say this right?) could result in a panic attack; and that when the mooladhara chakra is unbalanced it could result in certain symptoms including “fear of the future.” So the fact that I’m unbalanced (imbalanced?) makes sense, too I guess.

But then I found this by somebody named Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi: “A ‘catch’ (“your hands will speak”) is an imbalance. If we feel heat or tingling, or maybe even numbness in our fingertips, it means that our kundalini is alerting us to an imbalance in a particular chakra. For example: Left side is the emotional side, so it is also the side of pure desire. As seekers, our pure desire is to know the absolute truth. Of course, even when we begin to seek the truth, ego and super ego may tend to mislead us on our quest by enticing us with superficial desires. For example if you are still holding on to intellectual ideas or concepts of what truth is, when you are meditating you will very likely feel your left thumb. Left thumb corresponds to Swadisthan, the chakra of pure knowledge. So kundalini knows this misidentification is there and she starts working to clear it out, while making us aware of it as well.”

I’m not sure this makes sense and who is she? (Devi not Kundalini). All I know is that tonight I’m skipping practice and meditation. Instead, I’m going to wrap my unraveling ego tightly around me (and my left thumb) like a protective little blanket and together, we’re going to watch the presidential debate. For the time being, I need to be tied back down to earth. (Thanks Mirjana). I just shouldn’t be nosing around in certain spiritual places yet.

#8

To Pandara and Inner Athlete: From your replies, I’m understanding (and hope I’m reading you correctly) that if we can recognize what?s true or honest about ourselves, then we’ll be able to recognize those same qualities in others. And with this, comes the ability to discriminate more easily between good and bad intentions or words or actions or people. I think I?m at the point now where I need to read more about ethics and satya.

Simply read Patanjali 1:33

#9

The scariest thing is to realize that what we started as a hobby, or healing practice, in fact requires to involve our being on all levels of our life. There is no yoga and life anymore, just life in another world, a much more complex one. Things get complicated because the ignorant following of our instincts and conditioning stops, or at least is questioned, and we find that even the smallest actions require very high levels of responsability. If we advance too fast, this can be overwhelming. The best remedy is constant practice, and sticking to schedule, to the little things we accept as good, and maintaining a strong faith in our power to do whatever we required to do, whatever we face, even if often it seems that we are the weakest and worst person on Earth. Fear, feeling unworthy, are also obstacles.
Some think that yoga is a shortcut, where they can use tricks to develop faster, and get whatever they want.
I only believe in developing yogi qualities of the soul, like determination, will, selflesness, courage, faith, devotion. These must be developed way over the normal level, to levels unimaginable to the average person. This can be done through life. It doesn’t matter if a fearful event happens in the “outer” or your “inner” world, if it tests your courage. So no seclusion is required, but it might be a way for some. Whatever we go, whatever we do, we cannot escape our fate, ourselves, and this is a scary tought, but also, it is reassuring, because when you know there is no place to run, you stand up and fight.
Good news is that you came into this world with all the necessary tools, and you are facing the necessary obstacles. There is no chance there but there arent cheats either.

#10

I sort of freaked myself out with my last post and didn’t want to come back here, but I can’t leave without thanking everyone. So, thank you…once again. You’ve helped me…once again. I know what my “spiritual fear” is now. No need to elaborate, but I recognize it as a totally irrational fear. Although it’s still lingering, I think I can deal with it. I also see how this fear was (and still could be) an obstacle and how all my doubts are obstacles, too. My doubts far outnumber my fears but those usually go away once I find an answer to the question I’m asking. I have to believe that eventually, those will go away, too. I feel like I’ve hit a big bump in the road and almost veered off, but I didn’t. I did have to stop and compose myself though. Now, I’ll try to remember to drive slower, use a map, and make sure I keep my eyes on the road. But I will always appreciate whatever guideposts and guardrails I find along the way. Like this forum.

(and a moth has no business driving a car in the first place)

#11

[quote=moth;9688]To Hubert…no, no, it wasn?t anything YOU said. You were the first to welcome me to this forum and you?ve helped me in a big way. You said I might benefit from the “jnanic approach” which at the time WAS weirdly esoteric, but now that I?m learning more about paths, this one seems the most like me. It might be too difficult but at least I?m going to read about it. So see? You?re sending me in the right direction. (I think).

To Pandara and Inner Athlete: From your replies, I’m understanding (and hope I’m reading you correctly) that if we can recognize what?s true or honest about ourselves, then we’ll be able to recognize those same qualities in others. And with this, comes the ability to discriminate more easily between good and bad intentions or words or actions or people. I think I?m at the point now where I need to read more about ethics and satya.

Nichole: Thanks for the practical and good advice on how to deal with my fear; it makes sense. I think my reaction was sort of a mini panic attack, because I felt I was about to get “sucked into” something I wasn?t ready for. But as I was trying to understand my fear, I came across a few things on the internet (speaking of untrustworthy things) that got me closer to…something…

First was an article called, Phobias:Yoga in the Treatment of Extreme Anxiety by Jigyasu Yogamrit. It said, “A psychoanalytic perspective suggests that the anxiety response in phobias is not to the object or the event itself, but to [I]the possibility that some unacceptable unconscious material is about to erupt into consciousness[/I].” That made sense, too. Add this to the fact that yesterday, I had some strange and new (but minor) pains and irritations at various points along the left side of my entire body. I didn?t think anything about it until I remembered that during a restorative breathing class last week, I had another strange sensation ? also on my left side. While in a relaxation pose, I felt a warmth that moved with each breath from my shoulder and out of my fingertips. Now today, I was reading about ida and that an imbalance of that nadi (did I say this right?) could result in a panic attack; and that when the mooladhara chakra is unbalanced it could result in certain symptoms including “fear of the future.” So the fact that I’m unbalanced (imbalanced?) makes sense, too I guess.

But then I found this by somebody named Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi: “A ‘catch’ (“your hands will speak”) is an imbalance. If we feel heat or tingling, or maybe even numbness in our fingertips, it means that our kundalini is alerting us to an imbalance in a particular chakra. For example: Left side is the emotional side, so it is also the side of pure desire. As seekers, our pure desire is to know the absolute truth. Of course, even when we begin to seek the truth, ego and super ego may tend to mislead us on our quest by enticing us with superficial desires. For example if you are still holding on to intellectual ideas or concepts of what truth is, when you are meditating you will very likely feel your left thumb. Left thumb corresponds to Swadisthan, the chakra of pure knowledge. So kundalini knows this misidentification is there and she starts working to clear it out, while making us aware of it as well.”

I’m not sure this makes sense and who is she? (Devi not Kundalini). All I know is that tonight I’m skipping practice and meditation. Instead, I’m going to wrap my unraveling ego tightly around me (and my left thumb) like a protective little blanket and together, we’re going to watch the presidential debate. For the time being, I need to be tied back down to earth. (Thanks Mirjana). I just shouldn’t be nosing around in certain spiritual places yet.
[/quote]

hmmm… the article is interesting…