Gratitude and comfort

Spirituality
#21

I remember meeting a young man who had brain damage, and suffered terrible fits and was on drugs that were heavy but unable to control the fitting on all occasions. He had all the feelings of any other fit young man but was unable to be normal as we know it.

He was also aware of this which added to his suffering. He was looked after by his mother but eventually she found things too difficult and he was placed in a self catering place.where there was a warden. He was often confused and had fits that followed this confusion.

I went out for a few social drink with him and his mothers friends, he took a liking to me as a friend and I responded knowing he was lonely. At the end of the night he went to give me a hug. This hug was no normal hug, he had a tremendous presence about him of what I can only describe as pure love. I didnt want to let go and as I was holding him, I took note that it was something I was familiar with. Something profound that I had once experienced, only once.

This experience was of being held by something unseen, whilst fully awake, it was pure love, it held me for a few short minutes, it was divine in its essence and I knew it.

This young man was walking with this love, this pure divine entity.
After parting from the hug, I got into my car and had to think…He wasn’t alone, his suffering was not unnoticed.
He died two weeks later. I told his mother what I experienced that night from him. I meant every word, he wasn’t alone.

The conclusion I came to was not to doubt the power of divine entity’s giving silent invisible comfort to those who are deeply suffering Pawel. I hope this will assist you when you pray and meditate.

#22

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;39615]When we look at Karma from a spiritual perspective of self-realization, understanding the cause-effect relationship (primarily attributed to avidya vs direct perception) eliminates those causes in the seed form and thus the respective effects are pre-empted. But, the effects of certain other seeds caused by willful actions have to be lived out. This is the reason why even great spiritually advanced souls get physically sick which they understand why but their followers can’t. For the same reason, such souls with powerful siddhis do not interfere with other’s kamic charts. Karmic effects are only for the individual to live out or redeem.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for info Suhas. I will read about karma more because there are some confusing elements there for me. I heard that not only understanding of the cause-effect but also attachment affects “karmic output” of the actions. Then, karma is not pure cause-effect law that we could think of as one of laws of nature (in sense similar to laws in physics), but rather it is mixed with our psyche. E.g. with cognitive functions - because understanding affects it. And emotional state - as one of aspects of attachment. If thats the case, it is not “simple law of cause-effect” but incredibly complex process (as our inner life which is not simple).

About powerful siddhis getting sick: once I read (I think it was encyclopedia of Buddhism) that karma is not directly causing events in our life, but just affects conditions in which we are born. So in this case, if a powerful siddhi is getting sick, it has nothing to do with his karma, but rather e.g. germs that started infection. Its result of circumstances. Sort of result of his involvement with environment in which he decided to be.

#23

[QUOTE=kareng;39618]I remember meeting a young man who had brain damage, and suffered terrible fits and was on drugs that were heavy but unable to control the fitting on all occasions. He had all the feelings of any other fit young man but was unable to be normal as we know it.

He was also aware of this which added to his suffering. He was looked after by his mother but eventually she found things too difficult and he was placed in a self catering place.where there was a warden. He was often confused and had fits that followed this confusion.

I went out for a few social drink with him and his mothers friends, he took a liking to me as a friend and I responded knowing he was lonely. At the end of the night he went to give me a hug. This hug was no normal hug, he had a tremendous presence about him of what I can only describe as pure love. I didnt want to let go and as I was holding him, I took note that it was something I was familiar with. Something profound that I had once experienced, only once.

This experience was of being held by something unseen, whilst fully awake, it was pure love, it held me for a few short minutes, it was divine in its essence and I knew it.

This young man was walking with this love, this pure divine entity.
After parting from the hug, I got into my car and had to think…He wasn’t alone, his suffering was not unnoticed.
He died two weeks later. I told his mother what I experienced that night from him. I meant every word, he wasn’t alone.

The conclusion I came to was not to doubt the power of divine entity’s giving silent invisible comfort to those who are deeply suffering Pawel. I hope this will assist you when you pray and meditate.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Kareng. Beautiful story and experience you had then. I found similar message in Christian faith ? that our suffering is connected with the cross and we are never alone but God is in this experience with us. I would like to think that everyone feels this presence and this invisible comfort but unfortunately I have my doubts ? hearing people saying how lonely and abandoned they are in suffering. I get some comfort from a thought that once it?s over, those people will forget about this suffering time and see greater picture in their life and development.

#24

In Hinduism and Buddhism, as you know, karma is the factor. You Pawel will have suffered many many many times, in all sorts of horrific ways, before you got to the life you have now.
You will have been murdered, tortured maybe, beaten, starved, possibly numerous times, lost family inappropriately…the list could go on…you have to remember this as a fact…you have had your share of terrible suffering.

Now you have the life you have, you are an old soul that has had a long suffering journey, you have reached this point of a better life. Rejoice in it Pawel, you have earned it, in every way possible.

In practical terms, donate money if you can, always be kind to everyone you meet, do more to help the needy, if you can, if you cant then simply meditate/pray for the suffering.
Remember that all those suffering will , along their souls journey be just like you one day, feeling just the same as you. Would you then, if you met them, remind them of how they once suffered?

#25

A very touching story, Kareng, the one about the young man with the fits.

I think it illustrates that suffering can often heighten our awareness,make us [I]more[/I] in-tune,more receptive, grateful, compassionate,understanding,loving and so on.I do think it can make us better people, if we’ve suffered or are suffering.It often serves as a wake-up call to the fragility of life,it’s inevitable vulnerablilites and insecurities, i.e uncertainties.

I know that when you’re really young you imagine you’ll live forever.And you often imagine you’re semi-invincible and that very little can touch you.That feeling of invincibility that you have in ‘relative youth’,that i certainly had when “growing up”, an on-going process here, can be gradually chipped away or even suddenly chopped off.It’s like a wake-up call to life’s delicate balance.So people experiencing loss often report it as a time of “spiritual” growth or a new change of perspective. Soometimes what you get is a paradigm shift, one in their consciousness when their values often change.They might realise then that say the nice job or material tappings of success they maybe aspired to in their youth,the paradigm then, no longer holds the value they have today.They may begin to see the things that matter more,life’s priorities, and start putting themselves in the centre of things much less.

#26

I think as you get older(i’m still young btw) you become aware of the fact that people actually die,and have actually done so,perhaps people you’ve known or certainly heard about… Mortality is a fact of life and usually we don’t choose or often know when it’s coming.Some may just get hit by a bus or have some other misadventure or accident.They may get a few hours then their life may suddenly flash before them in the closing moments, or a few seconds.But there’s not necessarily any “official” anouncement (diagnosis or whatever) or prediction ,you might feel you could prepare for, or not , whether one might [I]feel[/I] completely ready or not.

I’ve heard of all the Tibetan Bardot stuff though i’m not really sure what to make of it- like the idea ,i think suggested, that you may be able to affect what happens next by the state of mind you’re in.There’s some mythology built around it.I think I found some of this and some other stuff a bit spooky for some reason…

#27

[QUOTE=kareng;39688]In Hinduism and Buddhism, as you know, karma is the factor. You Pawel will have suffered many many many times, in all sorts of horrific ways, before you got to the life you have now.
You will have been murdered, tortured maybe, beaten, starved, possibly numerous times, lost family inappropriately…the list could go on…you have to remember this as a fact…you have had your share of terrible suffering.

Now you have the life you have, you are an old soul that has had a long suffering journey, you have reached this point of a better life. Rejoice in it Pawel, you have earned it, in every way possible.

In practical terms, donate money if you can, always be kind to everyone you meet, do more to help the needy, if you can, if you cant then simply meditate/pray for the suffering.
Remember that all those suffering will , along their souls journey be just like you one day, feeling just the same as you. Would you then, if you met them, remind them of how they once suffered?[/QUOTE]

Thank you Kareng for very touching words. If thats the case, maybe its good we don’t remember past lives. I will keep your words in mind!

#28

Pawel,

What a wonderfully reflective question! It shows your true essence that you have thought about this. You have received quite a lot of good advise from all who have posted. You will know how to resolve this inner conflict you are struggling with in the end. Perhaps the fact that you are struggling with this is helping you to understand all others who are struggling. Could be that simple. This could be the lessen you need to learn in this lifetime.

I read this thread days ago and have been pondering this a lot. (which I do quite often) Pandara said something so simple yet so difficult to embrace, but it is something very important nonetheless…Be grateful also for the “bad” things in life. I find, in my own life, this is very difficult. It’s not something we are usually taught as children. But I am understanding this more and more with the challenges I am facing, that there are so many lessons to learn from the bad aspects of our lives. This is how we grow spiritually. It’s all about balance. What I’ve taken from this is, "yes, have gratitude for for the good, the beauty that surrounds us, but also be grateful for the bad. When we are able to be grateful for the bad, we will see the beauty that grows from that realization.

One final thought Pawel. Perhaps this was a calling for you to do some type of volunteer work helping those who are suffering in some way?

I hope this helps in some small way.

Namaste Pawel!

#29

I am loving the direction this thread has taken, every single post. :slight_smile:
Lotusgirl,
One thing I learned when I embarked on my “journey” to Know Truth when I was in my early 20’s was to look for the lesson in everything that happened to me, be it good or difficult. I also learned not to label anything as “bad” (on the surface, in our day to day life, we will, but I mean it in a much deeper, more spiritual sense, not man’s definition). We will experience undesireable things, but in every single thing we experience, there is a lesson for us. When we are in it, we may forget that. But in hindsight, on the other side of a difficult experience, we can ask, what did I learn from that? What CAN I still learn from that? Do this often enough, and you will find yourself in the middle of difficulty beginning to see it as a bright opportunity and ask yourself, oh, what can I learn from this? What is my lesson here? It somewhat takes you out of the self centered concern for your feelings, and puts you in a growing place.
Woops gotta go, my ride is here.
Have a wonderful day!

#30

Thanks Joanna63 for your insight. I agree with the entirety of your post. There was a time in my life when I was in the self centered concern phase due to some traumatic moments, but I see now I’m in a growing place. It is a much better place!

And you have a wonderful day too!

#31

Hi Lotusgirl,
Thank you for your kind words.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;39723] Perhaps the fact that you are struggling with this is helping you to understand all others who are struggling. Could be that simple. This could be the lessen you need to learn in this lifetime. [/QUOTE]

I will ponder on that. The lesson is surely important. That’s why I deeply appreciate yours and others kind and healing words, but on other hand I also try to remember to not use your kindness to neutralize this conflict and confusion and simply feel better and forget about the whole thing. I came to learn that crisis of faith carries important meaning for us and is an opportunity for growth. I think now that my “problem” is not about me as individual, not about other individual people, but rather about the way things are (by things I mean life and how it evolves). Irrespectively of religion, we all are getting closer and closer to greater and more conscious participation in laws of the universe. Question is, are we ready for that? Do we understand the greater picture behind individual tragedies and suffering? Would we be ready to be e.g. “angel of death” bringing destruction to all families? I sometimes feel that I would like to just participate in cozy and warm part of the reality. But in some way it’s limitation of the spirit. And to open up and grow we need to let go of some beliefs. I guess in my case this belief would be that God/Spirit/Universe has only cozy intents toward evolution of life.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;39723]I read this thread days ago and have been pondering this a lot. (which I do quite often) Pandara said something so simple yet so difficult to embrace, but it is something very important nonetheless…Be grateful also for the “bad” things in life. I find, in my own life, this is very difficult. It’s not something we are usually taught as children. But I am understanding this more and more with the challenges I am facing, that there are so many lessons to learn from the bad aspects of our lives. This is how we grow spiritually. It’s all about balance. What I’ve taken from this is, "yes, have gratitude for for the good, the beauty that surrounds us, but also be grateful for the bad. When we are able to be grateful for the bad, we will see the beauty that grows from that realization. [/QUOTE]

After Pandara post I started to include thanking for difficult things in my life. Its powerful thing. It reminds me tonglen practice from Buddhism. Somehow befriends you with “darker” aspects of life. I also recalled recently book of Job from Bible. In second chapter there is this fragment:

"So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself therewith; and he sat among the ashes.
Then said his wife unto him: Dost thou still hold fast thine integrity? Renounce God, and die.
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.”

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;39723]One final thought Pawel. Perhaps this was a calling for you to do some type of volunteer work helping those who are suffering in some way? [/QUOTE]

True, I have been thinking about it for some time now. I do some charity but I wasn’t physically involved. Maybe it’s time to change that.

#32

Being compassionate towards our fellow beings is a very noble virtue.

However, when we pray with gratitude, we are thanking God/The Universe for everything in [I]our own lives[/I], both the positive and the negative things.

Without negative experiences, we will not learn and just stagnate.

When one has a pure heart, it’s very difficult to witness the suffering of others but we also have to overcome that and realise that we are not really in a position to do anything about that but remain thoughtful and compassionate, including such people in our prayers.

All we can do, is help those around us…those we [B]can[/B] help out and pray that the universal ‘knock-on effect’ reaches those we cannot assist…then just open our hearts and infuse the universe with love and hope for the best.

#33

Hi,

You are so compassionate! The whole world, sentient and insentient is an extension of your own self. If you experience the pain for others, it is your very own, same way if you do not experience pain for others, the pain and suffering do not exist. Embrace the whole existence into your being and pray to the Universe “Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu.”
“May Everyone in the Universe experience Peace,Happiness and Bliss.”

May God Bless You!!

[QUOTE=Pawel;39435]Hi,
I have little question to those who pray thanks to God and/or practice attitude of gratitude in life.

Recently I noticed that in my prayer I start to be more and more confused and uncomfortable thanking for my life - especially good parts. The thing is: how can I thank God/Spirit for my own comfort and beauty that surrounds me knowing that millions of people are starving at the same moment? (and in general knowing their suffering) How can I attribute those gifts with God/Spirit nature of love? (that is what we usually think - that those gifts are expression of love toward us). There is a conflict - the same Giver gave me comfort and beautiful surroundings while others received suffering. I feel that my gratitude is somewhat ignorant in this context. I feel bit stupid - like a one child in a starving village that is secretly supplied with sweets and trying to think how life is beautiful. It’s difficult to explain but I hope its somewhat clear what I mean.

I know that you could explain that by karma: eg. child born with terminal disease did something bad in past lives and now has to suffer consequences. I wouldn’t mind following this idea but maybe someone has similar experience and some light on this problem?[/QUOTE]

#34

[QUOTE=himalayanyogi;39979]Hi,

You are so compassionate! The whole world, sentient and insentient is an extension of your own self. If you experience the pain for others, it is your very own, same way if you do not experience pain for others, the pain and suffering do not exist. Embrace the whole existence into your being and pray to the Universe “Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu.”
“May Everyone in the Universe experience Peace,Happiness and Bliss.”

May God Bless You!![/QUOTE]

Hi Himalayanyogi, (cool nick!)
Thanks for kind words. I don’t have problem with feeling compassion, but rather with implications of existence of suffering in the world.

I was wondering about this “embracing whole existence” and came to little riddle: if you will realize that there is just one self, and you will be in mystical way connected to it. Do you feel suffering of other selfs? If someone sits in ecstasy claiming he/she is in direct unity with Universe but has no feeling of “dark” parts of life - to what he/she is actually connected?

Just a brain teaser :wink:

#35

Hi Dear,

     If a person is complete or  claims to be connected to the universal consciousness or  is in unity consciousness then the person is no more an individual or isolated from anything, sentient or insentient. For example if some one plucks your one hair, you will feel the pain and if all the hairs on your body is plucked simultaneously, how much pain will you feel??? The Buddha undergoes the same experience and  is aware about all the pain, agony, miseries of everybody. Nevertheless, the secret is that the complete one is just a witness to all the events but not indifferent. From this state unconditional love is expressed in form  compassion to all. Yes Dear One! I do feel suffering of others but I'm incomplete. "The embrace is not a physical embrace", it is the expansiveness one experiences from this state- "No one is different from Me" all are the reflections of the same self. "Sarvam Khalvidam Brahmasi".   [QUOTE=Pawel;40012]Hi Himalayanyogi, (cool nick!)

Thanks for kind words. I don’t have problem with feeling compassion, but rather with implications of existence of suffering in the world.

I was wondering about this “embracing whole existence” and came to little riddle: if you will realize that there is just one self, and you will be in mystical way connected to it. Do you feel suffering of other selfs? If someone sits in ecstasy claiming he/she is in direct unity with Universe but has no feeling of “dark” parts of life - to what he/she is actually connected?

Just a brain teaser ;)[/QUOTE]

#36

[QUOTE=himalayanyogi;40013]Hi Dear,

     If a person is complete or  claims to be connected to the universal consciousness or  is in unity consciousness then the person is no more an individual or isolated from anything, sentient or insentient. For example if some one plucks your one hair, you will feel the pain and if all the hairs on your body is plucked simultaneously, how much pain will you feel??? The Buddha undergoes the same experience and is aware about all the pain, agony, miseries of everybody. Nevertheless, the secret is that the complete one is just a witness to all the events but not indifferent. From this state unconditional love is expressed in form  compassion to all. Yes Dear One! I do feel suffering of others but I'm incomplete. "The embrace is not a physical embrace", it is the expansiveness one experiences from this state- "No one is different from Me" all are the reflections of the same self. "Sarvam Khalvidam Brahmasi".[/QUOTE]

Hi Himalayanyogi,
Thanks for information. Very interesting. Do you know where to find some descriptions of this experience of “being aware of all the pain in state of unity of consciousness”? You mention Buddha - do you know where could I find this info? That would be interesting to read.

Also, since you seem to be familiar with those concepts much more than me, how do you understand being in “unity of consciousness”? Is realization that we all are made of the same self or, that we are part of the one Self? If the second, did you experience or read about experience of such unity and whether in this state you are aware of other people consciousness (e.g. registering their joys, pains etc.)?

#37

Hi Pawel,

If I find such references, i’ll definitely forward it to you. Realization: I cannot comment on it, as I’m not yet realized.

Thanks

[QUOTE=Pawel;40018]Hi Himalayanyogi,
Thanks for information. Very interesting. Do you know where to find some descriptions of this experience of “being aware of all the pain in state of unity of consciousness”? You mention Buddha - do you know where could I find this info? That would be interesting to read.

Also, since you seem to be familiar with those concepts much more than me, how do you understand being in “unity of consciousness”? Is realization that we all are made of the same self or, that we are part of the one Self? If the second, did you experience or read about experience of such unity and whether in this state you are aware of other people consciousness (e.g. registering their joys, pains etc.)?[/QUOTE]

#38

Very interesting conversation!

So, if you experience the pain of others, there is pain. The key is to be aware, but not experience. Once you are aware, without the attachment of the pain and suffering, you are able to find compassion for all those who are suffering. In that awareness of pain and suffering you can then find a way to end the suffering of others. It is through compassion that we find we are no different because we are all connected.

Am I far off on my simplistic summary? Such a difficult concept!

#39

Hi Lotusgirl,

Compassion is just one element, there are many elements which defines the complete state of being. Lord Christ prayed to God seeking forgiveness for the ignorant people, that was out of compassion.
So at that level divinity can only express compassion. The truth is “God is Love”, and not “God is Loving”. So we all can attain this state of unconditional love, compassion is love expressed in it’s complete form.

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;40031]Very interesting conversation!

So, if you experience the pain of others, there is pain. The key is to be aware, but not experience. Once you are aware, without the attachment of the pain and suffering, you are able to find compassion for all those who are suffering. In that awareness of pain and suffering you can then find a way to end the suffering of others. It is through compassion that we find we are no different because we are all connected.

Am I far off on my simplistic summary? Such a difficult concept![/QUOTE]

#40

Thank you! I especially liked your last sentence!