Gratitude and comfort

Spirituality
#1

Hi,
I have little question to those who pray thanks to God and/or practice attitude of gratitude in life.

Recently I noticed that in my prayer I start to be more and more confused and uncomfortable thanking for my life - especially good parts. The thing is: how can I thank God/Spirit for my own comfort and beauty that surrounds me knowing that millions of people are starving at the same moment? (and in general knowing their suffering) How can I attribute those gifts with God/Spirit nature of love? (that is what we usually think - that those gifts are expression of love toward us). There is a conflict - the same Giver gave me comfort and beautiful surroundings while others received suffering. I feel that my gratitude is somewhat ignorant in this context. I feel bit stupid - like a one child in a starving village that is secretly supplied with sweets and trying to think how life is beautiful. It’s difficult to explain but I hope its somewhat clear what I mean.

I know that you could explain that by karma: eg. child born with terminal disease did something bad in past lives and now has to suffer consequences. I wouldn’t mind following this idea but maybe someone has similar experience and some light on this problem?

#2

Just posted on the “Guilt” thread and now there are some parallels to it in what you wrote.
In fact, I foresee your subject becoming an interesting discussion which may be also more relevant to the “Religion” forum.
Although I think most religions are similar in their core, the problem of unfairness is sharp in Christianity and Karma really explains it.
Directly on the subject I think that [B]gratitude is for ourselves - to feel how precious life is[/B].
So, theres no need to feel guilty that someone is suffering. Compassion is more suitable, but, being honest, to me its not inherent to feel it strongly.

#3

Do you show your gratitude for the “bad” parts of your life as well? I am sure if you start to give praise and thanks for those aspects of your life which is not always flowing and in harmony with you, you might realise that you are suffering just as much as a needy child in africa, just in another way.

Another aspect which my teacher taught me was that the balance for gratitude is the blessing breath, instead of feeling guilty and powerless in the face of so much suffering, she taught us to bless such people and situations, which brings the balance into your life. I have in many other threads explain both these practices at length.

#4

I think one can be grateful for the blessings God has given them, and recognizing that these are gifts, as they were given to help one to do good in their corner of the world. God saw fit to give you a comfortable home and many other blessings so that you could focus on your true purpose for being here.
But don’t forget, as Pandara has pointed out, to be grateful and thankful for those difficult situations that gave us a chance to learn and grow. We should be especially grateful for these things!

Those who do not have your blessings have a different lesson and path for their life. You can also include in your prayers that everyone see the beauty in life, regardless of their blessings or burdens, and that they too can see that they can make changes in their life and the lives of others. And pray that God always keep your eyes open to the truth and lessons He is seeing fit to give you, so that you can be even more blessed to recognize those lessons before they become true trials! :slight_smile:

#5

The in-flight security announcement teaches us something. It says, in emergency when the oxygen masks drop, put one to your mouth BEFORE helping the children. Our thanks are due in the prayer for making us able enough to help the needy. Especially helping those who can’t even pray.

But thanks are also due when we realise why we are able and someone is not. Law of Karma is simple, every cause must end in an effect. We can pray for more strength for not creating a cause for future effects and more wisdom for redeeming a past cause to pre-empt its effects.

And we can also thank for this human life that allows us an opportunity of redemption, thus eliminating future pain for someone.

#6

[QUOTE=Sasha;39437]In fact, I foresee your subject becoming an interesting discussion which may be also more relevant to the “Religion” forum.[/QUOTE]

God forbid! To turn this thread into debate which religion is the best and why Abrahamaic religions suck :wink: :wink: :wink:

[QUOTE=Sasha;39437]Although I think most religions are similar in their core, the problem of unfairness is sharp in Christianity and Karma really explains it. Directly on the subject I think that [B]gratitude is for ourselves - to feel how precious life is[/B]. So, theres no need to feel guilty that someone is suffering. Compassion is more suitable, but, being honest, to me its not inherent to feel it strongly.[/QUOTE]

True, concept of karma explains it very well. Then someone suffering is experiencing results of his action and you should aid him in this process – show compassion. Like giving some coffee to friend who drank too much and has hangover now. Then I wouldn’t feel guilty that I’m ok. But in context of Christianity its more difficult to explain…

#7

[QUOTE=Pandara;39446]Do you show your gratitude for the “bad” parts of your life as well? I am sure if you start to give praise and thanks for those aspects of your life which is not always flowing and in harmony with you, you might realise that you are suffering just as much as a needy child in africa, just in another way. [/QUOTE]

I tried to include those things that trouble me in my morning prayer. It was sad somehow. It removed this feeling of “guilt” but when I looked closer it was only because this awareness of suffering of others faded. And it changed the way I feel grateful, but can’t see exactly how. Hm… I will ponder on that…

[QUOTE=Pandara;39446]Another aspect which my teacher taught me was that the balance for gratitude is the blessing breath, instead of feeling guilty and powerless in the face of so much suffering, she taught us to bless such people and situations, which brings the balance into your life. I have in many other threads explain both these practices at length.[/QUOTE]

Would it correspond with taking action? When I asked the same question to my Christian friends the most common answer is to focus on helping those in need (both physically and in prayer). If you mean something similar, I totally agree, but also I’m bit suspicious whether its form of running away from disturbing feeling/thoughts.

#8

[QUOTE=Joanna63;39461]I think one can be grateful for the blessings God has given them, and recognizing that these are gifts, as they were given to help one to do good in their corner of the world. God saw fit to give you a comfortable home and many other blessings so that you could focus on your true purpose for being here.
But don’t forget, as Pandara has pointed out, to be grateful and thankful for those difficult situations that gave us a chance to learn and grow. We should be especially grateful for these things!

Those who do not have your blessings have a different lesson and path for their life. You can also include in your prayers that everyone see the beauty in life, regardless of their blessings or burdens, and that they too can see that they can make changes in their life and the lives of others. And pray that God always keep your eyes open to the truth and lessons He is seeing fit to give you, so that you can be even more blessed to recognize those lessons before they become true trials! :)[/QUOTE]

I think you can see my dilemma: if I see my comfort and beauty around as blessing (meaning things the best for me at the moment), I would have to conclude that pain and suffering experienced by others is also a blessing. In extreme forms it becomes very disturbing thought to me. For example, is little girl that is raped and beaten by her brutal father is receiving a blessing from God/Spirit? Is it the best for her growth in her youth?

#9

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;39467]The in-flight security announcement teaches us something. It says, in emergency when the oxygen masks drop, put one to your mouth BEFORE helping the children. Our thanks are due in the prayer for making us able enough to help the needy. Especially helping those who can’t even pray.

But thanks are also due when we realise why we are able and someone is not. Law of Karma is simple, every cause must end in an effect. We can pray for more strength for not creating a cause for future effects and more wisdom for redeeming a past cause to pre-empt its effects.

And we can also thank for this human life that allows us an opportunity of redemption, thus eliminating future pain for someone.[/QUOTE]

Well said! I see you know a bit about karma concept. Could you explain how our understanding of the cause for given condition (e.g. sin from the past) can remove a need for effect? (this “pre-empt its effect” term) I found it bit confusing in opposite context: will our understanding of our good deeds will also remove their positive karmic effect? I was recently wondering is karma related to “good/evil” or is it sort of “blind” to moral categories.

#10

I thought I will add a thought I had today: adding biological dimension to question about origin of suffering. One of the most senseless things we can see is newborns and small babies dying because of genetic defect or disease. Before even crawling and saying few words. I just realized yesterday that from biological point of view, their death is preventing propagation of “bad” genotypes (“bad” in meaning of defects and lack of ability to result in healthy and immune body). So this suffering and death is in some sense their gift/sacrifice to all humanity. They stop development of biological weakness of whole species.

This is something to be grateful for: how many babies died in a history of evolution so I, when become infected, just sneeze/get some fever instead of dropping to the ground with my brain crawling with germs (which would be the case if my immune system would be harden up through selection). We should remember those sacrifices…

#11

I am not sure we should be greatful of the fact babies are being born with disease and dying. I can hardly see that as a gift to humanity. In fact, if we look closer, this notion could easily be used to justify genocide by killing off less biologically developed humans to preserve the good genes. Indeed, this is exactly the justification that Hitler gave in his eugenic programs.

I think it is a terrible reality that babies are being born with diseases, deformaties, defects both for their parents and themselves. It is certainly nothing desirable.

As others have already said the best way to explain why children are born with diseases, deformaties, defects etc is because of their karma. Ideally, you should be born in a healthy body with an intelligent mind, good parents and good society, then you can enjoy the maximum benefits in life.

#12

Not action but with intention.

#13

SD, how can you know and tell for certain that the person born in poverty and live life under very difficult circumstances in not benefiting to the maximum on a soul level? Physically he might expereince difficulty, but who are we to say that on a soul level he is not enjoying maximum benefit?

During a lecture once by Swami Sahajananda, who was the head of the Divine Life Society in SA until his death in 2007 and a direct disciple of Swami Sivanada Saraswati, he told us that only one in every ten incarnations is a fortunate one. Swamiji told us at that lecture that this is so much more reason to give praise and thanks if you do have a good incarnation.

#14

Brother Pawel,
I once was at a church where they were talking about poverty, how some people were so poor and did not have clean water to drink. they talked about how little money they made etc… etc… also, during that sermon they played a video showing the living conditions of these people, very small houses for a lot of people, dirty places to live, etc… but the interesting thing that I saw, when this video was played, was the smiles on their faces, the people in poverty. they smiled what i would call genuiene smiles, very few if any wrinkles on their forhead.
Many years ago in costa rica I saw a village of squatters. the houses were about the size of most kitchens in the houses of the US and many of those small houses, 15 feet by 15 feet, or 5X5 meters as I belive you go by metric. One of the children came outside and when I saw him he had a great big ole smile on his face.

some people may worry about thier next meal and when they get it they are very greatful, some people worry about their next car payment, house payment, electrical bill, cell phone bill, etc…

Only when we live in another persons shoes can we tell/judge how they feel. In many countries where there is poverty, people live very closely togethor. In many big cities people live in bigger houses but more seperated, by body and maybe by spirit, I dont know.
so my suggestion is to be happy for what you are happy for, greatful for what you are greatful for. Judging by your posts you have a big heart.

my best to you pawel, may this bring you some comfort
brother Neil

#15

During a lecture once by Swami Sahajananda, who was the head of the Divine Life Society in SA until his death in 2007 and a direct disciple of Swami Sivanada Saraswati, he told us that only one in every ten incarnations is a fortunate one. Swamiji told us at that lecture that this is so much more reason to give praise and thanks if you do have a good incarnation.

No disrespect intended to the Swami, but how does he know? What is his source?

#16

His guru, Swami Sivananda, who was a highly enlightened soul. Sorry no books and evidence, pure faith in what his master taught him.

#17

[QUOTE=Brother Neil;39528]Brother Pawel,
I once was at a church where they were talking about poverty, how some people were so poor and did not have clean water to drink. they talked about how little money they made etc… etc… also, during that sermon they played a video showing the living conditions of these people, very small houses for a lot of people, dirty places to live, etc… but the interesting thing that I saw, when this video was played, was the smiles on their faces, the people in poverty. they smiled what i would call genuiene smiles, very few if any wrinkles on their forhead.
Many years ago in costa rica I saw a village of squatters. the houses were about the size of most kitchens in the houses of the US and many of those small houses, 15 feet by 15 feet, or 5X5 meters as I belive you go by metric. One of the children came outside and when I saw him he had a great big ole smile on his face.

some people may worry about thier next meal and when they get it they are very greatful, some people worry about their next car payment, house payment, electrical bill, cell phone bill, etc…

Only when we live in another persons shoes can we tell/judge how they feel. In many countries where there is poverty, people live very closely togethor. In many big cities people live in bigger houses but more seperated, by body and maybe by spirit, I dont know.
so my suggestion is to be happy for what you are happy for, greatful for what you are greatful for. Judging by your posts you have a big heart.

my best to you pawel, may this bring you some comfort
brother Neil[/QUOTE]

Hello Brother Neil,

Thank you for sharing and kind words. I know what you mean with those videos of ?poor? life with people smiling from ear to ear. It sometimes looks comical shown in church full of bored and stiff people. But I mean not only harsh living conditions but rather overwhelming suffering ? the end of the spectrum. And also triggered by that thoughts about nature of evolution of life. For example, if we would learn that there is a school at which every day kids are gathered at the field and given tasks to perform. And each day the least efficient person is executed. We would be horrified by such school and demand to intervene. But such way of ?teaching? is exactly how life was shaped and evolved. So the wisdom of universe is in some way similar to mentality of director of such school. I guess I?m not discovering anything new, but those thoughts were troubling me for long time and I think it?s time to face them.
All the best!!!

#18

[QUOTE=thomas;39539]No disrespect intended to the Swami, but how does he know? What is his source?[/QUOTE]

Maybe it was just rough idea and not exact number. We could say that 10% of people live in relative comfort. So, if material wealth is not a condition in next target of reincarnation, then on average every 10 reincarnations there is “materially fortunate” one.

#19

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;39478]I am not sure we should be greatful of the fact babies are being born with disease and dying. I can hardly see that as a gift to humanity. In fact, if we look closer, this notion could easily be used to justify genocide by killing off less biologically developed humans to preserve the good genes. Indeed, this is exactly the justification that Hitler gave in his eugenic programs.

I think it is a terrible reality that babies are being born with diseases, deformaties, defects both for their parents and themselves. It is certainly nothing desirable.

As others have already said the best way to explain why children are born with diseases, deformaties, defects etc is because of their karma. Ideally, you should be born in a healthy body with an intelligent mind, good parents and good society, then you can enjoy the maximum benefits in life.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t mean gift literally - those babies didn’t give anything willingly, life was rather taken from them. It was rather sacrifice. The more I think about it the more sense it makes. In order to adapt to environment life has to confront it and loose parts that are not copying with demands. Give birth to lot of offspring and continue only through those who survived and were able to reproduce. The fact that I’m alive and happy is because of painful adaptation of my ancestors and death/defeat of my biological enemies. Its like a picnic on a graveyard (picnic because often I have a feeling that world is such a beautiful place and life is just great; and graveyard because of knowledge of life history).

What is troubling me, is that I assume that spiritual laws of universe are good and that I will assimilate them as I learn. That they will be beautiful and moral. What scares me is that I find some laws that are not so beautiful and moral (e.g. like this one on brutal nature of evolution of life). Do I want to incorporate such laws into my life? No. I find them very disturbing. So in some sense I’m against such laws of universe and all forces which put them in place and sustain them.

Ps. On more positive note, I had a thought today about this problem you mentioned - “killing less biologically developed humans” and evolution in general. Saving babies and less biologically developed humans by means of advanced medicine is not against laws of evolution. The essence of evolution is to survive and reproduce. Not by strength and aggression - but just adaptation in any way possible. If we are able to fight off diseases and give such people means to adapt to life and society and have families - thats exactly what evolution “expects”. Fighting for your kids survival using claws and using medical equipment is not so different from evolutionary perspective.

#20

[QUOTE=Pawel;39472]Could you explain how our understanding of the cause for given condition (e.g. sin from the past) can remove a need for effect? (this “pre-empt its effect” term) I found it bit confusing in opposite context: will our understanding of our good deeds will also remove their positive karmic effect? I was recently wondering is karma related to “good/evil” or is it sort of “blind” to moral categories.[/QUOTE]

Pawel,

I rely on Sage Patanjali’s exposition of Karma. According to him, Karma is a simple equation ‘each cause is followed by its effect’. This simple principle becomes a humongous algorithm when one looks at the infinite potential ways in which an ‘effect’ can happen, given the billions of people and their infinite life situations.

You are right. Karma is a simple, clinically correct statement free from good/ bad or right/wrong biases. Karma causes remain in seed form and germinate into effects in various time-frames - immediate vs. across life-times. Our lack of knowledge of previous lives makes it utterly difficult for us to connect our present events to some unkown causes of the distant past. This compels us to look at Karma very subjectively.

When we look at Karma from a spiritual perspective of self-realization, understanding the cause-effect relationship (primarily attributed to avidya vs direct perception) eliminates those causes in the seed form and thus the respective effects are pre-empted. But, the effects of certain other seeds caused by willful actions have to be lived out. This is the reason why even great spiritually advanced souls get physically sick which they understand why but their followers can’t. For the same reason, such souls with powerful siddhis do not interfere with other’s kamic charts. Karmic effects are only for the individual to live out or redeem.