To add to the good advice youre getting,you could perhaps prop your arms by folding a blanket so it is the length of arm then rest your arms and hands on a blanket each side , this can support your body , so it can release and you can achieve a comfortable pose.
hope this makes sense
Hi Goddes Tapping, thanks for your reply!
I’ll precursor this by saying I am not a yoga teacher and Siva has offered some very experienced insight. I am a spiritual teacher and energy worker so I sometimes have insight that may be helpful.
Understood, but I don’t care, stuff either makes sense or doesn’t, either works, or doesn’t. Sapere aude (see Wikipedia; I may not link yet) is a motto I live by.
I have a student with a similar problem to yours. His brachioradialis is extremely inflexible and it prevents him from supinating his palms. I’m not sure if that is your problem, but the result is the same. His palms don’t face up in Shavasana either.
It is exactly that muscle where I feel tension in, yes, and thanks for giving me the proper name of it. When I had a look at an image (@Wikipedia as well), something made click in my head and I realized why I have this problem: I am working on the computer at least 5, often many more hours a day, so my forearms are flexed to the opposite direction of what would be good for Shavasana. (In fact, the day I started with Asana-sessions was one where I had an acute mouse-arm…)
On the other hand I wouldn’t know a procedure or activity where the forearm is held as in Shavasana, except when accepting change (cash) or something like that. I even looked at images of corpses and found most of them with palms facing down…
This is how we are addressing his problem and why. I have him approach Shavasana in two parts. The first half, I have him lay at whatever distance is necessary to have his palms facing up for the discipline of the practice. As Siva said, it may be resistance and so it is necessary to do it correctly. But ultimately, this is usually uncomfortable for him, and I believe it interferes with the meditative process of integrating the Yoga practice.
So, for the second half, I have him lay in whatever position is comfortable for his hands so that he may attend to the meditative aspect of the practice more fully without the distraction of discomfort.
This sounds sound on first sight and I’d so far done that variation-thing too, but in my glorious 4 months of practice, nothing has ever changed to my forearm-flexibility, so doubt has risen that it will get me anywhere. Therefore, I’m at a current conclusion to just go relaxation in Shavasana and do something about that flexibility outside the pose:
I also do very specific stretches with him that are not “yoga”.
Can you describe them? I flexed my forearms to the “good” direction all day today, and I did a … Namaste-gesture with turning the fingertips to the ground instead of having them point to the sky. Obviously, I cannot yet say if it makes a difference (will note it here, in case it does).
And of course, he works at his yoga practice to increase flexibility. He has had a lot of improvement.
That’s good to hear, because while I’m having a lot of nigh-unbelievable improvement in any part of my body, this particular spot didn’t change a bit. It’s like it was on day 1. I guess that is because the increase of flexibility has to be applied at the outermost bit of the possible range.
I know at times, during Shavasana for myself, I feel inclined to put my hands into a mudra over certain chakras. Maybe it isn’t even called Shavasana at that point, but my body sometimes falls into spontaneous chi flow and that is where my hands go.
Energetically speaking, and others may certainly differ, pointed down, you are pulling energy from the Earth. Facing upward, you are pulling energy from the Universe. When the palms are facing down, it impedes the flow of universal energy within your energy channels. This is just my opinion based on my experiences with energy and spirit.
And would that be bad? Or is that of the universe better? If so, can you tell me how? I know only the Qi Gong-theory of “that” energy (Mantak Chia-based mostly).
Also, I have no feeling of energy coming in through the palms, but going out. My palms often feel quite energized, I barely know cold hands (while I almost always have cold feet, which sucks, because I do standing postures with bare feet on a wooden floor), and when I only think of my palms, I already have a Kame Hame Ha-feeling building up. It doesn’t drain me anyhow, though, I still feel highly energized when stepping off the mat after a session, with no difference how I place the palms.
However: Thanks again for your very inspiring reply, if you find the time: Please keep em coming. :o)
Hi charliedharma,
thank you too for the suggestion, I’ll try that next time. 
I conferred with Spirit regarding your case. She says no. That you should start Shavasana in supination (palms up). Spend half the time focusing on that aspect. This will help you with discipline, conviction, and not giving up on things that seem impossible. Then the second half focus on the relaxation.
Can you describe them?
This is what I do: I am a massage therapist also, so this is an important piece of the puzzle and one I would definitely recommend to you. Before I do the stretching with him, I do deep tissue massage on his arms through his shoulders. Working out the little knots and then also doing some myofascial work. I would recommend you find someone who can do that because it is impossible to do this for yourself. Especially the myofascial work because it requires two hands.
The stretching is very basic. I simply start supinating and pronating his hand, then continuing to twist up so that I am also doing this with his forearm, eventually all the way up through the shoulder.
And would that be bad? Or is that of the universe better? If so, can you tell me how?
No, it isn’t “bad”. And universal energy isn’t “better” than earth energy. It is just the optimal way to integrate your practice.
Also, I have no feeling of energy coming in through the palms, but going out.
It is customary for healers to have energy going out of their hands. If I were you, I would take it a step further and ask your body what needs healing and let your hands wander to that location. Again, this then becomes not a true shavasana, but in my opinion, it is still helpful to practice. If you don’t want to do that as a part of your practice, I would definitely suggest you do it in a separate meditation. You will probably find your hands want to wander to your chakras.
Hi Goddess Tapping, and thank you again.
I conferred with Spirit regarding your case. She says no. That you should start Shavasana in supination (palms up). Spend half the time focusing on that aspect. This will help you with discipline, conviction, and not giving up on things that seem impossible. Then the second half focus on the relaxation.
Spirit, I assume, isn’t the nick of someone bound to flesh and blood…? And you can forward such specific questions to… subtle entities? :o
However: In a, for my standards, quite extensive session yesterday (~ 2 hrs), I did that downward-Namaste-gesture in the Tadasanas (which I do between any two standing postures). In detail:
I do the Namaste-gesture with the forearms in a straight line and having them parallel to the ground, so the hands are in a 90?-angle in relation to the forearms. Then I roll the hands away from my body and downward, while the forarms remain parallel to the ground. At about 110? the tension starts and I force the hands further down.
Great results, I recommend, when I went into Shavasana, my regular rolling-in-degree dropped from 90? to something like 30?. No kidding, I found the difference actually absurd.
This is what I do: I am a massage therapist also, so this is an important piece of the puzzle and one I would definitely recommend to you. Before I do the stretching with him, I do deep tissue massage on his arms through his shoulders. Working out the little knots and then also doing some myofascial work. I would recommend you find someone who can do that because it is impossible to do this for yourself. Especially the myofascial work because it requires two hands.
Massage… Good idea as well, I guess I won’t go anywhere to get them, but I’ll try softening the muscle via some rubbing before my next Shavasana.
The stretching is very basic. I simply start supinating and pronating his hand, then continuing to twist up so that I am also doing this with his forearm, eventually all the way up through the shoulder.
Ok, I guess that’s pretty much what I had done too. Do you do the stretching to him? Do you grab his hand and then flex it? Or do you have him doing it himself? When I use my left hand to flex the right forearm or the other way, I get to compression right away (bone against bone).
No, it isn’t “bad”. And universal energy isn’t “better” than earth energy. It is just the optimal way to integrate your practice.
Against the risk of being obnoxious: Can you tell my why? As I noted, I am not any much into this energy thing. Actually I notice, that I picked that term up from you, while I would adress it as “heat” or “warmth”, which of course is energy. But I guess you’re talking about some other form, the Qi or Kundalini?
[quote]Also, I have no feeling of energy coming in through the palms, but going out.
It is customary for healers to have energy going out of their hands. If I were you, I would take it a step further and ask your body what needs healing and let your hands wander to that location. Again, this then becomes not a true shavasana, but in my opinion, it is still helpful to practice. If you don’t want to do that as a part of your practice, I would definitely suggest you do it in a separate meditation. You will probably find your hands want to wander to your chakras. [/quote]Well, I do not even meditate at all, unless progressive relaxation can be called meditation. I’m not particularly spiritual. In Shavasana, I concentrate on one bodypart after the other and “relax” them ("" because I also “relax” what isn’t a muscle). Doing that to the whole body already takes easily up to 15-20 minutes and unless I do my session at night times, that’s all I have time for, before my family wants me back. Since we’re talking (<- I could research myself, actually), could you suggest something to start with what you call meditation? Something to integrate into that relaxation I’m doing? A link would be fine as well. Or is putting the hands over a chakra a good start already?
Hi Sunyuting, thanks for your additions:
I am very familiar with Mantak Chia. His qi gong, chi kung, or breath practice is for going from taichi to taiji. It has to do with grounding the body and understanding how to take a punch to the stomach using air pressure. If you practice yoga, I would stick to breathing taught by your instructor. Taiji is the fighting application of Taichi - its a different dynamic of breath for fighting. I also believe some of his exercises are dangerous for the body.
I only know the “microcosmic orbit” from his book “Awaken Healing Energy Through Tao”, where you’re supposed to focus on the energy-points around the body. I know “points” are there (particularly because I misunderstood the position of one of them and later noticed that by feeling that it was higher than I assumed), but I never got the cycle to work as it’s described. Did you?
And now that I think about it, I remember that in his more advanced books, at which I only glanced, he also connects the human body with stuff in space, like specfic stellar objects.
I would listen to the people on this forum if you do not have a yoga teacher, they give good advice. Just my opinion.
I listen to everybody.But, speaking in Yogic terms and as far as I understand that branch, I am a Jnani. So when I keep asking or appear over-scepitcal, it doesn’t mean I don’t listen.
testing testing
I realize this thread as evolved from it’s origin. However I’ll weigh in on the arms, position, purpose in Savasana even though that may no longer be an issue.
First, it is quite common for students, especially beginning students, sedentary students, or those who live physically out of balance (and by this I mean 10 hours hunched over a keyboard etc.) for the palms to not completely face the ceiling.
For this reason it is helpful to have a teacher who can direct the student but in terms of an adjustment in the pose and in terms of their work in asana practice. It is the very thing a well trained teacher should be doing with a student who’s made a commitment to study. A casual student may not cultivate as deep a relationship, just as a teacher with less or inadequate training may not.
And, while doing these two things - having the pose adjusted and having a directed asana practice - it is also imperative to not get too preoccupied with the details. Exploration, yes. Distraction, no.
Hi InnerAthlete, I’m under the impression something is bothering you. If so, please speak your mind openly, most posters in this thread are new to the board. Are we violating rules?
Most of what you say has already been pointed out in the thread, so I leave that out.
it is also imperative to not get too preoccupied with the details. Exploration, yes. Distraction, no.
What makes you think someone is or might be preoccupied with something? Any detail, as you agree, should be explored. Minor changes can make huge differences.
Hi Sunyuting,
I have given up replying to messages between the lines ages ago. What you say: I mostly agree. You seem to assume I have a different point of view: Which one would that be? I won’t guess.
@Moderators:
I’m not ignorant to the basic rule “1 subject per thread” that’s valid in some boards, but usually when posts go off-topic and another discussion begins, moderators will click some buttons to extract such posts to a new thread. So I will continue discussing the Qi Gong thing here instead of increasing confusion by starting a new thread in the middle of it. If that’s not ok, please let me know.
…
Hi Sunyuting:
Its all good.
Awesome.
I forgot to ask you something. If you are trying to spin your energy, do you put your tounge on the roof of your mouth? I do, it is supposed to make a connection.
Well, I did; it’s been a while since I tried wholeheartedly, like my previous Yoga-practice, at least a decade ago.
I also roll my all my points while I circle my energy. Sometimes I will walk a circle and hold out one hand toward the center. Shoot the energy from my palm down to the earth to let it hold up my hand. Switch directions and do the other hand. This comes naturally for me because of years of practice. After doing classes for many years, things just started to evolve. I feel the energy comes from opening the joints by stretching and holding yoga poses. The interesting thing is that now I feel others energy. It helps guide me where to be, and where not to be.
That is all unfamiliar to me. All I had (and have) is a strong feeling coming from the points when I focused on them. The intensity differs from time to time, but it never changed and there was never a flow of energy between any two points, that I was aware of.
All I have are different feelings with the different points. For example the Dan-Tien, it’s like the feeling one has in their belly when looking forward to something. And in the heart-point, it’s related to love, on the top of the head, it’s somewhat divine and large, between the eyes, trancecendence, and so on. I think that’s because there are endocrine glands that discharge hormones (see the image on the page “Endocrine glands” @Wikipedia) or nerve-clusters, that fire their impulses. So according to the theory, I guess I have no effects in the subtle body, only in the physical one.
I know one flow, though, are we all adults…? When I’m having an orgasm and imagine to pull the semen up the spine, there is something going on. I don’t get terribly far, at best close below the level of the heart (but it’s a quite excellent sensation :-D).
This (no flow) might be because all the subtle channels are blocked, I had been living quite a wild life, particularly at that time, sex, drugs, rock 'n roll; I spare you the details, if you’re guessing, you’ll probably be quite right. I settled down when I met my wife - the old story. Now I’m doing Yoga every day, a few weeks ago I gave up meat and fish and now I’m starting to get seriously interested in meditation. Maybe the time is right; Asanas for example: I found them boring ealier (did Kung Fu at the time) and today I love em.
Well.
There are some questions I have regarding these energies and since you’re the only one I ever met who claims to have the cylcle flowing, you might be able to provide some insights: Is the Kundalini-energy of Yoga the same as Qi? I once read, that the orbit would be a further development of the Kundalini-practice, where one wants to have the energy rising from Muladhara Chakra to the top of the head. To just have it rising, so it said, would be dangerous and could cause all sorts of problems, including insanity and death. The orbit would be like a pressure relief valve so the energy cannot pile up. Would you say that’s the case? It makes sense and therefore seems to be a better approach.
But: The Kundalini-theory says, that you’re “there” once the energy has risen to Sahasrara Chakra, so the orbit could as well be a whole different thing, maybe something like the Nadis? Prana equals Qi unequals Kundalini-power? One’s also supposed to start the orbit from the Dan-Tien in the belly, that also differs from the Kundalini-theory.
@ Quetzalcoatl
I am rarely, if ever, bothered by something on the yoga forum here. And those who know me well would laugh at any assertion that if something were bothering me I’d need to be prompted to speak my mind. But thank you for asking. I appreciate your concern.
I contrasted two concepts so that the entire group reading this thread - and the others - may have benefit and clarity.
Hi InnerAthlete:
@ Quetzalcoatl
I am rarely, if ever, bothered by something on the yoga forum here. And those who know me well would laugh at any assertion that if something were bothering me I’d need to be prompted to speak my mind. But thank you for asking. I appreciate your concern.
Most excellent; I’m glad we’re good.
I think you just edited this in or I missed it:
I contrasted two concepts so that the entire group reading this thread - and the others - may have benefit and clarity.
What concepts are these?
Hi Sunyuting.
In my opinion, the sex energy is different than a yoga or meditation energy. If you have blockages, practice and stretch more.
Yes, will do.
Is Kundalini energy the same as Qi? Does it matter?
To me it does, because if it is, I can bring all I know about Qi Gong to Yoga.
What would you do with it if it was?
Treat the theories as two forms of the same thing.
What would you do with them if they were separate?
Treat them accordingly.
Also, could you show me the documented reports of people dying from kundalini or Qi.
No, I could not even show you what I had read about it. But I had read about problems with energies in several places. Are there none?
If you were my student I would tell you that you can spin your energy and you do not have blockages. I might even make fun of you for practicing qi gong while having sex. Just kidding. Ok, not really, I would have to make fun of you. I cant help it.
Be my guest.
I just feel they are different and I am not a sex therapist.
Dude, that was just a sidenote and I don’t need therapy.
As far as the orbit thing goes, do you understand your center. Forget Dan tien for a second, do you know your center? If you are standing straight up and you started to spin like a fan, your center is there. Walk in a orbit and spin like the earth. Go one way and then go the other. Its all there.
I can’t even follow you. Understand my center how? “Spin like the earth” how? What way, what other? What is “it all”?
I dont really want to speak on kundalini energy because my opinion seems to be unorthodox. I would tell you not to worry about dan tien or any of the points. Find your center and think of it like a your inner super nova. Be creative with your energy. You have no blockages and Rock and Roll is a gift.
But drugs aren’t and you seem to be quite amused about the sex-thingy. Do you think that any lifestyle works with practices we’re talking about? I must doubt that, or else Asanas, diet, ethical laws would make no sense and just waste tons of time.
You know your energy. You know yourself. So remember, if you really love to practice. Go for it. But relax, you dont have to practice qi gond while having sex. That is so funny.
Yeah, I’m the n00b, all right. Please enlighten me: What’s so funny about it? Sexual energy has nothing to do with Qi/Kundalini? What is it then? It’s own stuff?
I googled “kundalini insanity death” (without “”) and found this statement for example:
It is said that kundalini opens new pathways in the nervous system; the pain associated with this apparently is due to the nervous system’s inability to immediately copy with the energy. Yogis assert that the body must be properly attuned for kundalini through yoga, and that a premature or explosive awakening can cause insanity or death.
I can link now! Buy /|46R4 online!!!1! :lol:
Found an interesting page about Kundalini and Qi, maybe others are interested too:
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html
I, though, must go now.
Hi Sunyuting.
The funny thing is you.
But what you find so amusing has not terribly much to do with me:
You must want sexy energy.
No. I noted the sexy thing when I was telling you, that no energy ever flew from a point A to a point B inside my body. The only exception occurs when I pull the semen up the spine, which, by the way, is not the daily practice you seem to imagine and I never did it in any other spirit than playing around. If you don’t know what I mean, try it and you’ll see (it also works with masturbation).
I dont know what you want me to tell you.
In context of the funny thing it is: Does this effect have anything to do with Kundalini Yoga or Qi Gong? My other questions are equally clear, no?
To me yoga is qi gong.
Thanks for your answer.
Different cultures may have different physical exercises, but its still practice with breath. Energy is in the creative mind. If you feel it is hurting you, stop doing it. For me, this is not the case. People assert many things, but dying from kundalini would be a sad way to go. If you feel it can kill you, why would you want to practice that? Do you like to play with rattlesnakes? I bet a rattlesnake bite would really open the nervous system pathways. No thanks.
Are there risks or are there none? If there are, it doesn’t mean one may not work with it. Cars are risky, even a pencil can get you killed.
Drugs are a gift. Ask any cancer survivor.
But Sunyuting: I was referring to the abuse of drugs like weed, booze and meaner stuff in a lifestyle that will make spiritual practices very difficult at best, and probably impossible. If it was not obvious, I’m sorry. Drugs aren’t a gift to those who abuse them, they destroy lifes by the billion.
All practices can be done with or without lifestyle, ethics, and laws. Its up to the person. We are all human. What is right for me, may not be right for you. But having ethics and good eating habits help. Do you have ethical problems?
Sure, don’t you? I thought everybody but the Buddhas do. And I was quite a bad boy “back then” and still haven’t managed to become a saint. For example did I make some questionable joke yesterday and it got me in trouble, so I must reflect my words and get distracted from more valuable things. Sucks. Doing unquestionably good things don’t do that, for example did I recently tell an old friend enthusiastically about my Asana-practice and yesterday he told me, he and his girl started their own. That’s great and makes me feel good and confident about myself and the practice.
And these are only minor things. It makes a huge difference wether one behaves candy or trashy. The trash will pull you away from what you want to yoke with, the candy will push you towards it.
The earth follows an orbit. Walk a circle, pick a diameter, and walk. As you walk, learn to spin on the circle either direction you want (the greatness is in the reversal). Just as the earth would rotate spinning on its axis. But you need to be aware of your center - the center of your body. Its all there - everything you need to get the answers you want. You can find the energy there.
Will try.
Noob? - I will have to cross reference
What do you want to do with sexual energy? You know you can use that energy to have kids right?
What??? I thought they’re delivered by those huge birds…
It seems that causes life, not insanity or death.
Sure. But I was talking about insanity and death in context of piling up Kundalini energy in the head, so why do you mix that up. A comment on the valve thing the orbit had been described in that text I read would be much more appreciated.
What do you want to do with breath energy? Will breathing kill you?
Depends on what you breath, doesn’t it.
What is your purpose for practice?
Health.
And what’s yours?
Hi Sunyuting,
I just think your questions are funny because, like I said, I feel the energies are different. I just feel the sexual energy practice if overrated. What I am trying to tell you is that, sexual energy is not my focus. And yes, I know what you mean. The Shaolin guys would drag rocks with their genitals, not something I care to do. My point is that you should find your purpose for dealing with sexual energy. Im good there but its not my focus.
as I said, I did that semen-up-the-spine for the fun of it, the bare feeling. And if you don’t know wether or how that energy is related to the Kundalini or the Qi: Just say “I don’t know”. It’s no shame.
Life is a learning process. If someone gets addicted to drugs, its the beginning of a learning process. And yes, sometimes the outcomes are not nice.
A valid viewpoint, but if my son got into drugs, I’d surely not handle it that way.
We all have problems and I love jokes, they make you think. If someone gets mad, oh well. Dont be afraid to reflect and learn, its good for you. And sometimes the trasy puts you right where you need to be, to give back. Candy is bad for your teeth, it rots them.
Look: When I’m doing something good, there is no need to reflect upon it. I can feel good, and that’s it. The good feeling also helps with anything I do, it relaxes me, opens my heart or whatever.
When I do something that bothers someone, I have to, unless I’m ignorant as a brick, question myself. I do not fear that, it’s simply distracting and unless the thing I did to bother that someone was highly important to me (which some joke isn’t), I “hurt” myself.
Yoga is the calming of the processes of the mind. Good things calm the mind, bad things trouble it. To have no trouble in the mind: Follow the ethical commandments of Yama and Niyama.
Very simple.
If you have a pile up of energy in the head, you may be storing creative energy. It may just want to be set free. You could also have a back problem. There can be many reasons for that. Im not a doctor.
Dude… lol
The value of orbit for me? The circle is in everthing. Which exact part of the text are you refering? I have been circle walking for years, its my meditation.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I always quote what I refer to.
I practice because I like to. Its beyond purpose.
To do something because one likes it is the most basic purpose. I eat candy because I like them, I have sex because I like it, etc. If you were beyond purpose, you would not have any “because” anymore. You’d be doing Wei Wu Wei, your practice would be as natural as breathing.
Sunyuting: Unless you surprise me, this was my final reply, our debate is going nowhere. Let’s do more Yoga instead. 
I have the same question as Q and after reading this thread I didn’t find the answer: that is what is exactly the reason for holding palms up. I also have tendency to hold them down. I feel then nice feeling of being connected with Earth, sort of lying on warm sphere. When I turn them up I don’t feel anything particular. Its just a feeling and I can drop it but it would be nice to know there is a particular reason - how holding palms up is important in context of the development.