Headstand question again

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi everyone,

i’m a relative beginner and have been slowing getting into practicing headstand for a few months. I read some useful discussion here (and in class) about going into a half headstand first by drawing bent knee to chest one after another.

Somehow I got stuck after drawing the first knee in, and the other leg stay glued to the floor. My teacher taught me to lift the buttock up, then tilt to the back to lift the other leg up. This action did lift my second leg but at the same time made me flip backward.

How do you keep the torso up at this point when both legs are hugged into the chest? I was told to use my core but i have no idea which exact part of it I should be using and how to balance the upper body in the inverted position.

Any advice? Thanks a lot.

#2

Try setting your mat by a wall
1.Measure one leg length away from the wall.
2.Set yourself up so that your head is one leg length from the wall…forearms on floor,elbows shoulder width,fingers interlaced behind head…come up on to your toes keeping shoulders away from ears.
3.Your feet should be touching the wall…you facing the wall…slowly walk your feet up the wall until legs are 90’…the same height as your butt…legs straight.
4.Slowly take one foot off the wall bringing knee to chest…
5.Then if your are correctly upright and balanced you should be able to bring the other knee in easily…if you feel you need to push/kick/fling…then you are not correctly upright/balanced.

Put some cushions on the floor behind you just incase…have someone look at you and check that you are upright and that your head/neck is in the correct position…take it slow.

#3

thanks yogacambodia, for your advice !

but where i got stuck was the “correctly upright/balanced” part. is there any specific group of muscle or body part you use to maintain that balance at the exact moment when both legs are off the wall/floor? what does it feel in your core /butt/legs at that position?

was i correct to tilt my hip back to draw the legs in? if so, how do i counteract that action to stay balanced?

sorry i have so many questions :confused:

#4

You head, neck and torso should be exactly the same shape as when you are standing/sitting…just the other way up!!!

Once you are in the correct position it does not need alot of strength to maintain…you use the same postural muscles as you do for standing.sitting upright.

The hips should be directly above the shoulders…so without seeing what you are doing I cannot say which way you need to tilt/move…

It is best to have a teacher look at you side on…and tell you when you are correctly aligned then you will feel it…you can have the head,neck,torso in the correct position with feet still on the wall.

#5

glpom,

You are not alone with having problems in headstand. Many students lack the upper body and ab strength needed. Fear is also a limiting factor.

I’ve not heard to tilt hips back to draw legs in. Hips should be in neutral. Not too much tilt either way. Your alignment in Tadasana should be your guide. If you have excess lumbar curve or no curve at all, then yes, initially you will need to tilt one way or the other to maintain neutral spine. Engage ab muscles, drawing them in and up and not allowing the sitting bones to collapse toward the floor.

So, my ? is what is your alignment like in Tadasana? This is step one.

Strong, active abs and upper body strength are both needed to bring knees up, straightening them -together.

#6

thanks for all the helpful tips.

i understand from reading books and the forum discussions how the “form” is supposed to be i.e. seeing from an observer’s eyes, but it’s very hard to “feel” whether i’m doing everything correct when i’m upside down myself trying to get into it.

while in classes, the teachers can spend at most one minute on me before moving on to other students, and usually what they did was just help me lift up somehow (and i didn’t even know how they did it!)

so i was hoping to get some pointers only to break through this lifting action, and then i’m sure there are still lots of other things waiting to be discovered along the way before achieving the final pose …of course while practicing patience and perseverance …namaste!

#7

This is a second post for a month about the headstand. may I ask you guys… what is you need for a headstand? this is very dangerous pose…

#8

dangerous poses should be avoided. please do not get out of bed in the morning. there is danger out there. do not enter any dangerous poses… in fact, don’t move at all… ???

Anyone remotely adept at headstand knows how off the mark dismissing it like that is… unless you teach and just admit it’s because of your insurance… (sorry CityMonk though I really loved the last post I read of yours in a diff thread :slight_smile: )

glpom - you’re over thinking it. personally if I were you and asking myself the same question, I’d advise myself to forget about it for at least 3 months… which means if I so much as thought about anythign about headstand, I would refocus & remember the goal of remaining OUT of it (in thought and in deed) for at least three months.

After that time, whatever time is right for you really… come toward sirsasana as a complete beginner, let it guide you. Let it inform your meditations. Let these other posts here inform you. You have the answer! Let the posture inform you. It may inform you to do other postures instead! It may inform you that once your spine is up and legs are straight, that’s far enough! Or that from there you need only bring your knees to your chest while torso & hips are solid as stone… but let it inform you. I’m sure if you get still & quiet enough in a prayerful attitude about this, if you really want to achieve it, then you will. Let it take 1 or 2 more years, there is really no rush or reason for attachment. :slight_smile:

Hopefully this was a little bit helpful. Either way I empathize with your question.

Cheers :slight_smile:

#9

[QUOTE=glpom;66255]was i correct to tilt my hip back to draw the legs in? if so, how do i counteract that action to stay balanced?[/QUOTE]

glpom,

No.

The point of the half-headstand is to build the necessary strength and coordination to do the headstand safely by “holding” the knees at the chest, with no tilting back of the hips and lumbar spine, so there is NO weight on your head: it’s all on your arms with only a touch of the top of the head on the floor. That’s where you want to be. That’s where you want to hold it. You want your legs to hang from the hips, not working as cantilevers to balance.

What you must do for the time being, is alternate from one knee in to the other and back, and in that way, you will gradually build the strength. The point is not to stack your weight. Also, after raising your hips up and you’re up on your toes, exhale completely and then inhale as you draw one knee in. Exhale, putting that toe back down and inhale again as you draw the second knee in. Don’t rush. Also, dolphin push-ups and leg lifts are necessary to build that strength.

When you master half-headstand, you will find the full headstand is easier, but you should be strong enough to press your full weight off the floor and touch your head with as much control, as delicately as you touch the tip of your finger to a table top, mouse pad, a baby’s nose, etc.

Lastly, search my previous posts on headstand for more information.

peace, good luck, don’t hurt yourself,
siva

#10

glpom,
absolutely agree with yogasiam: you are over-thinking it. Also, the half-headstand I personally found very difficult to master. Just try to practice sirasana on the wall as often as possible and don’t be afraid to fall down. While practicing on the wall you’ll gain your upper body strength and in a short time come up naturally in headstand without wall. From my experience.

#11

yogasiam & toksen,

Yes, you are right… I think over-thinking is indeed my problem, both on and off the mat! i work as a Business Analyst so that’s probably why my brain was set into this default analysis mode :slight_smile:

Also, i noticed there’s always this ego element in me trying hard to master difficult poses, especially in yoga classes where most people around me seem to be able to do it. i know it’s a big NO to be led by ego in practice, and have to remind myself to slow down.

and siva,

I read your suggestions in previous threads and they are very informative. I suppose the key thing is probably “more practice” and let the pose come to me instead of chasing after it.

#12

[QUOTE=glpom;66287] I suppose the key thing is probably “more practice” and let the pose come to me instead of chasing after it.[/QUOTE]

Glpon,

Yes. Take your time, and never mind the wall.

You don’t want any more weight going into your spine than your head weighs, if that makes sense: about 20 lbs and no more.

Think of it like this: if you were to do a headstand on top of a piece of notebook paper, you should be able to have someone pull it out with tearing it. Ok? Strength first.

peace,
siva

#13

[QUOTE=yogasiam;66274]dangerous poses should be avoided. please do not get out of bed in the morning. there is danger out there. do not enter any dangerous poses… in fact, don’t move at all… ???
[/QUOTE]

let me rephrase… movement is life and life is movement. We are all masters in Getting out of the bed every day:) but not that many people are inherently adept at standing on their heads … I would always ask myself why do I want to get out of the bad this morning, why do I want to do a headstand, or a split, 7 hours of yoga a day…I think WHY is a wery important question to ask before doing something…

#14

I was a bit obtuse in my reply :slight_smile:

I accept your rephrasal and offer that my wife and other’s I’ve known were never “inherently adept at standing on their heads” It took her over 2 months of daily practice and she chose to practice due to her commitment to something she thought would be of value. Now she moves through a 2 minute headstand in her sequence daily and can focus on finer aspects of it like the breathing and awareness aspects.

I know a woman who fell over backward every day for 2 weeks during the 5 minutes allotted for headstand in a teacher training. No injuries and I think after 2 weeks I no longer heard the trance inducing monotony of her body hitting the floor multiple times a session. :slight_smile:

There is a reason to challenge yourself with things you’re not “inherently adept” at.
WHY not challenge yourself?

IF it’s not for you then it’s NOT FOR YOU. But to say “WHY are you guys doing this - it’s dangerous” shows only your own reservations… not that it’s actually dangerous.

I respect your comments, but think you’re just digging a whole down this track.

Why?

#15

Yogasiam, it is a good point, and yes, your are right: one has to face challenge in order to progress. But some challages might be detrimental for the person. I’m very happy that people you know are in good health and they have a good experience with sirsasana.

I did not want to mention the details… but the headstand is on of the poses that is ACTUALLY dangerous. In my practice I’ve seen people wrecking their neck in this pose…then they coming to yoga therapy classes trying to fix the slipped disk.:frowning: WHY would one want to damage the very thin cervical disk just because he WANTS to do a handstand and look cool? I’m not saying that somebody in this thread want to do a headstand because of ego demands. Unfortunately, some people actually want to do challenging poses because they want to PROOF to themselves or to someone else… only because of this the question “WHY” might be helpful… here are some possible answers to the “WHY I want to do particular this pose”:

  • i want to improve my health by doing this pose
  • i want to integrate a new pose in my practice cause I bored with what I have
  • i want to impress my girlfriend or my yoga teacher…etc…

Also make sense to ask:

  • are there some less aggressive but equally beneficial poses I can do safely?

Let me repeat again, I’m not an opponent of headstand,:slight_smile: but I must be done carefully, with high level of mindfulness, after few years of practice, preferable under the guidance of the teacher…student must be in good shape (you wont put in the headstnad 300lbs person even he want to CHALLENGE himself really bad!!:)) etc…[U]Cervical disks are very fragile[/U]…

Again…maybe because of yoga therapy background i prefer my students be safe.

#16

ah yes, well said. I agree with you City Monk :slight_smile: It’s not for everyone and that is perfectly good & natural.