I think you’re probably right about that.
It doesn’t take away from the teachings/sadhana, but it was and is a common thing in India from ancient times to make up and/or embellish things.
We can never know for sure.
I think you’re probably right about that.
Both possesed verifiable siddhis in abundance.
And how exactly were these siddhis verified : )
Certainly not by any modern scientific standards under controlled conditions.
Have you heard of the James Randi Foundation?
It is a 1 million dollar challenge to anyone claiming to have supernatural powers/abilities.
Not surprisingly, not 1 person has ever claimed the prize.
Stories, second-hand, photos, even YT videos are nice, but somehow not one person in the world, has ever managed to claim the prize.
Now sure, we can say that some simply would not be interested.
But I have a hard time believing that not one person, even if they gave the winnings to charity, even if they used it as a platform to motivate people to spiritual pursuit, even just to stick it to all the skeptics like Randi, has ever stepped forward and succeeded (many have tried by the way)
Anyway, something to ponder perhaps, when we talk casually about [I]verifiable[/I] siddhis and the like.
[QUOTE=RSS;82824]I’m new to this forum. Actually, the only reason I signed up was to try and contact omshanti. I and some of my kriya friends have been to 4 or 5 of the so-called “gurus” listed (including trips to India), and we are still in search-mode.
If you are still out there, please send me a private message or let me know how to contact you. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
And why do you feel you were all still in search mode after being to these Gurus? Was it something glaring for you, or a more subtle feeling or…?
I’m asking because I’m also drawn to the Kriya Yoga system, and wonder if there are any authentic, accessible, on-the-level, verifiably linked to lineage, Kriya Gurus living today?
[I]It is simply inconceivable that they could be capable of anything like murder, rape, theft, lusting etc, because at the level of thought they have eradicated all such tendencies.[/I]
I would have to agree. Mind you we have many accounts past and present of so-called Siddhas/Yogis/Sages etc acting in strange, even alarming ways to conventional understanding. Everything from throwing rocks at devotees lining up for darshan, to living on a garbage heap and appearing to be mad, to you name it. As far as things like murder, rape, I would agree. But it may not be as black or white for other things. For example, what appears as theft could be the spontaneous action of a Sage, taking from a thief/murderer for example, to pay back a loan a devotee has taken in poor judgement from a loan shark who is going to break their legs, all the while mitigating their karmas in various ways…Anyway you get the idea. It might be nonsense, but there could be more than meets the eyes to the perceived actions of a Sage.
Greetings my friends,
Here is update contact information:
phone: (213) 884-6470
With Blessings and Love,
Greetings my friends,
Here is updated contact information:
phone: (323) 484-6338
God is the Guru,
With Blessings and Love,
Adi Shankara murdered, and is responsible for, the murder of 100’s (if not thousands) of Dravidians, Jains, Buddhists and any non-believers in the “Vedas” — We have been lied to about the true history of kriya — It’s important for you to learn the truth yourself if you are so inclined (have the capacity, will, etc.)
PY dropped dead from a heart attack in the middle of a speech — he did not consciously exit his body — this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the lies and false narratives within the circles of Yoga.
Brahmanism, Aryanism, “Hindu-ism” and even “Hatha Yoga” is to blame for many evils.
SEEK THE TRUTH. YOUR HEART KNOWS IT.
Peace and love to all,
Ahimsa to all,
Hatha yoga etc is not to blame for any evils.
Although I cannot say the practice itself is complete. Refinement can often be had.
Yet still, it is not the sword which kills, it is he that holds the sword.
If truthful words come from a lier, are they true or false?
I do not care about the vedas.
I am simply stating.
As for leaving his body.
Hahaha. sounds like he died if you ask me.
Yet in that case, any ascetic claiming to be celibate is as such because he does not have control over the flow of life in his body. Celibacy being a lay man’s practice.
ascetic practice and philosophy have always been two sides of the same coin.
The difference is, philosophers fight eachother over who’s right.
Where in ascetism, it is more a question of what works.
Yet, this is just a whimsical opinion.
You most likely know more on the subject than I.
I just saw this quote and in the spirit of humility considered it relevant in this thread. If my ego is soft, I see the genuine help through the impact of this quote. If my ego is hard, I am resistant to this quote and may see it as offensive.
"IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE ANSWERS YOU GET HERE, DO NOT STAY HERE COMPLAINING LIKE AN ANGRY IDIOT! INSTEAD, GO TO SOME SOURCE THAT WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.
NO ONE LEARNS THROUGH SEEKING AGREEMENT WITH THEIR BELIEFS OR DISBELIEFS."
There is a film called Kumar?. I am bringing up this film to differentiate what his up coming disciples experienced from what someone may experience from a genuine satguru.
The doubting mind will be able to a poke a doubt hole into anything. At best it will only be temporarily convinced. I would rather not focus on such a futile struggling faculty of judgment. Don’t you see how much is struggles? There are better faculties to use.
Why focus on the frauds? I’d rather focus on the satguru.
"guru"-through tremendous spiritual gravity, the one who brings you from darkness to light
A satguru is vastly much more advanced than you and I are capable of imagining. By the virtue of being helped by an advanced teacher you intuitively see the genuine teacher as a genuine teacher. It is hard to put into words, but you just know. You see it. Your mind/consciousness and life are overflowing with the satguru. For many reasons other than what I am about to list, you see that the guru is genuine through deepening of sadhana, transformation, initiations, blessings/boosts/empowerments, transmissions, shaktipat, pranapat, shivapat, & higher contact/experiences. Your individual efforts that you imagine do not have to do with the satguru, their help, and their practice are much more effective too.
It is not some complex riddle to solve whether you are in the presence of a fake or real satguru.
That dilemma is such a trap.
At first it may be subtle or not, it may require patience and a non greedy heart. The kundalini purifies you. It is not just there to satisfy your occult greed.
You may not be conscious enough to see the help you are being given.
But then the satguru’s help is unlike anything you’ve ever experiences by those that are not satgurus.
It is not compared to a good reiki session, you helping yourself, placebo, or this or that.
You experience the kundalini. You experience the satguru. You experience a unity with ------.
After a reasonable amount of patience, you will know whether he/she is a satguru or not.
It is not hard to distinguish the immense spiritual gravity and help you receive from the false.
Do not be mislead into thinking it is. A satguru is immensely more advanced than a fake teacher. It is not a thin line.
But again a satguru is not there to satisfy your occult greed and to give into your every demand.
A satguru is there to liberate you.
So you may not be advanced enough to even appreciate the help of a satguru.
A satguru is christlike but you must make effort too. You must do the kriya. You must be silence. You must be as -------.
There is self that is karma free, but we liberate ourselves through very good karma. This is karma yoga.
I am not a conduit of clarity, but I did my temporary best to respond to the hijackers of the holy kriya yoga.
If you’ve read even a little on Kriya Yoga, any seeker would know that Kriya Yoga is the same yoga that was taught to Arjuna by Krishna hence it is ancient. Maybe it was called something else back then, like they say that Kriya Yoga is a part of Raja Yoga. You want reference, here it is -"The Kriya Yoga technique, taught by Krishna to Arjuna and referred to in Gita chapters IV:29 and V:27–28, is the supreme spiritual science of yoga meditation."
Moreover, In 1951, Yogananda told Durga Mata he was Arjuna in a previous reincarnation and that Rajarshi Janakananda was Nakula, one of the twin Pandava brothers. Mahavtar Babaji is said to be a Krishna Avatar hence we also refer to him sometimes as ‘Babaji Krishna’. Its only logical that Krishna and Arjuna reincarnated again in modern age to bless the devotees by spreading kriya yoga.
Does anyone know what’s the best way of learning Kriya Yoga (without a guru)?
I have been to gurus and organizations, and didn’t have quite a good experience…
This is a response to an email I received from “K. Dubash” - I surprisingly receive these types of inquiries often so I am posting the response here for all to see, in an effort to save time/energy in the future.
You make so many statements about other Kriya teachers, proclaiming them false or frauds.
You presume to know Yogananda ji on a personal level, and presume to know why he did what he did. I suspect this is something you read somewhere. No one really knows how and why he altered some of the techniques, or why SRF is doing what they are doing.
I don’t think I proclaimed to know PY on a “personal” level. It’s quite clear that he probably altered the techniques in an effort to make them more digestible for Americans/Westerners.
(Perhaps it’s the American penchant for efficiency and profit).
I think PY had good intentions when he altered the Kriyas.
But one thing is certain. Yoganandaji was a great soul, and, like it or not, has inspired millions, which he continues to do to this day. Judging him is a result of sheer arrogance.
Commenting on PY’s “soul” is a purely subjective endeavor. I as a human being have the right to judge anything I so choose. Proclaiming that judgement is “sheer arrogance” is, again, subjective.
You speak of Govind Marshall and denounce his teachings as ‘false kriyas’. I am assuming you have gone through his initiation and techniques.
He has never claimed his teachings are that from Lahiri Mahasaya. Can I assume you never found his techniques helpful?
Even worse, he claims his teachings are from “Babaji” and has proclaimed to have numerous delusional and/or hallucinatory episodes wherein he believed he was contacting LM’s guru.
And yet I know so many mature and thinking people who swear by his methods.
This is an appeal to popularity, and as such is an obvious fallacy.
But one cannot deny one thing. Govind Marshall is a man whose aim is one and one only. To spread the name of Babaji.
“Spreading the name of Babaji” has nothing to do with being a kriya yogi and is more similar to the Christian idea of ministry (i.e. "Spreading the Gospel, name of Jesus, etc.).
Are you aware of his life, and how and where he spent a major portion of his youth? He has no organisation, just a bunch of acharyas who go around teaching his methods. But you seem convinced he is a fraud. Arrogance again?
Yes, the life story is readily available online.
Were you present when he was accused of ‘sexual advances’? Or did you hear this directly from the victim? (Regarding Shibendu Lahiri)
I heard directly from the victim. In addition, it became common knowledge due to his repeated offenses of multiple women.
Or did you read about it somewhere? Or did you hear about this from someone who heard about this from someone a hundred times removed? Yet you choose to mention this heresy in a note you write on the net, which will be seen and, tragically, believed and repeated by millions.
People are free to believe whatever they want. I am allowed to express my criticisms in a public forum. This is freedom.
You say he seems to be in a virtual trance most of the time, that he doesn’t look you in the eye, that he has copied Jiddu Krishnamurthy’s philosophy.
Yet I have not found any one these in all my interactions with him. He looks me straight in the eye when talking, although it is correct to say that he often speaks with his eyes closed, which to my way of thinking suggests he is talking from the heart.
I didn’t mean to imply he never gives eye contact. I was implying that he doesn’t pay proper attention to whom he is speaking. He talks “at” people, not “to” people. As a consequence of this behavior, Shibendu often reacts to things he “thinks” are happening but in actuality he is just tripping.
Krishnamurthy’s philosophy and what Shibendu says may be somewhat similar. But isn’t that the case of all these teachers ? Shibendu talks of no-mind, stillness, the rejection of all ‘contructs of the mind’. And yet this is exactly what all the books on the theory of Kriya Yoga states, again and again.
Shibendu’s father himself voiced reservations about his son’s involvement with Krishnamurti and Osho philosophy. This may have contributed to the reason his father chose Ashoke Chatterji to write LM’s biography instead of his own “dynastic” son.
You appear to be on some kind of crusade of exposing false teachers and cults. A noble undertaking. False and money making rackets have existed in all spheres of life, so why should religion and spirituality be any exception?
I don’t consider it a “crusade” because “it” is simply a forum post, made years ago at this point. I do not even think about it. Only when I am emailed do I remember it.
But as a practitioner of Kriya Yoga (I am making that assumption) you need to ask yourself why you are doing this? Is it a genuine need to help your fellow man?
Or is it a desire to see your name in print, or for people to look up to you?
My name is definitely not in print and no one looks up to me, so these concerns are irrelevant to the situation.
You need to genuinely determine that is not some ego thing, to build, reinforce and strengthen the ego, something which a Kriyaban sets out to destroy in the first place.
Thank you for your concern. Albeit misguided, I think your intentions are positive. All of those preliminary considerations were validated before I made the original post.
I am always suspicious of those that make claims that ‘mine is the true God, yours is false’. ‘Other teachers are false, beware!!’ True Kriya practitioners perform their practise quietly without indulging in a self professed aggrandisement. In any case most of what canards they spread about others is a bunch of heresay and stuff they have read, also heresay. I would urge seekers to trust their instincts rather than listen to opinionated people. Seek out your teachers and if you feel what he or she is saying resonates with your inner being, take it further. Whether you are aware of it or not, your inner guru is guiding you. Learn to listen to that, and that only.
I am always suspicious of those that make claims that ‘mine is the true God, yours is false’. ‘Other teachers are false, beware!!’ True Kriya practitioners perform their practise quietly without indulging in a self professed aggrandisement.
No one is doing that here. Your accusations remain baseless.
In any case most of what canards they spread about others is a bunch of heresay and stuff they have read, also heresay.
No, Sir, actually nothing of hearsay is being valued as evidence. I thought you sent me an email last night telling me you’ve said all you have to say? Then 24 hours later, you reappear with more complaints.
I would urge seekers to trust their instincts rather than listen to opinionated people.
Again, we already went over this. No one is trying to sway the opinion of anyone here. It is merely for the safety of beloved Kriyabans. Too many seekers have bee used and abused. I don’t care if you think this is all “opinion” as long as it prevents more victims of abuse. I have received private communication confirming that this thread has prevented abuse that would have otherwise occurred. We are preventing the abuse of innocent human beings here. This is not some ego trip, as you so foolishly assume. Not every act of “I” is an act of ego. It’s very easy to do much good in the world without ego. Again, this is your assumption, that we somehow have a selfish agenda. Shame on you for thinking that. It is a reflection of your own ego that you would even think of such a silly thing!
Seek out your teachers and if you feel what he or she is saying resonates with your inner being, take it further. Whether you are aware of it or not, your inner guru is guiding you. Learn to listen to that, and that only.
No one has said otherwise. Critical thinking has come a long way in the last 200 years, you might want to try it out, or at least study other forms of thought. I don’t know, but it seems like you might be stuck in the past. Using archaic systems, words, values, etc. point to this possibility.
Hopefully your desire to contact me and post on this thread has been satisfied. Good luck on your path brother, now please be on your way. If for some reason you still have an active issue, please be specific in your complaint as to what, exactly, you are upset about.
Hi .i did Babajis Kriya Yoga course 1 and 2, this is done by Marshal Govindan from quebec canada.Are you referring to 5he same org. ? As being fake?
Well he does teach the Kriya given to him by his guru.who got it from Babaji
There are many Babajis. They all claim they are LM’s Babaji. Of course they are deluded individuals. Unfortunately mentally ill people are attracted to the assumed allure/mysticism of yoga and claim all sorts of ridiculous things. To take instruction from these people is a mistake and harmful. If you have found yourself in this situation you can simply disassociate and free yourself. If you desire to be in the illusion of comfort then of course you are stuck with them.
The Babaji that taught LM, the only Babaji that matters to Kriyabans, was probably a gentleman known as Hariakhan Babaji. Not the the 1970’s impostor, but the original. Hariakhan Babaji was alive during LM’s liftetime. For more information regarding this subject, see the book referenced below.
This will be my last post on this website. Freedom and peace can be found abundantly. Don’t settle for nonsense. Good luck and peace to all.