Hijackers of the Holy KRIYA YOGA

Spirituality
#61

Panoramix seems to have grasped the concept that Surya and Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā can’t seem to really understand.

The history of ancient India is debated by scholars, with many different view points. You are obviously free to believe or not believe whatever you want. The fact that Surya demands details from a history that has never been recorded is foolish. He thinks there is some universally-accepted history of the world. He also clearly believes in a universal translation of ancient scriptures and expects to find the words ‘kriya’ and ‘yoga’ or else it is all dismissed as mythology.

You are the fools that are hung up on the myth of Babaji and the nonsense stories distributed by Yukteswar, Yogananda etc. etc. - I have already told you the truth of Babaji.

The most important thing to remember, above all philosophy and discussion, is the actual practice of pranayama and meditation. When a person does this in a way that denotes spiritual progress on a daily basis, that person is referred to as a yogi. If the practice is creating a soothing vibration of peace and bliss within the body, he is doing yoga. All of this argumentative garbage you engage in (on this, and other threads) is the opposite of yoga. I would have thought the people posting on this website would be calmer and more collected about all these sensitive issues. On the contrary, people here are full of desires and reactions.

If you two do not agree with this thread, and the teaching of my lineage and yoga, then feel free to start a new thread. I don’t care what you do, and I will tell you again in pain english: Kriya yoga was not created by, nor never owned by Self-Realization Fellowship, Yogananda, his guru, his friends, his cat, or any thing else connected to the over-zealous fame-hungry Swamis and Giris.

Kriya Yoga, if you learn it from an UNBROKEN LINEAGE FROM INDIA, you are learning a very FRESHLY AND LOVING PRESERVED understanding of what Atmakarma is.

Stop trying to demand things from people on this board, I left my phone number on here a few weeks ago for you, but you did not call. I was willing to explain everything to you. I have no interest in you doing kriya or any other yoga. I wish you would stop your bizarre attitude and reconsider my intentions and contemplate the ideas and possibilities that you have not.

#62

great

: peace :

#63

Kriya yoga is hyping simple breathing exercises as super secret ancient techniques that were only thaught in this particular tradition. The burden of proof lies on the kriya yogis to verify this claim, otherwise they can be thrown on the same garbage pile as all other new age groups. Lahiri Mahasaya was a bhogi, not a yogi, but he was a charismatic man and good at impressing people with his personal imaginations.

Omshanti is abusing Suryadeva calling him unyogic for being sceptical about kriya yoga in general, while omshanti is the one here who started the threat criticising other kriya yoga traditions in order to promote his own version of it. This is simple hypocricy.

#64

Sarvamaṅgalamaṅgalā I understand what you are communicating here. I will try to address your concerns.

As with many yogic lineages, kriya yogis abide by a direct guru-disciple relationship and the techniques are taught in-person, one-on-one (not in a group). Kriya Yoga is a Pranayama Yoga, but it is unique from others in it’s approach and application. I want to stress those two points. Most of the techniques themselves can be also found in other sects from other cultures/locations.

Can I ask, what are these ‘claims’ you speak of? I would like to attempt to address these issues because there is absolutely no reason to have any confusion.

#65

What is your guruji’s claim to the thrown of authentic kriya yoga as opposed to “the hijackers” of this tradition. That is one claim you can start to substantiate with evidence. Every kriya yogi talks about being part of an authentic lineage starting from Lahiri Mahasaya, without providing evidence that what Lahiri Mahasaya thaught was from any authentic lineage and not simply his personal fantasies. The thing is anyone can project their personal fantasies on scriptures, but there are stict rules of language and vedic interpretative science that are often ignored completely by these neo spiritual commentators like Lahiri Mahasaya.

#66

Okay that is a good start…
Here I will try to illustrate the difference between the “hijackers” and authentic kriya yogis.

  1. Techniques, and application of techniques.

This is a logical starting point, as one would naturally want to experiment with the actual kriya yoga propagated by Lahiri Mahashaya and not accepting any alterations and/modifications to the original sadhana.

  1. Lineage

The lineage is the ‘DNA’ of your yoga practice. This ‘DNA’ began with the original rishis and sages that facilitated yoga’s instructional inception. If you have a damaged cell within a lineage, the techniques will not be properly taught to new younger yogis, and eventually that lineage will suffer a massive corruption/disease within itself. The human giving instruction of the kriyas is not a super-human, but an honest person that understands the integrity and knows the importance of maintaining the perfected techniques.

  1. Money etc.

Real kriya yoga is free; but it is not given to everyone. You pay your respects and devotion with yoga practice. The yogi understands that devotion and prayer are synonymous with atmakarma. Humans that benefit financially or materially from the exploitation of ancient yogic practices are not real gurus. This also applies to those who start organizations, religions, cults, pseudo-medical practices, new-age retreats, companies, seminars/lectures etc.

#67

I do respect your stance and opinions, you raise some very valid points. Your skepticism is healthy and I suspect many people will have the same concerns.

#68

You have given a lengthy response while carefully ignoring all my objections :stuck_out_tongue:

#69

Ok, so your not talking about my personal living guru, your beef is with the whole lineage of Lahiri Mahashaya altogether.

I understand you want proof of a living human being guru of Lahiri Mahashaya, but that is not possible. He himself was familiar with many sects, but his guru of Pranayama was a yogi of santanadharma wandering throughout the Himalayan mountain range. Lahiri’s guru was in essence a wild yogi. Because his guru was beyond mundane desires, he had no personal identification, taught that God is the real guru, and did not mention lineages and things like that.

I am not making any claim that kriya yoga is the only functional yoga. Within the sect, it is taught that the techniques have been handed down carefully from ancient sages, but this is not something that you should trip out on.

#70

Let’s not use the word beef.

#71

It is not a simple breathing exercise. One must be able to draw his prana, breath and consciousness along chakras and kshetrams (and must be able to feel the exact trigger point), while performing mudras and bandhas, mentally chanting mantras, and some other stuff…

It’s extremely difficult.

#72

Woah, I have been away for a day and I log on and am greeted by this :smiley:

Anyway I am judging from Om shanti’s extreme reaction to my simple and reasonable request to provide evidence and references for his claims means he has no evidence or references.

Sure, India’s history is hot debated and a lot of research has to be done in this area, but that does not mean we entertain any cock and bull story. The claim that Kriya Yoga is as old as 7000 years, but we no longer have any record of it. Is like claiming the aeroplane is 7000 years, but we no longer have any historical records of it.

I can only go by what historical records show us. George Feuerstein, a foremost scholar on Yoga and author of several publications on its history, philosophy and practice, divides the history of Yoga into four stages 1) Archaic Yoga during Vedic times 2)Pre-classical Yoga during the Upanishadic times 3)Classical Yoga as codified by Patanjali and 4)Post classical Yoga after Patanjali

Post classical Yoga consists of several different streams, including

Tantra: As recorded in in Tantric literature like the agamas, tantras and shastras, as well as Kashmiri Shivaism, Shaiva Siddhanta, Tamil writing of the Siddhas.
Yoga Upanishads: Some twenty new Upanishads dedicated to Yoga
Hatha Yoga: Goraksha Samhita, Shiva Samhita, Hatha Pradapika etc

Kriya Yoga is a late development in the Hatha Yoga tradition. It is basically a form of Yoga which places great emphasis on pranayama and meditation, but none of the techniques it comprises are original. They can already be found scattered about the Hatha Yoga texts, Yoga Upanishads and Tantra lore - only Kriya Yoga brings them together. This new form of Yoga is definitely of modern origin and it is simply a marketing myth to say it has been practiced since 7000 years.

The various techniques it comprises, however, have ancient and modern origins. The central techniques of spinal breathing or rotating prana around the spine and chakra points is of a relatively modern origin and comes from the Tantra traditions. There is no evidence such techniques existed prior to post-classical times.

#73

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;69691]Kriya Yoga is a late development in the Hatha Yoga tradition. [/QUOTE]

Could you provide references SD?
Thank you

#74

Surya Deva,

George Feuerstein is ONE of many so-called ‘authorities’. I already told you and everyone else that the history of the world is debated by historians and geneticists.

No one is impressed with your references to your research. No one is asking you about your opinions about kriya. What is your obsession with this yoga forum?

Please, please, please leave me alone and let me communicate with people that desire to communicate with me.

I have no desire to continue this stupid debate with you or any one else.

Please leave this thread and start your own. You will be free to argue and debate any one.

Thank you.

#75

Again, for any one else: Feel free to contact me either through this website, email or telephone.

Morgan McMahon
California, USA
morgan@popfiasco.com
ph: (949) 375-3389

#76

[QUOTE=omshanti;69695]Surya Deva,

George Feuerstein is ONE of many so-called ‘authorities’. I already told you and everyone else that the history of the world is debated by historians and geneticists.

No one is impressed with your references to your research. No one is asking you about your opinions about kriya. What is your obsession with this yoga forum?

Please, please, please leave me alone and let me communicate with people that desire to communicate with me.

I have no desire to continue this stupid debate with you or any one else.

Please leave this thread and start your own. You will be free to argue and debate any one.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

It must be a real torture to talk to Surya Deva. :wink:

I actually agree with you about Georg Feuerstein, he is mostly a self appointed expert. He did some interesting work, but much of what he has written is not very scholarly. His association with Ken Wilber and fascination with the personality of Jesus makes him even more suspect.

#77

Anything against Wilber?

#78

[QUOTE=panoramix;69698]Anything against Wilber?[/QUOTE]

One reason I am not a big fan of Feuerstein is because the forewords he has written to many suspicious books. In the case of Wilber he even co-authered a book with him. I see Ken Wilber as a big joke and anyone who co-authors a book with him loses my respect.

#79

a big joke?

why?

#80

[QUOTE=panoramix;69703]a big joke?

why?[/QUOTE]
He severely misrepresents advaita/ mahayana/ aurobindo etc. for his own purposes. He is insincere in his quest in these tradition, his purpose is to draw from them so that he can position himself as a genius which he is not obviously.