How do I achieve the ultimate goals of yoga?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

I?ve been practicing ashtanga yoga for several years already, but I feel that I?m not getting closer to three goals specific that I have even though I pay attention to other ?limbs? of practice, such as yama, niyama, pranayama, etc. I also do mindfulness meditation.

  1. Yoga stands for unity. And many teachers say that the ultimate goal is to feel the non-dual awareness or direct experience of the Ultimate / God / Universe.
  2. Control of body. Being able to feel and control your body to the extent of healing diseases, changing hormone levels or just energy levels: going from a complete restorative relaxation to the state of being superiorly productive and energetic.
  3. Control of mind and emotions. Being able to remain concentrated on a given task for as long as needed, being able to momentarily stop negative thinking and emotions after a split second of noticing them arise, being able to get yourself in a state of happiness, peace or excitement quickly and sustainably, for as long as needed.

Not only I haven?t achieved these goals, but I don?t feel that I progress towards them at all.

I?d be happy to hear opinions of those who believe they achieved these on what the top 3 the most impactful and effective things per minute spent practicing one could do in order to progress towards these goals.

If you?re still haven?t achieved the above-mentioned, I?d still appreciate your ideas on how you?d tackle the task. Would you talk to any particular teachers to get your advice, for example? Who are these teachers? In other words, any ideas are welcome!

#2

Your honest assessment of the status and desire to right the wrong is evident.

Some thoughts/ tips:

  1. Are you ready to change? I mean, a change that is comprehensive, a cell-level change in - the way you see things, think, react, do, behave. For example, when we are angry, we ARE angry. We don’t say matter-of-factly that “I have just moved from calm to an agitated state of mind.” Your statement of goals of control of body & mind appear one from you, the narrator about you, the mechanism. In yoga, one stands changed.

  2. To illustrate the above, see what you write: ‘feel the non-dual awareness’. In yoga, some times words don’t deliver the right sense of magnitude of a concept, like this one. ‘Feeling’ is sensing and non-dual state is beyond senses. But please pay attention to this subtle but immensely important point - awareness CREATES duality by separating the object of awareness and one who is aware. So, one is neither aware nor feels anything. One simply IS. Now this is not a clever word-play. We have within us as much space as we have without. Yoga lets us explore it.

  3. Non-dual state is afar, but even a journey towards it gives joy that is not even comparable with any known happiness. But then the journey is also not easy and simple. We understand many things in yoga quite quickly, but that is only intellectual. And not enough. The real journey is walking the talk. You say that you pay attention to yama, niyama, pranayama etc. Its a step in the right direction. But these are external limbs. Pratyahara ability is a break-through that is needed to become inward-bound and then any meditative states are possible.

So, here’s what you could do: paint an honest picture of your own self say, 20 years from now. Write any which way. Assess if that profile contains even 70% meditative things. If not, re-think yoga or down-size your expectations. Only the initial yoga needs a teacher, later one could do own practice. Mind-mischief is continuous then yoga as a corrective practice has to be all the wakeful time.

Keep a journal. Notice any permanent behavior change. Find a teacher to make independent observations. There is no giant leap to enlightenment but millions of tiny steps will certainly take you there. (read ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’, if you haven’t.

#3

[QUOTE=justaguest;84533]

  1. Yoga stands for unity. And many teachers say that the ultimate goal is to feel the non-dual awareness or direct experience of the Ultimate / God / Universe. [/QUOTE]

Yes, Yoga stands for unity with “Atma”, but then that is a goal to be achieved by “first liberating oneself with any goals”. Yogic path itself is contradictory in nature. If one sets something like “travel from point A to point B” in the physical world, that may be possible…but setting goals in spiritual pursuit defeats the spiritual effort itself. So, one need to have open mind on all aspects of spiritual practice and at some point one may feel that he/she is really one with “Atma” or achieved “moksha” for a few moments of time. A major point of Bhagavat Geeta is not to expect rewards for the deeds,especially, in spiritual path.

[QUOTE=justaguest;84533]
2. Control of body. Being able to feel and control your body to the extent of healing diseases, changing hormone levels or just energy levels: going from a complete restorative relaxation to the state of being superiorly productive and energetic.
[/QUOTE]

A feeling of well-being and inner peace can be obtained from Yoga, in combination with good food ([I]Satvic[/I]) and lifestyle, may even improve the immunity system. However, I really doubt it can heal diseases. Balanced hormone levels can be achieved through asanas (like [I]Sarvangasana[/I]).
I have experienced increased productivity levels with Asana practice itself.

However, Yogic path is not a substitute for “Energy Drinks” and related problems with them :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=justaguest;84533]
3. Control of mind and emotions. Being able to remain concentrated on a given task for as long as needed, being able to momentarily stop negative thinking and emotions after a split second of noticing them arise, being able to get yourself in a state of happiness, peace or excitement quickly and sustainably, for as long as needed.
[/QUOTE]
If one needs to concentrate on a task for longer times, there are certain pranayams, but then it depends on the task as well. If it is like a task that you dislike, I doubt Yoga can help with that.

[QUOTE=justaguest;84533]
Not only I haven?t achieved these goals, but I don?t feel that I progress towards them at all.
[/QUOTE]
Progress is a journey and may not be a destination point.

[QUOTE=justaguest;84533]
I?d be happy to hear opinions of those who believe they achieved these on what the top 3 the most impactful and effective things per minute spent practicing one could do in order to progress towards these goals.

If you?re still haven?t achieved the above-mentioned, I?d still appreciate your ideas on how you?d tackle the task. Would you talk to any particular teachers to get your advice, for example? Who are these teachers? In other words, any ideas are welcome![/QUOTE]

Yoga (or any spiritual path) path is not be measured and expected on the lines of “how many hours are spent” and “how many dollars are spent” line of thinking.
(As an aside, Yoga flourished in India, because, in those days, the material needs are fulfilled by society and lot of leisure time is present in daily lives.)
In short, Yogic path is not a business proposition and contract from God to humanity. Yogic path requires “surrender to the supreme first” approach as a starter.

One can consider “Bhakti Yoga” as an alternative, in this “kali yuga” (difficult times), as it is believed to be of less effort. However, “surrender” is the first requirement of “Bhakti Yoga”.

P.S: [I]The above are my opinions and I am not into regular practice of Yoga and hence are opinions from books I have read.[/I]

#4

May I pose a question instead of a reply?

What part or parts of Yoga seem to you to be most related to what you are seeking? And for the sake of both clarity and brevity perhaps constrain your answer to yama, niyama, and klesha. However if one or two other things outside of those 15 feel pertinent to share, please do so.

#5

justaguest:

The fact you don’t feel any progress does not mean any progress is not going on.
Like you I’ve experienced that doubt and frustration frequently, but after ten years of practice sometimes I realize there has been some little progress. And that’s what counts.

Do not despair. :wink:

#6

The most any teacher (outside guru) will be able to convey is; “you are mistaken as to what you take yourself to be” i.e. only you will be able to evaluate, confirm and concur and the paths are as many as there are arising specs in consciousness. Yoga as per Patanjali’s Sutras may lead to direct experiences (Samadhi) of advaita (non-dual/not two) but it’s simply the mind state void of disturbance/vibration without being lost in sleep, a merging of individual self (atman) with the ground of reality (Brahman), that which you’ve never been separate, a happening that most likely will wet ones appetite to transcend human limitations and solve the existential problems of life beyond suffering i.e. when the mind is emptied of all other thoughts Self-knowledge arises therefore besides Raja one should not neglect the other Yoga’s; Karma, Bhakti, and Jnana…in the very least they seem to benefit the human condition. Mind is the cause of bondage as well as of liberation, settle and examine the mind (self-inquire) around that which causes your entire world to arise, sense of existence.

#7

I also have a question for you justaguest: Do you practice yoga with a teacher? Is there someone who you feel has achieved what you’re striving for that you can learn from?

Also I agree with some of the comments above, sometimes progress doesn’t really feel like progress. When you practice are you focused on the goals and thinking about achieving them? Or do you surrender to just being present 100%, exactly in the moment? When we set large goals for ourselves we sometimes lose sight of the present moment and get too caught up in the “achievement”.

Another point I might add is this; have you fully accepted and embraced yourself just as you are without having reached your goals? This was extremely difficult for myself but a fundamental stepping stone for my journey.

Just a few tid bits for you to consider:)

#8

In spirituality don’t keep goals. Just keep trying and observe how nature brings transformations in you.

Your problem is that you have fixed goals, already defined.

#9

[QUOTE=SohamYogaStudio;84569]In spirituality don’t keep goals. Just keep trying and observe how nature brings transformations in you.

Your problem is that you have fixed goals, already defined.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Goals are concepts, and concepts are ambiguous, not the “ultimate reality”.
But I don’t think that may be the cause of his complain. The cause is that evolution is slow, even if boosted with spiritual practices.

#10

Realizing concepts in human consciousness arise out of ignorance the false is seen as false, the illusion is exposed, the programing collapses upon its self, no one is left to be held in bondage, there are things unknown and knowing this could change everything.

#11

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;84534]
2. To illustrate the above, see what you write: ‘feel the non-dual awareness’. In yoga, some times words don’t deliver the right sense of magnitude of a concept, like this one. ‘Feeling’ is sensing and non-dual state is beyond senses. But please pay attention to this subtle but immensely important point - awareness CREATES duality by separating the object of awareness and one who is aware. So, one is neither aware nor feels anything. One simply IS. Now this is not a clever word-play. We have within us as much space as we have without. Yoga lets us explore it.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for responding. Sure, this is what I actually meant, it you think these words describe the concept in a more precise way, fine.
I think the question is about personal experience of those who achieved it and what specifically they find most helpful on this path.

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;84534]
3. Non-dual state is afar, but even a journey towards it gives joy that is not even comparable with any known happiness. But then the journey is also not easy and simple. We understand many things in yoga quite quickly, but that is only intellectual. And not enough. The real journey is walking the talk. You say that you pay attention to yama, niyama, pranayama etc. Its a step in the right direction. But these are external limbs. Pratyahara ability is a break-through that is needed to become inward-bound and then any meditative states are possible.
[/QUOTE]

It’s just that I haven’t mentioned all eight, but what was meant is that I keep them in mind and don’t focus exclusively on asanas.

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;84534]
So, here’s what you could do: paint an honest picture of your own self say, 20 years from now. Write any which way. Assess if that profile contains even 70% meditative things. If not, re-think yoga or down-size your expectations. Only the initial yoga needs a teacher, later one could do own practice. Mind-mischief is continuous then yoga as a corrective practice has to be all the wakeful time.
[/QUOTE]

Could you explain what exactly you mean by meditative things?

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;84534]
Keep a journal. Notice any permanent behavior change. Find a teacher to make independent observations. There is no giant leap to enlightenment but millions of tiny steps will certainly take you there. (read ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’, if you haven’t.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, reading it is on my list of things to do in next month. Thanks for recommendation.

#12

yaram,

Thanks for replying!

but setting goals in spiritual pursuit defeats the spiritual effort itself. A major point of Bhagavat Geeta is not to expect rewards for the deeds,especially, in spiritual path.

I actually respectfully disagree. One might set goals, develop a deliberate and effective plan to move towards them and still not be attached to the result. And on the other hand, one might have no clear goals, can simply do random things in a non-productive way, but still be very attached to the result he or she wants to get.

One can consider “Bhakti Yoga” as an alternative, in this “kali yuga” (difficult times), as it is believed to be of less effort. However, “surrender” is the first requirement of “Bhakti Yoga”.

How exactly do you think surrender should manifest in reality except from not getting attached to the fruits of practice?

Thanks!

#13

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;84541]May I pose a question instead of a reply?

What part or parts of Yoga seem to you to be most related to what you are seeking? And for the sake of both clarity and brevity perhaps constrain your answer to yama, niyama, and klesha. However if one or two other things outside of those 15 feel pertinent to share, please do so.[/QUOTE]

Hi InnerAthlete, I am not sure I understand the question. Thanks for responding.

#14

[QUOTE=panoramix;84544]
The fact you don’t feel any progress does not mean any progress is not going on.
Like you I’ve experienced that doubt and frustration frequently, but after ten years of practice sometimes I realize there has been some little progress. And that’s what counts.

Do not despair. ;)[/QUOTE]

Hi panoramix, thanks for response.

There is no despair at all, just a desire to learn from those who achieved what I strive to achieve and adjust my practice correspondingly.

#15

[QUOTE=SohamYogaStudio;84569]In spirituality don’t keep goals. Just keep trying and observe how nature brings transformations in you.

Your problem is that you have fixed goals, already defined.[/QUOTE]

I actually respectfully disagree. One might set goals, develop a deliberate and effective plan to move towards them and still not be attached to the result. And on the other hand, one might have no clear goals, can simply do random things in a non-productive way, but still be very attached to the result he or she wants to get.

I think if we were honest with ourselves, we’d have to acknowledge that there is alway a goal. Even if you don’t call it that way. Or if you don’t think of it consciously. Otherwise, why would you practice?

#16

[QUOTE=Kristie Eccleston;84546]I also have a question for you justaguest: Do you practice yoga with a teacher? Is there someone who you feel has achieved what you’re striving for that you can learn from? [/QUOTE]

I don’t. And I don’t think that I ever met anyone who achieved even 10% of what I meant here. Do you know a teach like this?

[QUOTE=Kristie Eccleston;84546]
Also I agree with some of the comments above, sometimes progress doesn’t really feel like progress. When you practice are you focused on the goals and thinking about achieving them? Or do you surrender to just being present 100%, exactly in the moment? When we set large goals for ourselves we sometimes lose sight of the present moment and get too caught up in the “achievement”.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I didn’t think of my goals at all and never clarified them. But then I decided to make a step back and think about big picture of my practice.

[QUOTE=Kristie Eccleston;84546]
Another point I might add is this; have you fully accepted and embraced yourself just as you are without having reached your goals? This was extremely difficult for myself but a fundamental stepping stone for my journey.

Just a few tid bits for you to consider:)[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for ideas!

#17

[QUOTE=justaguest;84605]
I actually respectfully disagree. [B]One might set goals, develop a deliberate and effective plan[/B] to move towards them [B]and still not be attached to the result[/B]. And on the other hand, one might have no clear goals, can simply do random things in a non-productive way, but still be very attached to the result he or she wants to get.[/QUOTE]

If there is such a deliberate and effective plan, then why is such a plan, is not known to most of the humanity in this 21st century (Yoga being at least 2000 years old). One may say, Yoga itself is THE path.One may say it depends on the person, time and space…but then there are other factors, I think:

  1. Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle). One may say, these laws are not applicable to spiritual fields, but then, that begs a proof.:smiley:

  2. Law of Karma: (It has many variants, “Sanchita Karma” , “Prarabda Karma” etc)

  3. There is some amount of contradiction in “setting a goal and plan” and “being unattached to the result” at the same time. May be, I am not clear and not experienced it…!!!

All this goes deeper and deeper into philosophy and that is a big ocean…!!!

[QUOTE=justaguest;84605]
How exactly do you think surrender should manifest in reality except from not getting attached to the fruits of practice?
Thanks![/QUOTE]

I think, if one achieves “not getting attached to the fruits of practice”, that itself is surrender (to the super-self) and that may even be one of the goals of Yoga.

P.S: [I]The above are some of the thoughts by a logical mind and not a “spiritual” one.[/I]

#18

Some points of philosophy (Vedanta) to ponder:

Illustrations in Vedanta

[B]Butter in Milk[/B]

Butter or ghee exists in milk. But where is it? It cannot be perceived. But it is present everywhere in milk, in each and every drop of milk. There is no particle of milk where butter or ghee is not present. In the same manner Brahman is present everywhere; and there is no speck of space where Brahman is not. But Brahman cannot be perceived and It seems to be nowhere. It is the very essence of cream of existence, but It is nowhere to the eyes of a worldly-minded man. This illustrates the omnipresence of Brahman.

#19

“Only a non-illusory state can know the illusory state. The no-being state is the Parabrahman.” ~Nisargadatta

#20

[QUOTE=justaguest;84606]Hi InnerAthlete, I am not sure I understand the question. Thanks for responding.[/QUOTE]

I’m attempting to cut to the chase on your inquiry.

Are you familiar with the 15 principles I’ve asked you about?

If you are then I’ll refine my question to you.

If you are not, then once you are we can then entertain the original question you pose.