How do you know you have held a pose for enough time?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forum. I am 29 years old, male and live in New Delhi, India. I have been practising Yoga irregularly for a decade now.

I have a question. How do you know how long you should hold a particular pose? I have tried to answer this question in a few ways but have not really found a satisfactory answer.

  • My meditation teachers said that about 30 seconds is a good duration to hold a pose. My problem with this is that if I watch the clock, then, obviously my awareness of breath and body suffers. If I let my mind guess, in an approximate manner, that it is 30 seconds now - I do not find that very reliable, especially in the more challenging poses. Also, sometimes I find that, intuitively speaking, 30 seconds is not enough for certain poses.

  • I have tried counting up to a certain number, say 50, or counting my breaths, but again, doing this makes my awareness of my body and breath diminish.

  • What I usually do is to be aware of the stretch in my muscles, and my breathing, and wait till the moment when I feel I have held the pose for long enough. This often, though not with every pose, means that the muscles have been stretched beyond their usual state considerably and there has been a bit of a ‘struggle’ (although that word makes it sound more agitated than it is) between my stretching the muscles and the body wanting the muscles to remain as they are. Also, it means that I have continued for long enough to breath deeply despite the body’s tendency to breath shallow or even stop breathing when the pose is challenging.

This is what seems to work for me, but I am not quite satisfied. One, I realise that whenever I do yoga in a group, I hold the pose for longer than I do when I am alone, and that makes me much more centred and aware at the end of the session. Also, it still feels that the wish to come to that moment when I feel I have stretched the body and worked with the breath enough involves the mind too much, taking attention away from the actual here-and-now sensations in the body.

How do you know when you can release the pose?

#2

5 breaths, deep breaths through the nose.

#3

Thanks. Is there a particular reason for that duration? Would it be different if I were doing yoga not for 1 hour but for 2 hours?

#4

It’s simply a good pace. We use that 5 breaths in Ashtanga Yoga Practice. I sometimes will hold longer depending on where I am at in my practice. For me it is about a minute and focurs on the breath can bring calmness within the practice.

#5

Depend from the Asana, you can also stay 20 min, 1/2 hour in an asana, at the beginning is good to stay only few breath,like they do in the dynamic yoga practice ( Ashtanga vinyasa, flow , etc) , later on is possible ( on a more advanced stage) to stay longer allowing the awareness to move from annamaya kosha to pranamaya and manomaya,and experience the asana on a more deeper level, but is always good to be guided properly by an experienced teacher.
And as been suggested above, you don’t need to count the seconds or watch the clock, you can use the breath, or even better the mental repetition of a mantra.

#6

[QUOTE=AndreaBarra;85791] later on is possible ( on a more advanced stage) to stay longer allowing the awareness to move from annamaya kosha to pranamaya and manomaya,and experience the asana on a more deeper level, but is always good to be guided properly by an experienced teacher.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I am curious about what you mean in these lines. I know the Taittiriya Upanishad’s model of the koshas, but what precisely does it mean to allow the awareness to move from annamaya kosha to pranamaya and to manomaya?

Does it mean that initially, when in an asana, one is aware only of the body, but then one also comes to an awareness of the prana (which I take to include the breath, blood flow, and other things), and then the thoughts and emotions?

#7

[QUOTE=daves007;85790]It’s simply a good pace. We use that 5 breaths in Ashtanga Yoga Practice. I sometimes will hold longer depending on where I am at in my practice. For me it is about a minute and focurs on the breath can bring calmness within the practice.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. That’s interesting. I’ll try it, although I think I will feel it’s a bit too short. :slight_smile:

#8

[QUOTE=kaif84;85793]

Does it mean that initially, when in an asana, one is aware only of the body, but then one also comes to an awareness of the prana (which I take to include the breath, blood flow, and other things), and then the thoughts and emotions?[/QUOTE]

You got it,that’s what I mean, it’s interesting the observation of emotion-thought that arise spontaneously with different asana, then the connection body-mind become quite clear.

#9

[QUOTE=AndreaBarra;85796]You got it,that’s what I mean, it’s interesting the observation of emotion-thought that arise spontaneously with different asana, then the connection body-mind become quite clear.[/QUOTE]

Would you say that such experiencing is possible at the jnanamaya and anandamaya koshas? In a sense, ahamkara (the sense of being an individual) perhaps ends at the manomaya, so experiencing may have a different connotation. I do know that a sense of detachment, distance and quiet joy can come from a good yoga session.

I am going to write a different post on this one of these days, but right now I would say that I am often struck by how the asanas can make emerge so much more emotion and also more thoughts. Sometimes, these are about things I have been thinking and feeling anyhow, but not to the intensity that yoga evokes. At other times, I remember things which were not on my mind before, such as an event that took place a fortnight ago.

#10

In my understanding , ahamkara is present also at vijnanamaya and maybe start to dissolve in anandamaya ,but of course , that’s just what i think about .
Maybe at the level of vijnanamaya we are able to witness clearly the connection of the first 3 koshas ?
it’s interesting the parallelism : asana- pranayama-pratyahara- dharana- dhyana- samadhi
with the panchakosha .

Asana- annamaya
pranayama- pranamaya
prathyahara- manomaya
dharana- manomaya/vijnanamaya
dhyana- vijnanamaya
samadhi- anandamaya

#11

Very interesting. I’m not sure if I understand how dhyana is correlated to vijnanamaya and samadhi to anandamaya. As you know, the interpretations of what really samadhi and dhyana are tend to vary.

I have always thought that the last three, if not four of the limbs of yoga refer not to physical yoga but to meditation. Dhyana, dharana, and samadhi in particular are three points on a continuum. Hariharananda Aranya, an early 20th century commentator on the sutras writes of them as water dropping from a tap, first with a time lag between the drops, then there being little time lag, and finally, a smooth flow, like oil.

Within samadhi also, there is savikalpa and nirvikalpa, and savichara and nirvichara. I wonder how that would be explained by a correlation to anandamaya?

From what I understand, BKS Iyengar tends to consider physical yoga to be applicable all the way to samadhi, but that is perhaps a non-traditional view of the process.

#12

Yes Samyama ( dharana- dhyana -samadhi) is a continuum , and refer to the inner yoga , you are right, and at that point i think that the asana should be seen as comfortable and steady pose to allow the process of samyama to happen. That’s why an asana hold for long is good so that the process move from outer yoga to inner yoga.

Regarding the correlation, it’s just an idea, we can say that at prathyahara we move the awareness from external to internal shutting down the senses ( the senses are the bridge between the internal and external), at this level usually happen that the flow of thought manifest much stronger ( manomaya), when we are able to concentrate (Dharana) without being involved in the flow of thought we start to experience vijnanamaya , because we become able to separate the flow of though from us ( the witness, the one who observe the thought) , coming to the realisation (not just understanding) that we are not the mind but the observer of the mind, so on a practical level we can develop viveka and vairagya .
I think that dhyana when really experienced during the practice , have the effect also afterward , in the daily life.

Also Samadhi as you said, go through different stages, I made the association samadhi/ anandamaya , because i think that during the samadhi stages the deep rooted samskara start to “release” , and maybe that can be the anandamaya, anandamaya is not the ultimate anyway, the ultimate is the Atman , that could be the last stage of Samadhi .

So maybe, anandamaya is during the different stages of samadhi, till the last stage where the Atman is experienced.

#13

Hello Kaif84,

The last sentence of your third paragraph answers your question. In the bigger picture of the practice the duration of the pose depends on the intention of the practitioner. Of course only you can determine that for you just as I determine it for me.

It can, unfortunately, be made into mental gymnastics and while there may be a place for that, generally asana is not to be performed or mentalized but rather felt and explored. If the student is so scattered and out of touch with themselves then it may be appropriate to give that student a number.

While we know that BKS Iyengar’s current practice is several hours and that he’s doing 1 hour sirsasana and 30 minutes sarvangasana, that is for his dharma, his purpose, his life’s mission. Remaining in a pose to refine it and get to know yourself better is profound. Remaining to meet a criteria because “it’s there” is a foolish following that can lead to dominion or being controlled. Of course in a class one is surrendering their personal practice for the group practice and therefor the reply for that is quite different - but that is not what you are asking.

With regard to philosophy, I subscribe to “applied philosophy” rather than the discussion of it or pontification. The question of “how do I use it” must be posed early and often otherwise we get lost in the mentality of THAT and it becomes a distraction rather than a pathway to liberation.

#14

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;85803]

With regard to philosophy, I subscribe to “applied philosophy” rather than the discussion of it or pontification. The question of “how do I use it” must be posed early and often otherwise we get lost in the mentality of THAT and it becomes a distraction rather than a pathway to liberation.[/QUOTE]

I agree, the philosophy is the “map” and the practice ( application of it ) is the territory .
The map is not the territory , it will help in the discover of the “territory”, but just studying and focussing on the map is pointless .

#15

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;85803]Hello Kaif84,

The last sentence of your third paragraph answers your question. In the bigger picture of the practice the duration of the pose depends on the intention of the practitioner. Of course only you can determine that for you just as I determine it for me.

It can, unfortunately, be made into mental gymnastics and while there may be a place for that, generally asana is not to be performed or mentalized but rather felt and explored. If the student is so scattered and out of touch with themselves then it may be appropriate to give that student a number.

While we know that BKS Iyengar’s current practice is several hours and that he’s doing 1 hour sirsasana and 30 minutes sarvangasana, that is for his dharma, his purpose, his life’s mission. Remaining in a pose to refine it and get to know yourself better is profound. Remaining to meet a criteria because “it’s there” is a foolish following that can lead to dominion or being controlled. Of course in a class one is surrendering their personal practice for the group practice and therefor the reply for that is quite different - but that is not what you are asking.

With regard to philosophy, I subscribe to “applied philosophy” rather than the discussion of it or pontification. The question of “how do I use it” must be posed early and often otherwise we get lost in the mentality of THAT and it becomes a distraction rather than a pathway to liberation.[/QUOTE]
Hi Gordon. Thanks for your reply. It makes total sense.

I asked the question primarily because I know that when I am on a retreat, my interest in and ability to hold a pose for long is much more than when I am back in the city I live in, with the people I live with, where there are quite a few psychological stresses.

I was on retreat for a fortnight and was doing yoga for about 2 hours everyday, and it made me feel very in touch with myself and centred. The day I came back, things changed. I was more stiff, and my breathing was much more shallow. The same pose I could be in for 5-10 minutes in the retreat was now hard to maintain for more than a minute. I have been working to get to the way of being I had in the retreat, in yoga and otherwise, and in doing that, the duration I hold a pose seems important.

I realise I need to decide for myself how long I want to hold the pose, and one of the things I am doing in that process is to not be at war with myself, and at the same time, be aware of my resistance to yoga and not identify with it totally.

#16

@Andrea Barra: To clarify my point on applied philosophy … the application is to LIFE rather than to the practice, when it (the practice) is defined only as “on the mat”. For those practicing throughout the day, practicing a complete yoga, living their yoga, yes the application is the territory.

@Kaif84: What you illustrate is the application. When you are in a cave, on retreat, buffered from the world (as we know it and have both created it and allowed it to be) you have an ease to your doing. And that is the time to refine and hone the skill set for use in the world (returning home, as it were). Many yogis before us were renunciates, living in seclusion, withdrawn from the world. Clearly however, that has not evolved the planet or spiritualized mankind. And so while the old yoga may have been “about” one’s own personal ascension, the yoga required today has to be applied in the real world if we have a shot at the sort of living that is our birthright.

#17

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;85813]@Andrea Barra: To clarify my point on applied philosophy … the application is to LIFE rather than to the practice, when it (the practice) is defined only as “on the mat”. For those practicing throughout the day, practicing a complete yoga, living their yoga, yes the application is the territory.

Of course the application is LIFE, when I say " practice" I refer to the practical application in day to day life.

#18

How do you know when you can release the pose?

No one can answer this. All answers will fail. It all depends on your own body and it changes any day/time. Keep listening to your body and remain as long as you can. Body will tell when it is over.