How does one go into deep meditation?

[QUOTE=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… .[/QUOTE]

To say that the mind is nothing more than just electrical signals is just like saying that water is nothing more than just hydrogen and oxygen molecules, when in fact the whole spectrum of existence is there in a single atom, from the source of existence, to the vacuum of space, to electrons, and so on. The electrical signals that are happening in the brain are a by product of something else entirely.

“I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued”

Don’t align yourself with anything whatsoever. The so called 36 tattvas is just an intellectual model. Useful, but useless if you are clinging to it as though it is some kind of absolute truth. Existence is not something that can be contained by a mere intellectual model, it is well beyond that.

[QUOTE=PJ2001;14983]

In any case, deep meditation means complete emptiness of the mind?[/QUOTE]

Because one has not known of anything else except the activity of the mind, for one to speak of “emptiness of the mind”, is going to be absolutely meaningless. If one is interested in coming to know of meditation, one should have no assumptions whatsoever about what it is. Neither is there much point of speakign of a thing in which one has no direct experience. It is far better to do away with all words and descriptions and start sitting. When it arises, it will be without a doubt that you have come into contact with a totally different dimension of experience.

[QUOTE=PJ2001;14996]That sounds like your ego disappearing, which I believe I read is the delta state of the brainwaves (1-4hz per second).[/QUOTE]

Then when a man like Einstein has a penetrating insight into general relativity, it is nothing more than neurons firing off.

Do not get entangled in this idea that various different states of consciousness are mere brainwaves. But if you would like to hold onto the idea, then you can explore the whole existence through mere brainwaves.

Regarding post 21# Amir, above

Yip,that’s a good point.It’s beyond the mind.Conceptualisation gets in the way of true understanding. Direct experience.

Mind is just a construct. So how does it arise then out of consciousness? It’s just a tool for seeing reality. But it’s not reality. Why do we need to associate with form/mind ? We don’t but will there always be “mental” phenomena? By that i mean thoughts.We drop the identification with conceptual thinking. It’s there and may arise but it’s not pure consciousness.

Well Panormaix has done well since this last post:-

It is very difficult to arrive there, to me it is the most difficult thing to achieve for a human being. It might take decades to success.
Assuming he has had some awakening of Kundalni.I’ve had some mild movments of kundalin recently utlising the same system in some of the lowerchakras after waking up my thrid-eye more…I’ve had plenty of practice at meditaiton and refinements in technique etc so it should be just a matter of time. Also i’ve been trying to follow Amir’s sadhana…one meal a day suggesstion.My manipura has always been an issue but i think i’m making progresss.Have heard that when it gets to manipura there’s no going back… it’s unlikely to go retreat back and will stabilise. But these things can go off like fireworks…

The tattvas i could’nt tell you anything about. But i like the idea that matter emerged out of consciousness. That sounds like tantric and modern cosmology to me.

[QUOTE=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.[/QUOTE]

I agree the mind is not just brain waves, but perhaps the brain waves are a by product of the mind? :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;50631]How does one go into deep meditation?

Unaware.[/QUOTE]

That would be sleep.

Deep meditation is like sleep, but with awareness. When all the senses have been pulled inward the body naturally falls asleep. The state is very pronounced and you will most likely be jolted from it’s grace the first few times you approach it. Afternoon naps are great for experiencing the first stages of this experience…

Learn to remain perfectly aware as you fall asleep each night. Use that same awareness to steady the mind. The mind must be steadied without grasping or aversion. I have to disagree with those that claim nothing happens in deep meditation. You will recognize it immediately when it happens to you. Your body will fall asleep and your conscious awareness will expand outward and inward simultaneously. For me I feel as though I become aware of every atomic vibration in my body.

Check out the book, “The Tibetan yogas of dream and sleep”. Learn to have lucid dreams, and then learn to maintain that awareness even into deep sleep.

Humans can only survive about 10 day’s with no sleep. We can however easily survive 30, 60, 90 day’s without food. There is clearly something very special about deep sleep that recharges our minds each night. My goal is to learn to maintain awareness through ever stage of sleep. Kriya yoga helps by increasing my awareness of “right now”.

Cheers

core, :slight_smile:

If you are becoming hungry sometime during the day after eating the meal, there are a number of things that can be done to help dissolve the sensations of hunger. One is to use shitali or shikari pranayam as it removes heat from the stomach and changes the chemistry which brings about hunger. Another is concentration upon visshudhi chakra, once the energies of this center are awakened, it tends to bring about a certain level of immunity to hunger.

[QUOTE=gnulnx;50732] My goal is to learn to maintain awareness through ever stage of sleep.
Cheers[/QUOTE]

That would have much to do with the state of consciousness you are in during that final moment of transition from wakefulness to sleep. Depending on that state, it triggers certain tendencies which continue throughout the sleep. So if you can manage to go to sleep in a meditative consciousness, the meditation continues throughout the sleep.

[QUOTE=AmirMourad;50735]That would have much to do with the state of consciousness you are in during that final moment of transition from wakefulness to sleep. Depending on that state, it triggers certain tendencies which continue throughout the sleep. So if you can manage to go to sleep in a meditative consciousness, the meditation continues throughout the sleep.[/QUOTE]

^^ exactly. The Tibetans refer to sleep as the mini death. If we can’t maintain awareness through our mini deaths then what hope is there to maintain it across true death?

One of the best practices I have to date is sticking a rubber band on your wrist for a few weeks. Every time you notice the rubber band stop what you are doing and literally determine if you are dreaming of not. Do what ever it takes to completely convince your self that you are indeed awake. Eventually you will look down at the rubber band and realize that you are indeed dreaming. The first lucid dream is one of the most profound experiences most people ever have…but I hear it pales in comparison to the clear light awareness of deep sleep. :slight_smile:

I’m relatively new to meditation, and I’m so glad someone brought up how difficult it is to maintain that deep meditation. I seem to be just touching it and I’m there for a very short period of time. Very hard to maintain. I have a good deal of pressure at that time in the third eye.

I’m hoping to expand my time, as it’s a beautiful state. I find my daily life being affected in the most positive of ways to include my mental health, physical surroundings…I could go on, but it really is phenomenal.

I have had experience in the lucid state. I don’t try anymore with that due to some negative out of body experiences (not lucid dreams), that’s just the easiest way to project.

Meditation is concentration upon God.

You can concentrate upon one single object. Oftenwise, in the Western literature you might find “to meditate upon the qualities of one object.” In the yoga literature and practice I have met so far, this is concentration, not meditation.

To enter deep meditation first you have to learn how to withdraw the senses from the
senses, which might perturb your meditation. This can be achieved by calming the mind, the brain and the heart. Then the heart will rest, the breathlesness comes, and with it
withdrawal of the senses.

[quote=AmirMourad;50733]core, :slight_smile:

If you are becoming hungry sometime during the day after eating the meal, there are a number of things that can be done to help dissolve the sensations of hunger. One is to use shitali or shikari pranayam as it removes heat from the stomach and changes the chemistry which brings about hunger. Another is concentration upon visshudhi chakra, once the energies of this center are awakened, it tends to bring about a certain level of immunity to hunger.[/quote]

Very helpful Amir.:cool:

I have reduced my dietary intake the past week and derived discernibley noticeable benenfit. I am going to do my best to try to observe the new diet, i.e one meal a day unless it ends up detriminetal to health, and will keep your suggesstions in mind. I have been concluding that the diet bit is a serious continuous yoga practice in itself and you hear so much in the literature about giving importance to diet.My problem is i ate too much so these suggesstions and your intentions are really helpful.

I’ll keep you update on how i’m progressing.

I have got to the stage where i am confident enough in my own sadhana and the predictability of the results so far that the kundalini is just waiting patiently to rise. I have been refining some of my technique and methods. And so i really appreciate the help from someone further along the path and with more knowledge and experience.

Your help and suggesstions are very much appreiciated.

The path here looks a bit more predicatble and clearer.I’m patient but i can kind of see this thing going off kundalin-wise and have started to make better inward progress since opening up the third-eye better and getting more balance in there. I can actually feel it within the brain-hemispheres and will continue what i am currently doing.Balanced crown & third-eye activity are significant cues.This apporach is more leisurely yet seems more targeted…we’ll see.I was’nt sure how to tackle it before withe only most effective recourses or so ithought i had being in partuclar nadi shodhana or mantra japa yoga and a host of of little tricks and methods to try and make inroads…and much experimentation in-between. . The dominant pingala was always an issue here. So i find i’m making more predicatble headway here and don’t feel i have to effort so much.

Reading the subtle domain - one thing.
Having the tools- yet another.

Your adivce and suggesstions, guidance etc is very much appreciated.I’m getting there and getting better.

Also eating too much was a serious impediment to fitting into a sadhana schedule and so i have observed the efficacy of practice when a diet or restrictions on it are observed.The practices do indeed work better if the system is empty of digestive proessing… also the mind is sharper more alert etc. I think did it for the dopamine fix and something to do…as many do. aS long as i don’t get too thin but it think it will and should really help here.If you’re working on manpiura it’s amust

In one of the texts the the gerundha or Siva Samhita perhaps i have heard it sugggested

to keep stomach:-

1/2 full of food
1/4 of water
1/4 empty

mere suggesstion,

like you are almost slightly hungry-ish is a good thing.

also i might alter it too slightly…make it healthier.

and in Hatha Yoga pradipika neither to eat too much i.e too excess or either too little. The dominant idea behind yogic diet is balance so tht we do not starve or then have a binge to excess.Hence why it s aid that forced diets don’t work because the desires may still reside and indeed remain supressed in the mind.

Indeed that is where the supperior efficacy of a multi-thronged approach to yoga comes in. Diet being a part of one of the limbs.

Sometimes i have my doubts about the “grace” bit in yoga… i keep on thinking to myself …no it’s a science.You do this and get that. Or you don’t do anything.Perhaps the grace bit is the doing nothing bit.

The kingdom of God comes to those that do nothing…lol

Thanks very much.:cool: