Hello, I’m the new guy!
What I wanted to know was, how exactly does one remain conscious while the person’s brainwaves are basically at about 7 or 6hz per second? This is what I was told one needs to do to go to the deep meditative states. But how is this possible? How does one do it?
Thanks
PJ
Meditation is like any other skill that is learned, it takes lots of practice. People spend years meditating in order to reach this state and many never do because it is a difficult place to reach and sustain.
I am not sure about the numbers on a persons brainwaves but it seems that you are looking at this the wrong way, making it seem impossible. If you look at anything from the perspective of the end result while standing on the outside it often times seems like an impossible/unreachable feat. To use snowboarding as an example, work on strapping the board on your feet before you try to figure out how to do a 360 back flip off a half pipe.
Addressing you main question of how does one meditate, there are many many many different ways to practice meditation. None really being inherently better than the other, they are just different paths to the same end. Perhaps join a meditation club in your city or even read a book to get some fundamentals. I am sure there are meditation threads on here somewhere :).
PJ
A helpful first step in understanding meditation is to distinguish it clearly from concentration and contemplation: focus on thought, and reflection on thought, whereas meditation is an absence of thought. From the later we recognize the former as they happen and witness them without involvement.
One of the more common misconceptions we find about meditation is that something will happen there: that there is some significant effect that happens during the meditation (which is not unlike sitting and praying for a miracle). When in reality…NOTHING HAPPENS IN MEDITATION! And that’s exactly the point. Rather the effects are witnessed in the transformation of daily life and can be measured over the course of time with continued practice.
It’s not unlike brushing your teeth. You do that every day in order to prevent disease and decay, but not in hopes of fixing a cavity. That would be praying for a miracle.
I hope this simplifies it.
Peace,
Siva
Tell me more, Siva…
Isn’t it true that when Bhuddist or Hindu masters meditate deeply, the brainwaves are very low - like around 4-7hz per second? At least that’s what I read.
In any case, deep meditation means complete emptiness of the mind?
HI PJ2001,
You have to let your mind repose until it disappears, and that what remains is pure consciousness.
There are several techniques: some concentrate in the inner sounds (anahat), others make use of mantras, others visualize mandalas or deities, and others directly try to cultivate a mental void. Tantriks seek for the aid of goddess Kundalini, it is She who brings them to that state with Her power.
It is very difficult to arrive there, to me it is the most difficult thing to achieve for a human being. It might take decades to success.
Greets!
You have to let your mind repose until it disappears, and that what remains is pure consciousness.
That sounds like your ego disappearing, which I believe I read is the delta state of the brainwaves (1-4hz per second).
Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.
PJ – do you have an eeg or something to help you confirm when you or someone you are observing has hit the point you’re looking for? If not, you might not find what you’re looking for by returning to those numbers.
I hope you enjoy a peaceful and centering meditative practice.
Namaste PJ2001,
Contrary to popular belief in the West, meditation is not something you do, it is something that will happen to you after you have diligently and persistently employ certain meditation techniques. I have described the four most important techniques here:
http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f20/meditation-yoga-vs-zen-1693.html
I don’t have the necessary background or knowledge to comment on the
workings of brainwaves etc. What I can tell you is that while you feel that you are “disappearing” at the same time you feel more conscious and aware. It is difficult to explain, I think it is something one needs to experience.
Ok, you’ve aroused my interest, Pandara…
What would you recommend for the amatuer as to how to get started - then going up to the advanced?
[quote=panoramix;14998]Personally i don’t believe mind could just be electric brain waves… I align with the tantric schema of 36 tatvas, in which mind is a highly subtle prana from which lower ones are issued.
To me the brain is the link between mind and physical world.[/quote]
Very good observation.
Yeah I second that, Hubert.
Erm, what exactly is “the tantric schema of 36 tatvas”?
It is the very tantrik cosmology. An schema explaining the evolution of consciousness into universe… from pure non manifested consciousness to earth element.
Hi PJ2001,
I follow the breath and alternate it on certain days with mantra. Following the breath is most probably the easiest technique for a beginner.
[I]“Blooming of a Lotus” by Thich Nhat Han, [/I]is a beautiful book with simple, clear and good explanations on how to start your meditation practice and it explains the techniques very well.
Then it is a question of persistence, patience and preserverance. (My own Three P’s).
What you will experience, well that depends entirely on you and what you need to experience will come to you via your meditation.
[B]Just a few thoughts on the 36 Tattvas:[/B]
The number or Tattvas actually varies depending on which Buddhist/Hindu school or thought you follow. The Tattvas forms the basis of ALL our experiences. The Tattvas concerns itself with the duality of our existence and as such Purusha (the limited individual) and Prakriti (your spiritual nature) forms the aspects of your experience of this duality. The Tattvas are therefore inclusive of awareness or consciousness as well as material existence.
There are three main Tattvas (I describe the Shaivism Tattvas here, although I foloow myself the 25 Tattvas of Shamkaya):
• The first five tattvas (1-5) are known as the [I]shuddha[/I] or ‘pure’ tattvas. They explain our universal experience.
• The next seven tattvas (6–12) are known as the [I]shuddha-ashuddha[/I] or ‘pure-impure’ tattvas. They explain your limited individual experiences.
• The last twenty-four tattvas (13–36) are known as the [I]ashuddha[/I] or ‘impure’ tattvas. The first of these is prakriti and they include the tattvas of mental operation, sensible experience and materiality.
The Tattvas is such a complex and vast system I wouldn’t recommend it for a beginner on the spiritual path or in meditation. This is an aspect that you may want to explore only much later when you are more experienced and under good guidence by a teacher.
Good luck with your endeavour.
meditation means many things to many people, fisrt we need to know exactly why we wanna do medidation…
like i always say its a state of mind, we need to use our mind the resolve our future problems and pass trought every bad rotine day…
there is always a focus…
I have noticed that the less I know about a subject, the more confident I feel
and the more light I throw upon it.
Mark TwainHi,
If you’re serious i would go here and try their “deep meditation” practice out. I don’t really practice it anymore(other than as a test) as i don’t follow the AYP system any more.I follow another system and any useful adjuncts i can find to tie onto that in my sadhana. But this particular practice pretty much the same as transcendental meditation i believe ( the only difference being that their choice of silent mantras are universal and progressive,i.e staged, the procedure is the same) should cultivate a transcendental state in the consiousness of most people and likely within about 3 days of practice, (though perhaps up to a week if you are say insensitiive) and will create the delta and theta and alpha waves. Most people are often stuck on the beta or unfortanutely high-beta because of stress, demands of an unnatural modern lifestyle and/or illhealth.
It may not work for everyone long-term but that is part of the joy and interest of deepening in one’s yoga explorations…finding what may work or may not long-term or shorter-term, what one may need and benefit from right now or not so much etc.
You don’t need to follow a rigid system but if you’re new to yoga’s possiblities it helps to start out. Otherwise you’re flying without maps uncharted and doubt and confusion can arise. I still have some questions over the appropriateness of combiningg some yogas with others in particular say deep mantra yoga with say kundalin yoga.I think you have to be the guinea pig, do the research and test the waters yourself. but if you’re just starting to explore the deeper aspects of yoga, and it’s a marathon or tour de france, not a sprint, then either stick with a method within a system and then take it from there. Remember that less is more in yoga. Find a method that works alright for you and have the patience and stamina to stick with it rain or shine.Results come if we are patient and are willing to do the work…It gets easier We get more confident, more independent of system or school or ways of thinking as we try out what works or what perhaps does’nt whatever that point may be. Also if you stick rigidly to the monolith of any system one needs to courage to break free from any system if the expectant results are not forthcoming. You simply need the ability to enquire and experiement for yourself and not take other people’s word for something. You really need to become an independent thinker tied to no-one permanently. Like a voyager in an unknown frontier… You have the maps, you make the choices and you learn as you go along…
This particular method or technique facilitates deep meditation very quickly and effectively…Why is it soo effective and quick?.. because… … well you’d be best to find that out for yourself through experience.It actually alters the neurology of the brain through sound waves and facilitates pratyahara very easily.
P.S This is where my intial doubts arose and they still persist about combining this particular practice with using third-eye or other chakra exercises . This is probably why i have heard it said and suggested in other systems that waking up kundalin first then doing this type of meditation afterwards may well be prescribed in that order if one wishes to do that… There is not one correct way , just different apporaches that may work better for different people.But You learn from them all.The AYP system starts you off with deep meditation so one can get deep and profound first-hand insight & experience into the subtle terrain of the inner domain right off the bat.
And btw The approach i follow right now is somehwat different from the AYP approach.It’s hard to explain but it seems like you’re doing less and working on more micro-cosmic levels but I think the results may well be more predictable in most people.But you need to get a grip with the subtle domain and how the nervous system operates, how to detect prana, or obstructions as they are freed and removed, notice the cues and use these as navigational aids…they help you navigate. i think in AYP they could have a lesson on navigation…or what to observe within the inner domain…the cues!!! how the prana should be moving…in a balanced way. they’e got much correct however and very informative & helpful i found…they just say do the practices and all wil be well.but from my own pexerience if you come with any serious imbalance or complications then you may need to rely on inner wisdom and more tools or try out othe systems as i have done.All for more learning I suppose.It just depends. Try it and see what happens.
The system i’m using works more on the micro-level whereas the AYP relies more on global purifiers and more on letting go, you could say the bhakti yoga element.But all the letting go in the world may not work for some people or they may encounter road-blocks along the way…it may require a more tailiored individualised approoach that better adressses known and significant specific blockages in the subtle body,chakras etc… It’s a matter of try and see. You want a balancced and open third-eye and adequate balance in ida and pingala and this may be one of the achilles heel of this particular system, not to dish systems but just being critical. WEverye system has it’s weaknesses. The strength of that particular system is the meditation component,doability, beginner-friendliness and the efficiacy of the practices for most people amongst other things. I have nothing though but praise for AYP and the opensourced online acessible nature of this full -scope yoga system.It would be hard to learn this stuff quickly short of having some kind of guru or teacher or being a natural intuitive and primed for it or someone that had literally spent many years indeed trying to learn it themself as some perhaps do take this path…
How does one go into deep meditation?
Unaware.
I don’t post here as much as i used to but that’s my two cents.
You need the experience.Otherwise it’s just small talk i.e relatively mindless chit-chat, or simply hot air; i.e people chasing their tails in endless intellectual run-arounds.