I do not have a problem. I am saying that there is no absolute way of looking at things, whether it is “traditional” or otherwise.
“which by themselves - they are impotent, but when impregnated with a certain power, become tools for transformation.” YES!!!
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;59181]I do not have a problem. I am saying that there is no absolute way of looking at things, whether it is “traditional” or otherwise.[/QUOTE]
This doesn’t have anything to do with what Scales/S is talking about. Its a matter of authenticity; if you are going to talk about a book/scripture, you use the right translations. Simple.
Okay, allow your Surya Deva to shine some light on this topic:
First of all I will address Amir’s point of view who is fond of talking about how different traditions say different things on the chakras. Well, sure, but the original tradition carries more weight and credibility. What is the original traditions of chakras - you guessed it: Hinduism. The oldest source we have is the Upanishads, like Yoga-Kundalini upanishad. All other traditions come later. I consider all new-age material, Kabbalah, Tai Chi, Christian Gnosticism as secondary, at the most just supplementary. As they did not independently develop these system and learned it from contact with India, their versions are likely to have errors in it. I am sticking with the original primary sources.
Secondly, you’re all wrong about the location of the chakras 
If the chakras had a location in and space we would have detected them by now. We have been able to go the level of fermions for petes sake and still we have not found chakras. This is why scientists do not take chakras seriously. Charakas are metaphysical, they are not physical, they are not in time and space, therefore they have no location. Trying to locate a chakra is as pointless as trying to find out what face you had before you were born 
According to Yoga chakras exist in the akasha as pranic transformers not actually in the physical body itself. A chakra is nothing more than a plexus of nadis and the nadis are also in the akasha. You cannot see a chakra because they are not objects that can be seen and therefore they have no colour. All colours we assign to them are purely symbolic. Now that it is established chakras have no location in the body we can look at the effects of chakras. The effects of chakras are visible to us in the endrocine system and the nervous system. The glands of the endocrine system correspond quite neatly to the chakras and their respective functions. In fact for most people the metaphysical truth of the chakras should not be important because they do not correspond to our dimension of reality, what is important is the physical manifestations of them in the endocrine and nervous system. Hatha/Kundalini Yoga is after all a physical process and it is stimulating physical glands not metaphysical glands.
Chakras are part of the subtle body and indeed cannot be viewed with the naked eye. Kundalini is mahashakti, trying to find her through dissecting a corpse is as silly as trying to find paramatma dissecting the heart muscle. (ishwara sarva bhutanam hrideshe arjuna tishtati brahmayan sarva bhutani yantra rudhani mayaya)
There was once a yogi who was a little dull minded. He found a corpse in the ganges and started dissecting it to find the chakras. After dissecting the body, he was unable to find the chakras. He lost his faith in hatha yoga and threw the pages of the Hatha Yoga Pradipika in the Ganges.
Well, sure, but the original tradition carries more weight and credibility. What is the original traditions of chakras - you guessed it: Hinduism. The oldest source we have is the Upanishads
This is simply a blind stereotype, that something is more authentic and credible because it is more ancient. This is usually done by people who are simply seeking to give their beliefs a certain seal of approval, of which nothing can be better other then an ancient seal of approval. Something is not right or wrong on the basis of its age, but on the basis of its truth, time is not really relevant - a truth is always timeless. Even if a most ancient scripture has made an observation - it can be confirmed again and and again. But in so many traditions - there are so many different perspectives on the matter, as many perspectives as there are individuals.
Something that is essential to understand is that what is important in the spiritual process is not what is true or not true, but whether something is effective or ineffective. You can think of these chakras in whatever way that you want - but the fact remains that through concentration upon the chakras, certain effects follow. Whether there are 72,000 nadis or 300,000 nadis, the rest is all irrelevant.
All colours we assign to them are purely symbolic
Different traditions will disagree with this, although I prefer to see it in that way for the simple reason that you can choose whatever model you want - whether Ajna is orange or indigo, and find that both work just as well. Whether you are chanting in Sanskrit or chanting in Hebrew, then too you will find that - whether there is a certain inner atmosphere, they work just as well. But there are traditions which have declared that the correspondences to the chakras are objective facts, because the colors associated with the chakras, as well as their form, are not just symbolic. They were discovered in deep meditation through their inner vision. The same is the case with the mantras, they were never originally spoken. They were heard deep in meditation. And in fact there is a whole science in yoga, nada yoga, which explores into this dimension.
the chakras had a location in and space we would have detected them by now
If they did not have any correspondence to time or space, they would not even exist. Because other than the source of existence itself, there is nothing which is not of time and space. Time and space being relative, what may be one kind of time and one kind of space on one level of existence may be another type of time and another type of space on another level of existence, but still time and space have not disappeared.
This is simply a blind stereotype, that something is more authentic and credible because it is more ancient. This is usually done by people who are simply seeking to give their beliefs a certain seal of approval, of which nothing can be better other then an ancient seal of approval. Something is not right or wrong on the basis of it
s age, but on the basis of its truth, time is not really relevant - a truth is always timeless. Even if a most ancient scripture has made an observation - it can be confirmed again and and again. But in so many traditions - there are so many different perspectives on the matter, as many perspectives as there are individuals.
These other traditions you mention have second hard, third hand or fourth hand knowledge. They all learned their knowledge from contact with the Yoga tradition in India, they had no Yoga tradition of their own. So obviously they are not as credible and carry as much weight as the Yoga tradition
Yoga > Kabbalh + Sufism etc
These other traditions did not become as developed as Yoga because they were considered heresies in their societies. They were persecuted and driven out. On the other hand, Yoga was openly encouraged in India and was orthodox. Hence why Yoga developed to the level of a science in India, whereas in other parts of the world spiritual traditions did not get pass mysticism and mythology.
An intelligent person knows that one should learn directly from primary sources not secondary or tertiary sources. If Kabbalh and Sufism etc is as good as Yoga then where are their equivalent of the Yoga Sutras?
Different traditions will disagree with this, although I prefer to see it in that way for the simple reason that you can choose whatever model you want - whether Ajna is orange or indigo, and find that both work just as well. Whether you are chanting in Sanskrit or chanting in Hebrew, then too you will find that - whether there is a certain inner atmosphere, they work just as well. But there are traditions which have declared that the correspondences to the chakras are objective facts, because the colors associated with the chakras, as well as their form, are not just symbolic. They were discovered in deep meditation through their inner vision. The same is the case with the mantras, they were never originally spoken. They were heard deep in meditation. And in fact there is a whole science in yoga, nada yoga, which explores into this dimension.
While chakras do not have colours because colours are nothing more than electromagnetic radiation and electromagnetic radiation is a physical substance, they do have vibrational frequencies(Hence Nada yoga) and thus they have corresponding sounds. This is why if you chant the Sanskrit beej mantras they vibrate the part of the body where the chakra they correspond to is manifested. Like AUM will vibrate the ajana and Ham will vibrate the vishuda. These sounds have been carefuly observed by yogis to have scientific properties to vibrate the respective body. It is very similar to asanas and kriyas in Hatha Yoga, they stimulate parts of the body by stimulating physical glands etc, whereas Nada yoga vibrates the physical glands through sounds.
You cannot just use any sound. The sound has to be a certain frequency in order to vibrate the chakras. Hebrew sounds are not equivalent at all.
If they did not have any correspondence to time or space, they would not even exist. Because other than the source of existence itself, there is nothing which is not of time and space. Time and space being relative, what may be one kind of time and one kind of space on one level of existence may be another type of time and another type of space on another level of existence, but still time and space have not disappeared.
Space and time refers to only physical matter. It has no existence beyond physical matter. There is no space and time in the quantum world for example and this has been empirically proven by the test of the Bell inequalities.
The quantum is basically the akasha of Yoga where the nadis, chakras and prana currents flow. What we know to be quantum entanglements are basically pranic circuits. The body corresponds to very sophisticated pranic circuits, a level of sophisticated quantum physics will struggle to recreate for probably another century or two.
Surya,
These other traditions you mention have second hard, third hand or fourth hand knowledge. They all learned their knowledge from contact with the Yoga tradition
I was not speaking of those other traditions, I was speaking traditions within the yogic sciences themselves.
You think nose gazing might also help in the foundational stuff like family
http://www.adishakti.org/subtle_system/mooladhara_chakra.htm
http://www.sahajayoga.ca/Presentation/Mooladhara.html
[QUOTE=The Scales;59010]muldadhara chakra is [I]not[/I] in the area of the perinium.
It is not above the perinium a couple inches. It is Not in the uterus.
On the pelvic floor - it is to the rear of the perinium on the back wall of the anus. THIS IS THE SAME LOCATION FOR ALL HUMANS…
Pretty much directly above it - is the area of svadhistana and so on… up the royal road.
Even if this is incongruity is only off by a couple of inches it is way off and incorrect.
In baseball the difference between a foul ball and a home run can be millimeters.
This stuff is precise. Wishy washy or imprecision should not be allowed concerning this topic.[/QUOTE]
Yes we cannot afford to be not precise.
“Yes we cannot afford to be not precise”
Certainly some precision and one-pointedness is needed in the work of the expansion of consciousness. But if you mean by “precise” as in clinging to a certain one-sided understanding as to how things should be, then that is as far away from having any amount of clarity as possible. If you look in certain traditions, they will say that there are 72,000 nadis in the subtle body. If you look at other traditions, they will say that there are 300,000 nadis in the subtle body. Some will say that Ajna chakra is indigo, others will say that it is orange. Some will say that the three primary nadis - the ida, the sushumna, and the pingala, all originate frmo the manipura. Others will say that they originate from the muladahara. You have to understand that all of these various models have been created, not for you to grasp onto them as though they were absolutes, but just to help assist you in accessing your own inner dimension - they are methods for awakening different aspects of your own consciousness. Whether you are concentrating upon a mantra in Pali, or Sanskrit, or Prakrit, or Hebrew, that is not the essential phenomenon. What is essential is that you create a whole range of correspondences and associations in the mind. That is how a symbol - which means nothing in itself, suddenly becomes an instrument for transformation. The moment the mind creates a link between a symbol and an idea, now that symbol becomes a representative of that idea. So this whole system has come into being as an effort to assist you in awakening different aspects of the energy of your own consciousness. “Precision” as in having an attachment to a particular model, is not the kind of precision that is needed. What is needed is that whatever model you are using - you use it with a certain amount of dedication, one-pointedness of attention, and intensity.
just a small question…
ive been reading all this taoist stuff about squeezing this point bettween your anus and your scrotum to promote health and keep your semen in and awaken your kundalini and so on…
my question is
how do i go about combing it with asanas?
specifically
should i hold it on the breath in or the breath out? or just hold it all the time?
if i sit and watch a movie should i just clench it constantly or pulsate it???
thankyou
subalster,
There are various mudras and bandhas which are intended for the purpose of stimulating the muladhara chakra and bringing various life energies into it. These are ordinarily to be practiced during sitting pranayam, not during asana. In fact, they were designed to be practiced in a sitting posture. It should be important to remember that most of the various asanas that you have today are just inventions at a much later time, originally the word “asana” simply referred to the seat in which the yogi would be sitting - either for pranayam or for meditation. There are various specific sequences of breathing techniques which are to be practiced combined of followed with mudras and bandhas, which are for the purpose of awakening kundalini.
I think It is a hard process …
[QUOTE=AmirMourad;59165]raman,
“without cleaning yourself you can not attain samadhi, and so you can not awaken your kundali power.”
That is simply the borrowed nonsense that you have imported into your mind. If you were speaking out of one’s own scientific exploration, you would not have said such a thing. If you mean by “cleaning yourself” the practice of purification of the body through kriyas, then it is not really the case. One can experience samadhi without all of those techniques of purification of the body. All of those methods were just created as aids to help the transition into meditation. One can sit immediately for meditation without all of those preperations - but one will have to deal with the same obstacles directly through the mind without the aid of the body.
As far as samadhi is concerned, it may be almost impossible to believe, but the average person has already experienced samadhi several times before - although they may not have been aware of it in the moment because they were not alert. If you are sitting in a resteraunt and a waiter walks by and drops the plates - shattering them, just from the shock for a brief moment or two, the activity of the mind has come to a cessation, and you are in a state of pure consciousness. Or, if you are entering into a forest, and you think you are safe and secluded, and suddenly you become attacked by a wild animal - again, just briefly, just from the shock the activity of the mind has become still - and you are in a state of pure awareness. Like this, there are many instances where samadhi does arise, although one fails to recognize it because one is not paying attention. Usually it happens when one is shocked spontaneously - because in such moments the mind breaks free of it’s ordinary habitual patterns. That is why in Zen, the master will strike the disciple at the right moment with the right understanding. It is not out of violence - it is to bring into your perception the same experience, and experiments have shown that millions of disciples have become enlightened through such methods.
As far as awakening of Kundalini is concerned, there are many ways besides just kriyas - some of which involve methods which are even more dangerous than the ones which are ordinarily practiced. And sometimes, without any practice, one can experience a Kundalini awakening - although it is a rare event.
Drop all of this dogmatism as to how things should be done. In the spiritual sciences, there are as many different methods and approaches as one can conceive, all a finger pointing to the moon.[/QUOTE]
What you say about the zen that the teacher hits you is to make you come back to now and not daydreaming which is common to most people.
Why do they make you come back to now? because to cease the mind from making mental movies and imagination. As we all have read from patanjali moksha/nirvana happens when there is no mindactivity no vrittis. So to reach there we need to stop our mind to make mental movies. If you meditate you will be able to stop your mind but the rest of the day you let your mind run wild. So this is the reason for being in the now. to cease the mind to overpower you. and eventually we might reach the destination.
When you say millions have been enligthened im intrested of knowing in which era/yuga you are meaning? Why didnt we hear of it? Millions getting self realized is a very big thing.
its not the anus… its the perineum area… search about that thats a great key
[QUOTE=fakeyogis;74693]What you say about the zen that the teacher hits you is to make you come back to now and not daydreaming which is common to most people.
Why do they make you come back to now? because to cease the mind from making mental movies and imagination. As we all have read from patanjali moksha/nirvana happens when there is no mindactivity no vrittis. So to reach there we need to stop our mind to make mental movies. If you meditate you will be able to stop your mind but the rest of the day you let your mind run wild. So this is the reason for being in the now. to cease the mind to overpower you. and eventually we might reach the destination.
.[/QUOTE]
yes that hits that master gives you is normal in traditional and original guru-chela traditions, most ocidental people thinks ‘oriental spirituality’ is ‘cool’ , is ‘nice’, is like ‘hippies dream’ … WAKE UP !:evil: , its nothing like that… probabily if you find any guru/master that treat you like a “teenager lover” probabily he only wants your money or have nothing else to say to you as obvious setences as ‘life is beautiful’, ‘need to love everyone’ thats just to bootlick no real wisdon =p… true master will be very hard to handle, thats the best eficient way… I saw may westerns come to india and be disapointed to guru because real guru is very rigourous and ‘heavy’ , 'guru need to be heavy to lead into maya samsaras ocean"… some powerfull master can also teach into silence, only tru exemples… thats real too
but if your master is more like a ‘teenager love’ … probabily hes fake…
Regarding the location of the chakras, the above discussion would benefit by considering the arohan and awarohan psychic passages in the body as described in Kundalini Tantra by Swami Satyananda Saraswati
