When I initially started yoga, I practised intensively and the teacher constantly helped by pressing down my back as I do my sitted forward bends. But once I stop practising faithfully, I become less flexible, and now I can’t do my forward bend properly again.
Now that I have left that teacher, I can no longer rely on anyone to press my back down to help me improve. If I do forward bend by myself regularly, will I eventually gain the flexibility again?
Yes, if you practice regularly (e.g. 3 ? 4 times per week) you will reap the benefits of yoga, including strength, flexibility and stamina.
Personally, I?m not at all in favor of teacher adjustments like pressing down on your back. There is just too much risk involved for your lower back and hamstrings. In my opinion, verbal adjustment and gentle touch to increase awareness is best. Anything beyond that could easily become harmful in unskilful hands.
Are you sure that you are lacking flexibility? Where do you feel the forwards bends in your body? In your hamstrings? In your lower back? If these are tight, try repetitions of parsvottanasana and trikonasana. On the other hand, you may be lacking strength in your psoas or rectus femorus. In this case, try lifiting your knee to your nose in cat pose repeatedly and practice dandasana and urdhva prasarita padasana. Over time you sitting forward bends will improve.
[U]‘ashtanga’ yoga leads naturally to increased flexibility- yip, you gotcha![/U]
Unless the changes occur in your nervous system no amount of putting or pushiing one limb one way or another will make much difference, or at least much beyond mere coaxing and teasing.
That is why mindful asana when practiced with all the other limbs is most effective( for flexibility)…Unfortunately there is little guidance about how to intergate all the limbs and tools avaiable together in your yoga and your life to excercise this approach.
Mindless asana can be quite harmful. I’ve been there and it took me a few years to arrive at the conclusion that it is the nervous sytem where the changes need made.For this reason asana on it’s won may not deliver.You need other tools ,preferably effective ones .
Pushing and pulling can make muscles tighter- it belive it’s called the myotatic reflex. If the movment is initiated with awareness then that is different matter.Externally it’s pretty hard to meausre.
Adjustments in a yoga class is clearly an art and skill ,bold ones left to a fairly senior asana teacher.Adjustment iis coaxing and nudging in the right direction.But it is [U]your [/U]nervous sytem that does the real work.It’s amazing how many folk don’t seem to get this- i was one of them for quite some time wheni was intorduced to yoga.Merely excercising a muscle to push a bone one way does’nt usually work.This is where pranayam and meditative technqiues come in,when practicsed alongisde asana with balnced living and a reasonable sense of who you think you are(and your relationships) come to the rescue. I feel for most people this whole approach(ashtanga yoga, and i don’t mean patthabi jois )is a bit too radical.But i guess any entry point is such and the deeper we go within this vast territory the more progress we may begin to make.
Iused to think thesame as you- that wee need people outside of ourselves- to make changs- --yes i htink we do, but they cannot do your yoga for you.
Is it your motvation that is the stumbling block or is it asana (or both)?
And how loong have you practised asana?
If the mind is like an unruly elephant and the pranic body an angry snake then doing trikonasana or bend one lge over th other- asana, unless we have balnced mind and breath ,and open subtle and physical nerves, then attaining the goal of increased flexibility may be quite elusive and ephemeral.
In short-- try some other tools.A tool box just with asana in it is inadequateespecially if the horizon never seems to draw any closer.
In effective yoga—less is more ,and that applies to our effort and our applications.practice all 8 limbs-then try asana-your body and mind should be more open-you might be pleasantly suprised.I feel the first two limbs are imperative.
this is my take on it.
the first two limbs will help to dissolve your karma and can apraoched through altering the frequency of your consciousness and the energetic vibrations you are sending out throough what you internalise.
i’m sure you’ll find a compassionate loving teacher who can guide you best to work through all these kinds of issues.
[QUOTE=yogini_spirit;19986]When I initially started yoga, I practised intensively and the teacher constantly helped by pressing down my back as I do my sitted forward bends. But once I stop practising faithfully, I become less flexible, and now I can’t do my forward bend properly again.
Now that I have left that teacher, I can no longer rely on anyone to press my back down to help me improve. If I do forward bend by myself regularly, will I eventually gain the flexibility again?[/QUOTE]guess the answer to that question depends on how you do them? will they be done with a tense mind about getting there or a mind that is quieter so you can feel where you are at?
Personally, If someone wants a deeper foreword bend, I dont press directly down on the back, I press from behind right above the waist on the exhalation. A direct press could cause issues . But one thing I have indvduals do is after they intially move into the forword bend and have a hold of the toes, ankles or calves. I’ll have them look up towords the ceiling, extending the spine, lengthening the back and then, once agian fold down into the stretch. The fold happineing at the waist. The spine long.
ultimately it doesn’t matter. How far you can bend has nothing to do with if you are a good person or not. Just work with the pose in the present moment. Forget about what you used to could do.
Hello YS,
Wouldn’t it be nice if people answered the questions we asked rather than the ones they want us to ask? Unfortunately life simply does not work that way.
It seems your question is about the physical body in asana. So I’ll try to answer that query.
Forward bends mandate that the physical body have open hamstrings, that the student understand retention of length in the front body, and a mobility in the pelvis to tip such that the spine can flow with, rather than against the pose.
While it is quite sad that any well trained yoga teacher could look past obvious anatomical principles and press on a student’s back body in a seated forward bend (where the student’s body has no out as it would in a standing forward bend) it sounds as though you’ve escaped unharmed. It is completely inappropriate, when the well being of the student is in the forebrain of the teacher, to press on the back in a seated forward bend. Not only can this tear the hamstring at its attachment but it can also lead to herniated discs.
Work your hamstrings properly in Supta Padangusthasana and work the length of the frontal spine using Janu Sirsasana at the wall, holding a wall rope in both hands.
gordon
Okay, perhaps I should rephrase. I’m not good with using words to describe the body. When I said he pressed my “back”, I’m refering to a position whereby he can skillfully press me down without hurting me. This is a teacher who has been doing yoga for over 10 years, and he does help his student by pulling, pressing and pushing our body unhurt ( so far so good). Yes he sort of push my lower spine, he also did ask me to look up and then push from behind. I admit though, that at times, I find it torturing. But so far, I was allright, and find that with his adjustment, I improved very quickly within a short period of time - I could touch my head on my shinbow within half a year.
After I practise without him, i could never touch my head on my shinbow again. Infact, nowadays I find that the back of my knee (i guess it is called hamstring) is very tight. I can’t do a proper forward bend without feeling the strain of it. How i wish there’s someone who can push me down my back so that i can bend forward better!
So judging from all these poses, which some of it I dont understand, can I just safely say that what you all are trying to say is this : Mental state is more important than physical state?
It’s like hypnotising myself, telling myself that I can do a forward bend, and eventually I can achieve it? And I don’t need a teacher to push me or adjust me, I can do all these poses perfectly so long as i practise faithfully??
I do believe the adjustments and assists can be done safely. The problem happens when they force you into postures. There is a fine line and many people are overly cautious now because they don’t really understand that line.
Your body will slowly open up if you practice the forward bend 3-6 days a week. Trust me on that. Yes, you can progress a little faster with a teacher but hey, if there isn’t one around, what can you do? You just have to be okay with that and just practice anyway.
A choir friend of mine once said, “‘Practice makes perfect’ depends on what you practice. Really, practice just makes permanent”.
Teacher or not, the keys in progress (and this includes asana) are dedication, self observation, and form that is sensitive to your personal anatomy. The presence of even a very good teacher will not make up for a severe lack in one of those, though we count on teachers to provide that third one.
Did your teacher give you verbal adjustments, too? I’m curious mostly because I hope for you that you are not focusing on a more tactile or memorable adjustment to the exclusion of other instruction that will help you on your way.
Yogini, I once had a teacher who assisted as well in postures, however I do not attach myself to the results I obtained when being assistaed, of course two makes greater then one.
YS,
I want to be very clear here.
-Your description was perfectly fine.
-assisting or adjusting a student, especially when the teacher is well trained and has cultivated a relationship with the student, that too is fine, perhaps even necessary.
pressing on the spine in a seated forward bend is simply not an appropriate adjustment. Others are. That one is not, for reasons already cited.
just because something is old that does not make it good. Just because war has been around for centuries does not make it “sound”, “desirable”, “wise”, or “okay”. The yoga tool to cultivate in this regard is discernment.
if you have a relationship of trust with your teacher then it is perhaps prudent to pose your original question to that person in whom you have entrusted your well being.
there is no “hypnotizing” being suggested. What aligns with the philosophy of yoga is to examine the self and look at one’s attachments and one’s aversions. More specifically, why is this student attached to performance and doing and can that be released (in the moment and/or over time) in order to embrace only the experience for exploration and discovery of the Self. If you are attached to the doing then you are attached to the doing. It is not a light switch. Ergo it mandates processing through yoga. And yet again, this is direction to be navigated by the student in relationship with the person they’ve chosen to teach them the art of yoga.
Thank you for correcting. Even when I do make and adjustment into foreword bend such as pushing above the waist on either side of the spine, I only apply the slightest pressure and merely guide an individual towards where the bend should be originating from. I’ve never been much of an aggressive adjuster. And I don’t think we should be quick to condemn your teacher at all however. We don’t know his school of thought or have even EXPERIENCED what his adjustment entails.
[quote=lashannasmall;20068]
Your body will slowly open up if you practice the forward bend 3-6 days a week. Trust me on that. Yes, you can progress a little faster with a teacher but hey, if there isn’t one around, what can you do? You just have to be okay with that and just practice anyway.[/quote]
I agree that it’s going to lie a lot in patience. The body stiffens, with weather, age, lifestyle choices, stress, ect. For the longest time I was very critical of myself because in my teen years hanumanasana use to come so easy. Few years later, a child, latent practice, and I could no more think of doing the posture than do it. I can do the posture today simply because I had accepted I might not ever be able to do the asana. There for I felt less pressure and was able to work on the asana free of worry.
Take a break from the posture for a bit maybe. In a week or two attempt the posture again only after riding yourself of expectations. Hold the posture for a longer period of time at a 70% effort level and gradually allow yourself to RELAX into the posture. Practice 3-6 days a week holding the posture steady.
And please remember…
The best yogi in the room is not the one with the deepest foreword bend but the one that knows there limits and is content with them.
[quote=yogini_spirit;20066]So judging from all these poses, which some of it I dont understand, can I just safely say that what you all are trying to say is this : Mental state is more important than physical state?
It’s like hypnotising myself, telling myself that I can do a forward bend, and eventually I can achieve it? And I don’t need a teacher to push me or adjust me, I can do all these poses perfectly so long as i practise faithfully??[/quote]
Mind is master,king.
And skillful adjustments can be nice( i know what you mean YS), and can develop an intimacy and effectivness between student and teacher.
It demonstrates the teacher is very much involved wih the student even if gentle nudges , cues and touches especially are all that is generally required.
In Purna Yoga ™ the mind is merely a servant. It is the heart that is the guide and the vital and mental forces are brought there for transformation so that the student can move forward toward their life’s purpose, free of the agenda put forth by mental and vital.
[QUOTE=lashannasmall;20026]ultimately it doesn’t matter. How far you can bend has nothing to do with if you are a good person or not. Just work with the pose in the present moment. Forget about what you used to could do.[/QUOTE]
[I]I wish I had the body for good pretzel
And perhaps add some outstanding balance too
For this I know could give me star capital
On the Yoga walk of fame
But when I listen to my inner self
She says, "Wait!
Seek the still cautious posture
And the steady belly breath
And not the goal of pretzel mastery,
(yet the right form is a constant)
Listen to the calmness of your mind
And one step at a time
Listen to the posture so divine!"[/I]
I find that many of you here are speaking in terms which I cannot comprehend.I think many of u here have studied yoga for a long time and u have the wealth of the knowledge to share with me,which unfortunately sometimes I cannot understand.
Essentially I’m just asking a very simple question : Can I eventually touch my head on my shinbow if I regularly do forward bends? (without any teacher aid)
So pls, answer in the simplest form u may to my question. Thank u so much,
What is the english term for trikonasana ,dandasana , urdhva prasarita padasana and parsvottanasana ?
Btw, is there any website where I can learn how to pronounce these posture names in sanskrit?
I always have a huge curiosity about the pose which requres us to touch our knees to our nose while doing cat pose. What is the advantage of doing this? To me, it’s so difficult to touch !