having a hard time with this so I thought I would post on it, I understand this may take a lifetime to understand. I am the observer “seer” I am not my body or my mind, things like that I dont really grasp. I will post the sutra about it when I look it up. any thoughts?
if I am not my body or mind, what am I.
on the ride, searching
seeker
To realize you are neither body, nor mind, you must transcend them. They must be put where they belong, in the toolbox. How it is done ? By a steady comfortable posture (asana) where you leave the body like you leave your luggage when you get on a plane. The pose must not require any effort or awarness. One must forget the body.
The great benefit of pranayama is to make you learn how prana and mind are one. When prana does not blow, but stops, even for a very short time, mind also stops. This cannot be done by effort, only by awarness, and by the emotional attitude of being fully content.
This last one is the hardest to achieve. But sometimes life just creates all the favorable circumstances and you are absorbed into the peace and the warmth of pure existence. These moments do not last for long, as we are drawn back to our duties, habits or small pleasures.
Dear Seeker,
I will use an analogy to explain how I see these aspects you refering to in your post. I see the brain as a computer, it consists of certain memory chips and other hardware to keep it running. It is the physical part. However, no computer can run and operate successfully without an operating system such as Windows XP or Windows Vista. The operating system which is unseen, is loaded into the memory of the computer (brain) and allowed to run the computer to a certain extent. The operating system is the mind for me, it is the higher aspect of us who runs the brain.
However, to maximise the usesage of a computer and its operating system, you need a user. The same with mind and brain. You need a user to operate and direct the commands. And this is where we need to to be the observer through meditation to realise who is the I am or Self behind it all. Who operates this computer and whi is giving the commands to the operating system to successfully work.
Tubeseeker,
I believe that what you speak of is the most important practice in one’s life. The only practice worth practicing, truly. It is also one of the hardest to grasp, because grasping and understanding is done primarily with the mind, while the exercise’s goal is to stop identifying with that very mind. That’s why I say: Do not even try to understand, or you’ll miss the benefit and goal of the exercise.
Think about it: Actually not trying to understand it. This is harder than it seems, because the mind will continue to interpretate and understanding what it experiences. Don’t.
I wil share my views, the below stated is all my opinion, experience, vision. Don’t take things personal.
[B]All you need to do is to observe indeed[/B]. Hubert’s way is a good one, but I’dd like to add the simple method of just observing the body and mind. Because by observing alone, you create that essential space between body/mind and consciousness.
[B]Every thing the eye can see, it is not: [/B]The eye can see an apple, the eye can see another human being, the eye can see hallucinations, but still, the eye is none of that and the very fact that the eye is capable of observing these things, proves that he is not the observed. [I]If you can be a witness to something, that means you are the witness and not that something.[/I] As you will know by now.
[B]Likewise, you can observe the body and you can observe the mind[/B] (thoughts, impressions, emotions, senses, etc). Therefore, you must be something else; you’re not the mind/body complex. Yogis, perhaps like yourself, often come to this point, but go no further. That’s because they say: “Ok, so I can observe the body and I can observe the mind, hence: I must be something else, I must be awareness.” Then they think they are taking the next step by asking themselves: But then what is awareness? They start trying to comprehend awareness/consicousness. This ain’t gonna work =). We get stuck.
If you are trying to comprehend what is behind the mind, you are doing so [U][I]with[/I][/U] the mind. Comprehending is the mind’s doing, hence you cannot find that transcendence you are looking for in the comprehension.
[B][U]What to do?[/U][/B] I suggest you stop trying to analyze whatever it is that you are, think to be, or think you are not, and just become the observer by observing. Observe the mind’s every action, impression, association, identification, comprehension, understanding etc etc etc. Whenever you feel a thought coming up and maybe a subtle emotion, or even a realization associated with it, like: “Ahh so this is how it works!” , [B][U]discard it immediately[/U][/B]. Even the realizations of insight are not you, neither do they add anything to you, or to the process of you experiencing you. Spiritual people are the most hypocrite people I know. Our/their eyes are blinded by their passion for spiritual realization to such degree that whenever they experience something that falls in their judgemental room, category: ‘spiritual’, they feel good about it. We/They then feel even more spiritual, we feel like we actually start to know ourselves! Hehe, the ego must be the best-****-designed blidfolding game ever to be created.
That’s why I say: Don’t be spiritual! Discard spirituality, discard the bliss, discard the highest stages of consicousness. They are all mental concepts! Yes, as soon as you think you have reached the highest level of consciousness, or just a higher level of consicousness, you are still just in the mind using mental concepts with spiritual names to them, categorizing your experience!
[B]To everything that comes, even to the bliss, be without interest:[/B] Want to become enlightened? Transcend the bliss; be without interest even to the most beautiful and most spiritual of experiences. Be without interest. Be mentally motionless so to say, be unable to tempt. Be non-attached to yoga, spirituality, finding your Self, understanding things…Because they are all children of the mind, nothing real. Anything that comes up, you should ignore, you should not care for. Also, don’t make a distinction for yourself between what the mind throws at you and what is real, there is no difference. All is fake.
[B]Everything that occurs, Everything that arises[/B], not just everything that arises in the mind, for that action is a flaw that will attach you to the mind again; but everything that arises, every form, thought-form, experience, concept, light, energy, bliss, realization, enlightenment, should be ignored! Then [I]all that is fake[/I] will cease because [I]you[/I] no longer care for anything. And then finally, and maybe you already saw the implication of freedom in the above sentence, Freedom will arise, because even enlightenment is ignored by YOU. If enlightenment is ignored by you, if everything is ignored by you, all that will remain, is you. And finally, there is the being of truth.
[I][U]True transcendental meditation[/U][/I] will then occur. Not just the floating on a mantra sound-vibration that has been called transcendental meditation by some people. That’s just superficial and has nothing to do with enlightenment or finding your true self. On the contrary; I think it keeps you ignorant and dumb. At the very beginning stages, yogis will like this, and it will come in handy for people. But it is merely a way of relaxing and freeing the mind of unnecessary activities. The egoistic mind just loves to take this for true transcendence, but soon it will notice, no profound freedom is gained and we are back wehere we were: suffering, blindfolded. IMO, what has been called TM-meditation (Transcendental Meditation) by many, has nothing to do with profound freedom or transcendence whatsoever. Sorry Maharishi ;), no offense. It is designed with good intentions I am sure, but it now functions to keep the yogis, we so eagerly need at this time in evolution, play endless mind-games. No aspect of life, of man-made concepts, has as much illusion and layers of clouds to it than spirituality; be aware, just don’t ever be spiritual.
And Seeker, please stop seeking, just observe ;).
Love and Luck,
Bentinho Massaro
so we come here to obeserve, not to be happy or sad, not to enjoy the experience, and then we leave?
I think we do yes, at least, that is the challenge. We may choose what we are here for, what we should do or not do, but the challenge is not to get lost in these dualities and distractions of happiness and sadness.
so we come here to obeserve, not to be happy or sad, not to enjoy the experience, and then we leave?
You put it quite bluntly, like it is a dissapointment, or unfulfilled. In that light, I have to correct my answer to your sentence. No, we are not here just to observe like that and then leave. Well, I think we are here to observe, just not like that. It doesn’t stop there. The feeling I got from your sentence was as if observing was all we should ever do and that nothing would change, we should just remain observing.
What happens when we keep observing, is that the mind will stop and your individual consciousness will transcend its personal identity. Then the bliss will arise, which is the bliss of the biddhic body, the individual soul. But if you remain uninterested even at that point and just keep on being/observing, Purusha/jivatman; the individual center of Consciousness, which lies beyond the buddhic level of the soul, will transcend even the buddhic body/layer. At that point, Purusha, you, will merge into its own center, and finally be in truth, not clouded by bliss. Out of this, true bliss and love arises, but they remain deviates, products, results, distortions kinda, of truth.
First there is One (truth), out of this arises love, bliss and free will. But all three of them are not truth, they accompany truth. But the One is what life is all about. Then, once it is found, we can express our love, free will and bliss freely, for we are unshakable and have found that infinity within our consciousness. But before we have found that One and Final Truth, we must be wary of bliss, and love, and free will, for our concepts of them are distorted and intertwined with the mind/ego. That is the reason why I say: For the sake of your spiritual progress, remain ever alert, observe, and be aware of all feelings and experiences spiritual in nature or not. Discard it all in order to find this Truth, then your love, bliss and free will will be pure. Don’t fool around with them before you know the truth behind them. Because you can be easily deluded by these terms untill you do.
Love and Light,
B.
thank you for your insights, maybe I will put it in terms you do not like, but this “concept” that you speak of makes more sense.
we find someone we think we “love” and get blinded only to realize one day we did not “love” them or our concept of loving them was tainted. When we get a higher understanding of truer love our capability to love grows and we may not get so broken hearted by the choices the one we love makes because as the observer we will not take things personally but realize they make those decisions/choices because maybe they are hurting or have been hurt. I may make the effort to read your posts on the subject again, unless my laziness gets in the way. I do think your last post clarifies a lot of my concern that your first post left me with. But then again I should not hang on your words only observe them, something like that
Thanks again for your time B.
seeker/observer/me;)
Hahaha you go boy, 
Indeed, the thing about loving others, indeed :).
B.
I believe in unconditional love. The intellectual (jnana yoga) path what Bentinho explains leads also to this, but I am absolutley sure it is not suitable for anyone. We are not all alike. Speaking in jungian terms, I, for example am an intuitive-emotional introverted type. I do not know how Bentinho is, but I guess he is one in who intellect and reason are dominant, probably introverted also. Jnana yoga, the yoga of knowledge is suitable for such persons, but my path is bhakti yoga, the yoga of love, love for loves sake. I do not exclude that these are different stages of the journey though, even if I would like to believe they are parallel.
This yoga I can easily implement into my understanding of the judeo-christian cultural heritage I have, what is also based on the teaching of unconditional love. But this is so strongly connected to understanding that I am sure that jnana and bhaka are not separable. As I use reasoning for a ceirtan extent, I am sure Bentinho uses love in his path. (Too bad the word love is so … misunderstood 
)
hubert, all great yogis must be introverts
seeker
that has to be good, got confused half way and still not willing to give up. so many words. so many angles. there are many ways to go home . its like shopping, we must all think we have the best buy and i’m sure we have.
maybe the best way is to make it simple. the way to understand is to experience. everything else is just another story told by someone else. cherish the small pieces and one day the big picture will show up. only when we are humble then can we expect to see greatness. understanding just simply means that you know. it doesn’t mean that you know more.
how much do we need to know before we stop searching and start living? start practicing loving kindness - too much is never enough. peace -no more no less.
I Agree we came to observe. When we no longer close our eyes to the needs of this creation we can start to overcome our selfishness and selflessly and humble serve the world.
Is?nt that wonderfull?
Shanti
lars