Inability to keep the straight spine in Paschimottanasana

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Dear all, I would really appreciate your help with the following. Despite practicing yoga for several years, I still lack flexibility when sitting straight in Paschimottanasana.

It is strange though because generally I am very flexible and when folding in Paschimottanasana can easily lock my hands behind my feet while keeping my legs straight. However, even before starting to fold, when I simply try to sit straight, my lower back is not straight. No matter how much I try to straighten / curve it and no matter how father back I put my glutes, it still looks like this:

Paschimottanasana 1.jpg (with red markings)

Instead of looking like this:

Paschimottanasana 2.jpg (without red markings)

I can, however, keep my upper back straight easily.

Initially, I assumed that I simply lack hamstrings flexibility and need to keep on practicing. However, as my hamstrings are now relatively flexible (see above) I start wondering if it can be something else that I should address separately. I would really appreciate your thoughts on what can be a limiting factor and how to fix it.

BTW, I have the same problem with Upavistha Konasana.

Thank you very much!

#2

The pictures are helpful. Thank you.

Something to consider: Are your hamstrings really that flexible? Without seeing you I can’t say. I’ve had many first time, experienced students come into paschimottansana touching their toes, but with rounded backs. They thought their hamstrings were flexible. But what they were doing is taking the stretch into their back in their endeavor to reach their toes. To see if they truly are try this: Supta Padanghusthasana keeping one knee bent and then raise the other leg, keeping the knee straight and foot flexed. It should come to 90 degrees if your hamstrings are flexible. If it doesn’t, practice this several times per day. It’s one of the best to lengthen them.

Good luck!

#3

if you bend your knees can you get straight then?

could the problem be in your bone structure?

I can’t see the pics, it won’t let me click on them.

#4

So there are two poses here under discussion. The first is Dandasana. To determine hamstring opening for that pose it is more telling to do Supta Padangusthasana adhering to the three alignment principles; arm straight, raised leg straight, down leg straight. If in this way the raised leg is at/beyond 90? then it’s fair to say the student has enough hamstring opening for Dandasana. I’d not bend the down leg in the assessment.

For the second pose, Paschimotanasana, the raised leg would have to go well past the 90? mark to be particularly indicative of anything at all. And this assumes grasping the big toe rather than using a belt … but please begin with using a belt because it really sucks to tear a hamstring from the attachment.

#5

You’re absolutely right, this is Dandasana I’m talking about. I cannot maintain completely straight spine if my legs are also straight.

In Supta Padanghusthasana my leg passes 90 degrees angle and both legs are straight. I’m not sure, however, what is happening to my lower back at this moment.

By the way, I experimented with bending my knees in Dandasana and raising them (in other words, experimented with not keeping legs straight) and it did not help with rounded lower back at_all which is probably another reason to believe that hamstrings are likely not to be the problem. Or am I wrong?

So, the question is why my lower back is curved in Dandasana (is it hamstring or something else) and what would be the best way to address it.

Thank you very much!

#6

Place a folded blanket or foam pad under your sitting bones for seated poses.
Sitting on said prop should be done so that the pelvis tips forward. In other words, sit on just the front edge of the setup. This is required when the student’s sacrum is not mobile enough to be (at least) 90? to the floor in seated poses.

#7

InnerAthlete, thank you very much for a response! What is the optimal way to mobilize the sacrum?

#8

do you guys think that the core muscles might be the the problem? maybe taut psoas? or even some back muscles… maybe erector spinae… or may even lats?

btw, Inner Athlete, very cool new profile picture! something changed in your eyes… yoga works i guess;)

#9

I didn’t choose my words carefully enough so now I have to play catch up.

The sacrum itself should be mobilized, per se. Apologies. IN fact the sacrum only moves in three basic ways and this is appropriate.

What I should have said is that the pelvis needs to be mobilized such that the sacrum is (at least) 90? to the floor.

If that begs the same question of the optimal way to mobilize the pelvis such an answer may vary from person to person. Generally speaking it’s opening in the hamstrings, and release in the hip flexors in the front and quadratus lumborum in the back.

Is that what you were looking for?

#10

Thank you very much for taking time to write such a comprehensive answer!

I think this is exactly what I am looking for. Can you suggest any good way to distinguish between three potentially limiting elements (hamstrings, hip flexors and quadratus lumborum) to determine for sure which one causes the problem?

Intuitively I feel, however, that it is more likely to be quadratus lumborum as my hamstrings & hip flexors should be relatively well-stretched. But I can be wrong, of course. So, assuming it is quadratus lumborum that is lagging behind, what poses would you recommend to target it in the most efficient way? I suppose that the fact that one of these lagging behind calls for targeted approach if several years of regular practice didn’t resolve it in a balanced way…

Thanks a lot!

[QUOTE=InnerAthlete;85031]I didn’t choose my words carefully enough so now I have to play catch up.

The sacrum itself should be mobilized, per se. Apologies. IN fact the sacrum only moves in three basic ways and this is appropriate.

What I should have said is that the pelvis needs to be mobilized such that the sacrum is (at least) 90? to the floor.

If that begs the same question of the optimal way to mobilize the pelvis such an answer may vary from person to person. Generally speaking it’s opening in the hamstrings, and release in the hip flexors in the front and quadratus lumborum in the back.

Is that what you were looking for?[/QUOTE]

#11

You’re welcome. And note that I’m surely trying to say “The sacrum itself should NOT be mobilized” but have now had two goes at it and failed

Since we’re not talking about PT or the like, my suggestion to students is to engage the process of self-exploration. Ultimately that is the way “distinguishing” is revealed in yoga.

Further, rarely, if ever, just one thing in the body, as the complexities and synergies are so numerous. To isolate only one thing as “the cause” would be foolish.

#12

InnerAthlete,

Do you have any specific advice on how to approach this self-exploration and understand what exactly is causing this issue? Thanks!

#13

Assuming healthy curves in your spine it’s your hamstrings that would be in question.

Are you able, in Supta Padangusthasana, to keep all three limbs straight and take the raised leg past 90? while holding the big toe?

#14

Yes, I can. However, I’m not sure how my spinal curves look at the moment. It’s possible that I have the same problem as in Dandasana, but simply don’t notice it lying on a floor.

#15

If the down leg is down and both legs are straight, generally speaking there’s not much examination of your “spinal curves” required.

#16

Yes, they are straight. So, what does this test suggest about the reasons behind that lower back sticking out in Dandasana?

Thank you!

#17

“Suggest” is the key word. There are several possibilities - a reversed lumbar curve, a weakness in another muscle group, tension in yet another group, or a lack of action on the part of the student to tip an otherwise mobile pelvic.

#18

Here is my suggestion. You need to have good curve from L1-L5 . You can try to improve it but don’t force beyond certain point because each body type is different.
It will take few months but try using bolster as given below and each month you will see improvement in what you are seeking for.

#19

I certainly am no expert, but what does your lower back do in downward dog? Do you feel the lift and slight rotation of your hips upward? At first, I could never tilt my hips because I had little strength in my lower back muscles to do so. I can do it now, but it took awhile. Just a thought.

http://www.cnyhealingarts.com/2010/10/27/the-health-benefits-of-adho-mukha-svanasana-downward-facing-dog-pose/