Because in Hinduism, there is the hope of eternal life with the person intact, just as in Christianity, but I see no such hope in Buddhism.
I can’t even get an answer out of a Buddhist about it.
WELL Thomas you are inadvertently destroying Suryas argument throughout the thread that Buddhism is Hinduism…cheers Thomas.
You wont find many Buddhists on this site, because being here does not still the mind
it excites it and is something that goes right against Buddhist basic principles, foundations.
I am in agreement and I’m showing weakness by being here. What can I say except I am wrong and will have to leave here at some point.
I have the answers you want but will have to tell you a bit at a time as its complex and Im sure you may loose interest, eventually…if you want me to begin in bits, I will from Sogyal Rinpoche, Tibetan Buddhist from the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying
One day a young Buddhist on his journey home, came to the banks of a wide river. Staring hopelessly at the great obstacle in front of him , he pondered for hours on just how to cross such a wide barrier. Just as he was about to give up his pursuit to continue his journey he saw a great teacher on the other side of the river. The young Buddhist yells over to the teacher “Oh wise one , can you tell me how to get to the other side of this river”?
The teacher ponders for a moment* looks up and down the river and yells back “My son, you are on the other side” .
Why does it have to be complicated?
This is what I believe about it: We have a body and a soul. The body dies and the soul lives on as the SAME PERSON who died. The soul can go to either Heaven or Hell. Those souls in Heaven will know each other and be able to communicate with each other. My father on earth will be the same person in Heaven, though purified and not grouchy, and likewise for me, and we will remember our relationship. Some day there will be a resurrection, and we will be given new incorruptible bodies, that are somhow “spiritualized” and which will have powers we do not have now. Our greatest happiness, will be in the Beatific Vision, being able to “see” God as He is.
There’s more to it than this, and much that is unknown, and this concept will be rejected by those outside of Christiainity, but at least I can say what I believe.
Couldn’t a Buddhist give me a similar summary of life after death of the body from their perspective?
Core, first of all, I am not a Charlatan or con artist, I am not having you or anyone else on. I am being very serious. The inner Guru presents itself as a human etherial form for our minds satisfaction, so we can relate to it. Because Purusha is beyond the mind and cannot be seen or met.
Unlike all of you who know all sorts about Yoga, Hinduism, etc etc etc, I dont.
I have spent 40 years of my life working solely with the Ajna Chakra, thats all, thats it.
In 40 years, I have seen many many things in the Astral dimensions. The most profound was meeting the inner guru, at 29 ish. For about 18 Months. I was innocent and hadn’t got a clue who he was. I met him as I described. It took me years more to establish who he was that sat, everyday, between my brows or ahead of me. It was the most perfect part of my life and I would strongly recommend you look into this.
Thinking, having an opinion is nothing in comparison to experiencing. It took nothing more than innocently using the Ajna to find him. He is the communicator, the Guru representation for Purusha who is beyond mind.
Ajna means Command. it is also meaning the Command centre for the teacher, the inner Guru. Teachers are not silent, they guide, direct, you seem to think they just sit there doing nothing!
The inner Guru is there to teach you. AND when you have located him, he is there to show you visually your progress as well as telepathically.
[B]If you buy Ch’an meditation, translated by Charles Luk, Author .[/B]…you will find a clear explanation of what happens when the inner guru is active as a small person at the brow. It is a description given by a Master of Ch’an Buddhism, note…he does not tell you how to do it. He states all students should seek out the inner guru who resides inside the [B]red heart.[/B] This is a third eye chakra format, that I have described for you. Swirling red streaks intermingling with blackness, etc etc
He then goes on to say when you meet him and awaken him he will join you between your brow. He then says how your ego will defeat him and how other wrong practices will defeat him, he then says how to keep him with you and how he grows to human size on the purity of yourself. how he will at that point be supremely powerful for you and you in turn, spiritually will be, etc, etc…This is the [B]ONLY [/B]account I can find with that detail, buy it and read before you call me a con-artiste…but when you do buy it and read it, remember, I have given you the details which the Master does not tell you about. I expect there to be other references but I havnt found them…AS it is Buddhism I expect Hindus to know about it, so try to find out, do your own research if you think I am having you on xx
To save you time ask Surya Deva, in India, where there are many Gurus, Masters, to find out, ask the ones who specialise in Ajna practice perhaps.
By Flexis post Thomas can you see what he is gettng at…this Buddhist philosophy,
its clever, subtle, simple…I could go on.
[QUOTE=kareng;42487]By Flexis post Thomas can you see what he is gettng at…this Buddhist philosophy,
its clever, subtle, simple…I could go on.[/QUOTE]
It’s about as clear as mud to me.
All I’m getting from my questions about this are links to other sites and riddles.
Could you or any Buddhist tell me if YOU live on after you die?
Do you remember your earthly life? Would you be able to communicate with others who died and who you knew and would you somehow recognize each other?
Is there any continiuty of memory from this life to the after-death life?
What is the difference between Buddhism and Atheism?
Okay Thomas,I will tell you the Tibetan account.
I just wanted you to answer with your own beliefs in your own words. I want the “kareng account” and not the Teibetan one.
Fair questions, thomas. My belief taken from Roman Catholicism, our souls proceed to pergatory, then off to heaven or hell. This is reincarnation in many senses.
The question I sense you are really asking is, does accepting and adopting other spiritual ideas breach the number one commandment - [I]‘You shall have no other gods before Me.’ [/I] And, can you show me how I can live with that?
As corny as it sounds, the answers come from within. It’s solving your own riddle.
No, that’s not really the question I’m asking. I’m not asking whether I should or should not practice Buddhism, but whether the Buddhist believes he or she will live on in some way that is continuous and whether they are the same person after death.
Buddhism seems very depressing to me, because I can’t see much difference between what they believe and the atheist believes–that everything disolves at death and that’s it.
But…I’m willing to be educated differently, but I’m finding it frustrating that the Buddhists so far are not answering even the most basic questions I’ve asked.
First of all we can actually use our lives to prepare for death
Buddhists see life and death as one whole, where death is the beginning of another chapter of life. The whole of life and death is presented together is a series of of constantly changing transitional realities known as Bardos.
Bardos are junctures when the possibility of liberation, or enlightement is heightened
The Bardos are certain moments,that are much more powerful than others and much more charged with potential, when whatever you do has a crucial and far-reaching. effect.
The greatest and most charged of these moments, however, is the moment of death
So, from the Tibetan point of view, they divide our entire existence into four continuously linked realities
- Life
- Dying and Death
3.After Death
4.Rebirth
These are known as as the four Bardos:
1.the natural Bardo of life
2.The painful Bardo of dying - The luminous Bardo of Dharmata (Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being)
4.The Karmic Bardo of becoming
Back in mo…
[QUOTE=thomas;42490]I just wanted you to answer with your own beliefs in your own words. I want the “kareng account” and not the Teibetan one.[/QUOTE]
Well Thomas Im still learning Im afraid and I dont want to misguide you with a wrong account. Youve asked about specific things.
Start with what ive put, its from a Master, im cutting it for clarity.
Do you want more?
You have to familiarise yourself with the nature of mind in this lifetime.
This done through repeated Meditations
This to prepare yourself for recognizing the full extent of mind when it reveals itself spontaneously and powerfully at the moment of death.
Are you still you after you die? Do you remember your earthly existence? Do you live on eternally afterwards? Do you communicate with others who have done likewise?
[QUOTE=kareng;42494]Well Thomas Im still learning Im afraid and I dont want to misguide you with a wrong account. Youve asked about specific things.
Start with what ive put, its from a Master, im cutting it for clarity.
Do you want more?[/QUOTE]
I don’t understand anything of what you posted from the master. It’s all Greek to me.
I just wanted to know your personal opinions regarding my questions, but if you don’t want to share that, then I won’t persist in asking anymore.
[B]The position for Dying[/B]
Lay on right side, left hand on left thigh right hand under chin, finger closing right nostril, legs strethced out, slightly bent.
Why?
On right side of body are certain subtle channels that encourage the Karmic wind of delusion. So by laying on right side, closing right nostril, it blocks this channell of Karmic wind and facilitates the persons recognition of the luminosity when it dawns at death.
It also aids the consciousness to leave the body through the aperture at the crown of the head, as all other openings through which could leave are blocked. [B]Luminosity explained later
Death process has two main states…Outer dissolution and Inner
[/B]
[B]OUTER DISSOULUTION[/B]
At the point of death, the outer senses of the elements dissolve, (earth, water, wind, fire and space) the senses cease to function…if people are talking round your bed as your dying you will hear the sound but not understand the words, so ear function.is failing.
We look at an object in front of us and all we can see is its outline and no detail, so eye consciousness is failing, and same happens with smell, taste and touch. This ends the 1st phase of the dissolution process.
The elements earth, wind, water, fire, and space are outside BUT we have Earth, air, water, fire and space inside us. So, as we begin to die there is a definite process that occurs and this is it.
[B]Steps for Earth Element beginning to dissolve[/B]
Next, our body begins to loose all strength, we begin to feel like we are sinking underground or being crushed by a great weight., complexion fades, cheeks sink, dark stains appear on teeth, eyes hard to open or close, mind sinks into drowsiness after a few moments of agitated delirium.
The above is a sign that earth is moving to water and a secret sign appears in the mind of a shimmering mirage.
[B]Steps for Water Element beginning to Dissolve
[/B]
We begin to loose control of bodily fluids, can be discharge from eyes, appearing as tears but not, nose may run, mouth may dribble, incontinence, cant move tongue, eyes dry, lips drawn and bloodless, nostrils cave in, mind is hazy, frustrated, irritable and nervous…feelings of being swept awayby a huge river.
The water element is dissolving into fire. The secret sign is a vision of haze with swirling wisps of smoke.
[B]Steps of the Fire element beginning to dissolve.[/B]
Mouth and nose dry up completely. Warmth in body begins to seep away, from feet and hands towards the heart, perhaps a steamy heat risesfrom crown of head. Breath is coldcant drink or digest anything mind swings between clarity and confusion, the inner experience is like being consumed by flames.
The transition from fire to air has a secret sign…,shimmering red sparks dancing like firefly’s.
[B][B]Steps for Air element beginning to dissolve.[/B][/B]
Harder to breathe, air feels like its escaping through throat, panting, eyes roll upward. Intellect is dissolving, mind is bewildered, unaware of outside world, everything is a blur, our last feeling of contact with outside wrld is slipping away, we hallucinate, have visions, may see terrifying forms, dreadful moments of our lives are replayed. If we have led lives of compassion and we may experience bliss, heavenly visions and ‘meet’ loving friends or enlightened beings. For those who have had good lives there is peace at this point and not fear. A feeling inside is a great wind sweeping you away.
The air element is dissolving into consciousness. The secret sign is a vision of a flaming torch or lamp with a red glow.
Our in breaths continue to be more shallow and our out breaths longer. At this point our blood gathers and enters the ‘channel of life’ at the centre of the heart. Three drops of blood collect, one after the other causing three long, final out breaths, then, suddenly our breath stops. Just a slight warmth remains in the heart. All vital signs are gone, you are clinically certified dead…[B],BUT [/B]an internal process still continues. Estimation between last breathe and inner process ending is anything up to 20 mins
By learning the nature of your mind through meditation, you are able to note the secret signs as they appear and hold enough presence of understanding as all this happens, important for next stage…,
Do you want me to carry on anyone? I need a cup of tea…best is yet to come but I don’t want to bore you all…scary bits over now
next is inner dissolution
Thomas I cant just tell you what you want its complex, if I do youll be saying yeah buts all the way…stick with me if you want to know luv x
[B]INNER DISSOLUTION [/B]
This is where gross and subtle thoughts, states and emotions dissolve, four increasingly subtle levels of consciousness are encountered.
Here the process of death mirrors the process of conception. When our parents sperm and ovum unite, consciousness, impelled by its Karma, is drawn in.
When the fetus develops, our fathers essence, a nucleus that is described as white and blissful rests in the chakra at the crown of our head at the top of the central channel. The mothers essence is a nucleus red and hot four fingers width below the naval. It is from these two essences that the next phase of the dissolution evolve.
With the disappearance of wind that holds it there, the white essence descends towards the heart.
As an outer sign, there is an experience of whiteness like sky struck by moonlight.
As an inner sign our awareness becomes completely clear and all states caused by anger, 33 of them disappear.
This phase is known as the APPEARANCE.
Then the mothers essence begins to rise through the central channel and with the disappearance of wind, it stays there.
The outer sign is a redness like a sun shining in a pure sky.
As an inner sign, there arises a feeling of great bliss, all thoughts arising from desire, forty in all, cease to function
This stage is known as INCREASE.
When the red and white essence meet at the heart, a consciousness is enclosed between them, the experience is described like the meeting of sky and earth.
As an outer sign, we experience blackness, like an empty sky shrouded in darkness.
The inner sign is a state of mind free from thoughts The seven thought states resulting from ignorance and delusion are brought to an end.
This is as FULL ATTAINMENT
Then we become slightly conscious again, the ground luminosity dawns, like an immaculate sky, free of clouds.fog or mist.
The Dalai Lama says, “this consciousness is the innermost subtle mind” We call it Buddha nature, the real source of consciousness. This continuum of this mind lasts even through Buddhahood.
THE DEATH OF "THE POISONS"
what then is happening when we die? Its as if we are returning to our original state; everything dissolves, as body and mind are unravelled. The three “poisens”…anger, desire,and ignorance…all die…which means that all the negative emotions, the root of Samsara, actually cease, and then, there is a gap.
And where does this process take us to? To the primordial ground and the nature of mind, in all its purity and natural simplicity…Now, everything that obscured it is removed, and our true nature is revealed.
This is a similar enfolding when we practice meditation and have the experience of bliss, clarity and absence of thoughts, which indicate in turn, that desire, anger and ignorance have momentarily dissolved…
Going back to the process…as anger, desire and ignorance dissolve we are becoming purer and purer.
Becoming familiar of this process is of great benefit. For practitioners theres is range of specialised practices to do at each stage of the dissolutions…e.g. you can transform the process of dying into a practice of Guru Yoga.
Summing up and missing out the Guru Yoga practices, the stages of dissolutions, outer and inner produce a gradual development and dawning of ever more subtle levels of consciousness. Each one emerges upon the successive dissolution of the constituents of the body and mind, as the process moves gradually toward the revelation of the very subtlest of all: Ground Luminosity
pheww r u reading this Thomas?
Putting ground luminosity together, it highly important but I’m tired and its late here.
Will put it on here tomorrow.x