Is Buddhism a religion?

Spirituality Religion
#241

The intolerance and arrogance you have displayed here on this forum is the prime reason I am leaving. There is more to life than trying to discuss something with someone who doesn’t listen. I don’t like getting angry or upset. I don’t like being called names that aren’t true. I’ve learned many lessons here…good and bad.

You cannot blame me for leaving this forum. I have not made you leave this forum, you have made yourself leave this forum. You are your own master and ultimately you are the one that makes a decision to stay or to go. Not me. You should take responsibility for your decisions and recognise it is you, not me that is causing them.

Next, look at the real reasons why my actions would cause you to leave. You will find if you are honest in your self-analysis that you are intolerant to what you perceive to be intolerance and arrogance in me. You are reacting against these “thought forms” because they reflect something within you itself. Perhaps your own intolerance and arrogance.

If we are completely objective about this you will find the things I say here are relatively much less worse than things that are said by others outside the forums. I mainly only attack ideas, others attack people. We cannot insulate ourselves from the unpleasant things said and done by people. Just yesterday I had to deal with children throwing snow balls at my window and had to deal with it. I kept my calm and took appropriate action. In the past I had children throwing stones at my window. I was not as calm then, I went out roaring and shouting insults - this time I was much more measured.

You should use this forum as a tool to help you develop a thicker skin and to be able to deal with concepts without getting emotionally affected. I have been attacked on this forum ever since I’ve been here, a day does not go by on this forum where I do not receive some personal attacks. Some members even join up on this forum to abuse me. Still, I am here, smiling and expressing myself. I advise you that you too develop this tolerance that I have and you will be a much more calmer and rational person.

#242

I know I have a choice. You aren’t making me do anything. I find this all too negative.

Like I said SD, I’m not a perfect Buddhist. I try. I try each and every day. But I do know one thing. At the end of the day I can rest knowing that I have shown kindness and compassion toward people. I help people. Do I get sidetracked? Yes! Case in point calling you arrogant, which you are. Just calling a spade a spade oh Surya! Sound familiar?

If you see me as divine why would you say the things you do to me then?

Thick skin? Nah. I’m fine just as I am. If becoming thick skinned means being like you, no thanks.

And what of the whole ordeal of you calling me weak? Trying to get me thick skinned? Do you realize that person never came back? I wonder why? Just thought of this. I have to have thick skin to have taken what I have from you.

I wish you luck on your journey. I hope along the way you find compassion and kindness.

#243

I know I have a choice. You aren’t making me do anything. I find this all too negative.

If that is true, then why did you say:

The intolerance and arrogance you have displayed here on this forum is the prime reason I am leaving.

Here you are directly implicating my “intolerance” and “arrogance” as the cause of you leaving. Now you are saying otherwise. You complain when I point out that you contradict yourself all the time, but what else am I suppose to say when you contradict yourself.

Anyway I am glad you recognise now that this is your choice and nobody is making you do this.

Like I said SD, I’m not a perfect Buddhist. I try. I try each and every day. But I do know one thing. At the end of the day I can rest knowing that I have shown kindness and compassion toward people. I help people. Do I get sidetracked? Yes! Case in point calling you arrogant, which you are. Just calling a spade a spade oh Surya! Sound familiar?

I do not feel you have shown me in particular just kindess and compassion. You have on many occasionally attacked me personally, judged me unfairly and negatively, patronized me and generally been not nice. I think you need to be more honest and critical when evaluating yourself, for you will find a huge gulf between what you believe to be true about yourself and what is actually true.

If you see me as divine why would you say the things you do to me then?

I see your potential as divine. The true “I” that you are is divine. I afford you the same rights as I afford myself - the freedom to think, act and speak freely. You do not afford me the rights to think freely. I cannot for example say, “Abrahamic religions are stupid” or “Hinduism is superior” without being personally attacked by you. I recognise your divinity, you do not recognise mine.

Thick skin? Nah. I’m fine just as I am. If becoming thick skinned means being like you, no thanks.

Nobody is fine as they are. Everybody could do with improve in their body, intellect, relationships, self-management etc. You clearly are finding it very hard to separate concepts from feelings. If a concept is attacked, you act as if you are being attacked. You definitely require improvement here.

And what of the whole ordeal of you calling me weak? Trying to get me thick skinned? Do you realize that person never came back? I wonder why? Just thought of this. I have to have thick skin to have taken what I have from you.

I said somebody who is depressed is weak. I have not said anything wrong, because ideally one wants to be closer to happy and not depressed. If depression was acceptable then why would we be spending billions in psychiatric treatment, antidepressants and therapy. The truth is, nobody wants to be depressed.

I have to a large extent conducted myself with politeness on this forum, even when faced with abuse from others. Recently, a member called “Yogatryit” abused me to no ends in every post, but I conducted myself maturely and sensibly. Yulaw just wrote a very harsh post calling me a troll, racist, supremist and evil, I have not responded in kind to him. So if you are finding it hard to abide a person like me, who to a large extent is many grades better than the majority of people you will meet in the real world, then you are going to surely struggle in life. You will not be able to insulate yourself from unpleasent people in the world.

I am quite surprised that you profess to be Buddhist and yet your actions go very much against Buddhism. In Buddhism you are taught to remain equanimous to everything, pleasent or unpleasant, and to not try control things in your life, just let them happen and be detached to them. Yet, you are finding it difficult to even deal with some heated discussion on a forum, how are you going to deal with the trials and tribulations of life?

I am not the person you, yulaw et al have made me out to be. You are feeding this image which exists only in your imagination.

I think the real reason you are saying you are leaving is because your interactions with me are illuminating a darker side of you that you do not want to see.

#244

It takes two to tango, and if you don’t want to dance, you don’t have to.

I don’t understand this talk about leaving a board over a discussion.

Especially discussions that are civil.

I’ve seen the worst on message boards, and have been called everything from a dkhead, to a ctface, to an a-hole. I’ve been invited to die in fires and to have solitary intercourse with a steakknife. I have endured merciless gang-attacks from “cyber sisters.” I can’t say how many times I’ve been raked over the coals. Yet somehow, I managed to survive and stay on those boards, and got used to it.

But here…it’s like a message board utopia. Everyone is very civil–even in this religious forum where the rules are relaxed.

The worst that SD has to offer is much better than the meanness and personal attacks that are rampant on most boards. And I don’t think he intends to insult, anyway. He’s just very intense and passionate about his beliefs, and confident of the positions he takes. I think he’s wrong sometimes, but complaining about his “style” doesn’t address the point.

Why leave a board over a discussion or over one other poster? Nobody has to have a discussion they don’t want to have, or with someone they don’t like to communicate with.

#245

Yes, the choice was mine and mine from the beginning. I weighed the facts in front of me and made a decision based on FACTS as I saw them and how they affected ME.

You have not been kind on this forum. You have not been tolerant. Just callin a spade a spade. Outside of the examples I gave you, show me. I can copy and paste all of our discussions for everyone to see if you like.

I do not feel you have shown me in particular just kindess and compassion. You have on many occasionally attacked me personally, judged me unfairly and negatively, patronized me and generally been not nice. I think you need to be more honest and critical when evaluating yourself, for you will find a huge gulf between what you believe to be true about yourself and what is actually true.

Really, hum. Let’s see I think I’ve talked about how intelligent you are, I thanked you for softening up your stance about Hinduism is Superior, I thanked you for engaging in good discussion, when you shared something personal in one of the threads I commended you for your courage, I called you knowledgeable. And what of me?..Hum. Guess none. All I got was ridiculed.

I said somebody who is depressed is weak. I have not said anything wrong, because ideally one wants to be closer to happy and not depressed. If depression was acceptable then why would we be spending billions in psychiatric treatment, antidepressants and therapy. The truth is, nobody wants to be depressed.

This is not the truth SD and you know it. You said, " See, this proves you are weak. I just read where you are depressed and on antidepressants". I’m sure you’d like to forget that gem. Why else would David take the thread out?

I have a question for you. Why are you here on the forum? What purpose does if serve for you? What have you learned. Tell me one thing you have learned from someone. You have challenged each and every idea from just about every poster here on the forum.

My problem is I believe in fairness and justice. I see you as a bully. This is why I challenge you when you make statement because you present everything as non-negotiable facts. You think you have no room for learning because of your superior intelligence. You miss out on so much. Yes, your cup is full.

SD, you would even challenge the patience and tolerance of the Dalai Lama. I feel I have acted with much restraint toward you. I know the truth. And again, I am not a perfect person. Wish I was, but I’m still here and still learning.

This is my prediction for you. Someday, after you’ve met your guru and spend your time with him you will reflect on karma you’ve generated during this time in your life. In doing this, and seeing how you’ve treated people, maybe then you will try to burn off some of that bad karma by showing kindness. I hope you learn humility and tolerance. I wish for you a heart filled with love and peace. I mean this sincerely.

#246

Thomas,

I have tried to explain no self to you. Several times. I took the time to write out response after response trying my best to explain this to you. I wanted you to be able to understand it. But all I kept seeing was, "no one answered my question. I’ve asked and no one answered. No acknowledgement that I or Karen or yulaw tried.

And please don’t trivialize my reasons for leaving. I don’t think you are intentionally doing this and are trying to help and I thank you for that. I don’t like the atmosphere of negativity and intolerance and besides that it is taking too much of my time. My time can be better spent. I don’t enjoy this amy more. That’s it.

#247

Could someone then please point to the post where my question was answered?

The question being, “What is the difference between Atheism and Buddhism?”

#248

I have tried to explain no self to you. Several times. I took the time to write out response after response trying my best to explain this to you. I wanted you to be able to understand it. But all I kept seeing was, "no one answered my question. I’ve asked and no one answered. No acknowledgement that I or Karen or yulaw tried.

Thomas,

I was referring to your question about no self and who is the self. I did not answer your question about atheism and buddhism.

#249

[QUOTE=thomas;44207]Could someone then please point to the post where my question was answered?

The question being, “What is the difference between Atheism and Buddhism?”[/QUOTE]

Here you go thomas

Atheism

Buddhism

Read, learn and enjoy

#250

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;44209]Thomas,

I was referring to your question about no self and who is the self. I did not answer your question about atheism and buddhism.[/QUOTE]

You have not answered his question about "who is the one that remembers?"
He said he accepted his body changes. He said he accepts his thoughts, personality, beliefs change. But he is the one that remembers those changes. He has watched his body, thoughts, personality and beliefs change.

Then who is the one that was watching?

You have not answered this question. You have just repeatedly preached what the annata doctrine says. But we know what it says and it is not sitting well with us, because it does not explain who is the watcher and who is the rememberer.

Why do I remember myself growing up over 30 years? Why do I remember how my body was and what thoughts I use to think, if I don’t actually exist? Who is the one that remembers?

Answer this question or simply say you don’t know the answer. Rather than pretending to have answered the question, when you have not.

#251

No thanks, yulaw. I’m not looking for links to websites.

I was asking any Buddhist to explain the difference to me, as I would have been happy to explain a Christian concept.

But if a Buddhist doesn’t want to answer, they don’t have to of course.

#252

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;44209]Thomas,

I was referring to your question about no self and who is the self. I did not answer your question about atheism and buddhism.[/QUOTE]

The specific question I was asking was whether the “self” is like an ice cube that melts into a great puddle of water.

Is that Nirvana? Is that a fair analogy?

And the other point was that I totally agreed that my body changes all the time, but that I don’t see that as my “self.” Why do you include the body as part of the self, or do you see the body as all of the self?

#253

You have not been kind on this forum. You have not been tolerant. Just callin a spade a spade. Outside of the examples I gave you, show me. I can copy and paste all of our discussions for everyone to see if you like.

I never claim I have been always tolerant, always kind. I have been like you, sometimes tolerant and sometimes not, sometimes kind and sometimes not.

I am not claiming to be innocent at all. Why are you claiming to be so?

Really, hum. Let’s see I think I’ve talked about how intelligent you are, I thanked you for softening up your stance about Hinduism is Superior, I thanked you for engaging in good discussion, when you shared something personal in one of the threads I commended you for your courage, I called you knowledgeable. And what of me?..Hum. Guess none. All I got was ridiculed.

Note, that I said you have not always been kind and loving. I know you have said good thing about me, but you have also said bad things about me. Likewise I know have said bad things about you, but I’ve also said good things about you.

I have a question for you. Why are you here on the forum? What purpose does if serve for you? What have you learned. Tell me one thing you have learned from someone. You have challenged each and every idea from just about every poster here on the forum.

I am here for the same reason as anybody else. I like Yoga and I like to discuss and debate Yoga.

My problem is I believe in fairness and justice. I see you as a bully. This is why I challenge you when you make statement because you present everything as non-negotiable facts. You think you have no room for learning because of your superior intelligence. You miss out on so much. Yes, your cup is full.

All of those statements are sweeping generalizations. You are not always fair and just. You sometimes behave like a bully yourself and gang up on me. I still remember how you joined in one the game of ignoring me with Yogiadam a few months back. You also presents stuff as facts. You also behave like you have no room for improvement. You also miss out on so much.

You really sound like you projecting now. I think my theory is correct that you want to leave because your interactions with me, show you a darker side of you.

SD, you would even challenge the patience and tolerance of the Dalai Lama. I feel I have acted with much restraint toward you. I know the truth. And again, I am not a perfect person. Wish I was, but I’m still here and still learning.

So you are comparing yourself with the Dalai Lama now :wink: You say you are not perfect, and yet you often are repeating like a mantra how loving, compassionate, fair and just you are. When I said you should develop a thicker skin, you respond, “I am fine as I am”

Who are you trying to convince that you are loving, compassionate, fair and just? It is not convincing me. I can see all the qualities you condemned in others in you. You need to start by analysing yourself and you will find you fall short of what you believe about yourself.

This is my prediction for you. Someday, after you’ve met your guru and spend your time with him you will reflect on karma you’ve generated during this time in your life. In doing this, and seeing how you’ve treated people, maybe then you will try to burn off some of that bad karma by showing kindness. I hope you learn humility and tolerance. I wish for you a heart filled with love and peace. I mean this sincerely.

I will be dealing karma not just from this time period but from several lifetimes.

Thank you for your sincere wishes that my heart be filled with love and peace. I likewise wish that your mind becomes clear, critical and sharp and you develop the qualities of objectivity and a love for truth.

#254

Right, moving onto to talking about Buddhism, rather than each other.

It has been stated that there is no distinct self by Lotusgirl recently. This is not anatta doctrine, because anatta doctrine does not even say there is no distinct self, it says there is no self at all. Period.

However, the doctrine that there is no distinct self is found in Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism. According to this doctrine Atman = Brahman - Self is all that there is and there is nothing else. There is no distinct self, but only a universal self. I am you and you are me.

However, it does not sit well with reason. If there is no distinct self, then why do I not remember the memories of Thomas, have the thoughts of Thomas? When Thomas gets pleasure or pain, why do I get not pleasure or pain? If there is no distinct self then why did I not get enlightenment when Buddha got enlightenment? If there is only one self, then surely if that self is liberated, then everybody else gets liberation. But this is not the case. It therefore follows there has to multiple distinct selves.

The only doctrine that makes sense is that there are multiple distinct selves.

#255

It seems to me that Buddhism and Hinduism are not so closely related then.

It seems to me, and I emphasize “seems” since I am speaking from a place of ignornce (about eastern religions), that Christianity and Hinduism have more in common than Buddhism and Hinduism.

In Buddhism, the end is that one becomes ALL? Is this right? To me, to become all is to become nothing. Unless becoming ALL means to posses all in similar way to the Christian concept of the Trinity. There are three “persons” in the Trinity, but just one God. Each person possesses all of the Godhead.

So in Buddhism, is there the possibility that there is a retention of some form of “personhood” which embraces all? And that there could be multiple persons, each possessing or being all? (But this would seem to contradict the idea of no “self”).

#256

It seems to me, and I emphasize “seems” since I am speaking from a place of ignornce (about eastern religions), that Christianity and Hinduism have more in common than Buddhism and Hinduism.

Your assessment is fair. The closest tradition in Hinduism to Christianity, which is also the most predominant tradition today and has been for the last 1000 years is Dvaita(dualism) The Dvaita tradition believe in god as an omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent being and as the creator. We souls must win his grace by showing our love to him through devotional practices(prayer, rites, morality) and then we will go to heaven and be with him for eternity.

Like Christianity, we too see god as the trinity. The Hindu trinity is Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Brahma is the creative part and is the father who created the universe. Vishnu is the preserving part and incarnates in human form periodically on earth to show people the way and Shiva is the destuctive part and punishes the ignorant and removes impurities. He will also bring the universe to an end. They are not three separate gods, but one god with three aspects.

#257

I am not a Dvatist by the way. I am closer to Advaita(non dualism) which is the oldest tradition in Hinduism and can be found in the Vedas. I believe in the ultimate reality that is the self that is pure consciousness, knowledge and bliss. The divine self. I identify myself with that great divine one and share its divinity. I the soul must realise my oneness with that divine one by removing the ignorance from the mind and allowing that divine one to illuminate my entire being. This is to be achieived through the practice of meditation. The path of Yoga I follow is Patanjali’s Raja Yoga.
This is also known as the Jnana path - the path of knowledge. The Dvaita path is the Bhakti path - the path of devotion.

Patanjali’s yoga path is not secetarian. It is a pure science of consciousness. It is literally self-development through moral, physical, mental and spiritual training. It does not mention any worship of gods or goddesses, any mantras and the language it uses is nondevotional and universal(subject, object, impressions, mind)

#258

Can you explain how you are one with the Divine, yet still yourself?

#259

I am one with the divine in the same way the rays of light are one with the sun. The rays of light are not the sun and the sun are not the rays of light, yet they are both part and parcel of each other. Likewise, I the soul am part and parcel of god, a child of god. However, I the soul have fallen from grace, and I must now return back to the god the pure source.

This is what I think Jesus meant to say when he quoted, “Ye are all divine” We are all children of god and have god’s qualities of divinity.

“I and my father are one”

#260

[QUOTE=thomas;44214]No thanks, yulaw. I’m not looking for links to websites.

I was asking any Buddhist to explain the difference to me, as I would have been happy to explain a Christian concept.

But if a Buddhist doesn’t want to answer, they don’t have to of course.[/QUOTE]

thomas… No hostility intended but I need to say that you need to look for yourself and read since I doubt any answer that anyone gives you will do. You are looking at absolutely everything through Catholic tinted glasses and until you get beyond that you will not learn or accept anything and I implore you, if you truly want to learn, take a step back and truly take a look at Surya Deva.

You are better off by far to go to the library, by a book, get a DVD on the subject than to take what he says as the truth and nothing but the truth. He has an agenda and it has nothing to do with truth

I will leave you with this

You are not in the moment. You are either in the past or in the future — both are non-existent. Neither can you do anything with the past, nor can you do anything with the future. All that you can do is with the present, and the present is such a small, split second that if you are engaged somewhere else, it simply slips by and you have missed the train. Learn to be in the present. Withdraw your energy from the past. Don’t waste your time in memories; what is gone is gone — say goodbye to it and close the chapter - osho