Yoga Tantra and it’s associated techniques and approachs has been said by many to be the most efficaious means of spiritual development to use in this time of a Billion distractions.
Yoga and Tantra are not the same.
All Yoga leads to the divine
Not all Tantra leads to the divine
If something does not tend towards the divine, then it is not Yoga. Tantra can be used for the divine, but it can also be used for non-divine things. Yoga, on the other hand, already is defined as a science of realization of the divine. So it can only ever lead to one outcome.
Awaaare,
Ok, I was not aware you were referring to the Niyamas. I can agree that “saucha” can be said to be living in communion with the “will of the universe”. But as the only means of entry into existence is through one’s own being, it is one and the same as living in communion with one’s true nature. Yet, as far as “niyamas” in practice are concerned, “saucha” in the sense of being in tune with the will of the universe, it is not something that can be realized when you are just beginning on the path. In the beginning, a certain spirit and attitude is needed if one’s sadhana is to become more effective, and that is what has been referred to as “saucha”, a certain authentic desire and commitment to invest all of one’s energies into the work of the expansion of consciousness, and a surrender to whatever may arise out of it. Beyond this, nothing more can be done in the beginning - it will be impossible for one who is still groping in the dark to already come to communion with his “true will”, as this is a by product of enlightenment.
Surya,
“All Yoga leads to the divine”
If you mean the methods of yoga, it is not really the case. The Scales is right when he says that it all depends on the mind which is using those methods. And it is hard to draw a dividing line between the two, because much of the methods of yoga were Tantric in origin. Tantra is itself a very vague term, it is hard to define it into a fixed category. It refers to a whole range of different approaches for awakening the Kundalini. That is why much tantra has focused on awakening the nadis and the chakras. But all of those method involve stimulating the mind into awakening rather than trying to dissolve the activity of the mind. And the approach is slightly different, yoga wants to restrain the senses. In Tantra, if you have a fear of death for example, rather than simply contemplating about it like some yogis do, you can go to a graveyard, sit on a corpse, meditate, and surround yourself with as many scenes of death as possible so that you can transcend the fear. To sit on a corpse for meditation is in fact one of the well known tantric methods, it is known as sava sadhana. Or if you are too much attached to the idea that sex is immoral, you can have sexual intercourse as a way to transcend that attachment. Although, for it to work, you have to be absolutely mindful in the process, otherwise it can simply become an excuse to be foolish and hedonistic.
There are some yogis who have been practicing their whole lives just for the accumulation of siddhis, because according to them, the more you develop these siddhis is the closer and closer you come to your awakening. But they have failed to understand that, if one is seeking to develop them, as they do in magic or tantra, a certain wisdom is needed to use them effetively towards one’s liberation. It is a far more risky path to use the energy of these siddhis to assist you towards one’s awakening, and it is only very rarely that one comes to the space through them. That is why people like Patanjali and Gautama Buddha were warning others about it, that in fact they are hindrances to one’s enlightenment. It is not because they are really hindrances, even Gautama Buddha himself had awakened many siddhis as a by product of his sadhana. But it can become all too easy to start lusting after them, for one’s ego to be overwhelmed with nourishment by them. But if you allow them to come to you, that is a different matter. So from the beginning, just as a safety gaurd, they have said that they are hindrances along the path. But originally the methods and system of Tantra had come into being for the purpose of the expansion of consciousness towards one’s liberation, everything is to be channeled towards one’s enlightenment. There is a certain well known tantric maxim, “The very poison that kills becomes the elixir of life when used by the wise”. Even things which are often thought to be hindrances, can be used in such a way that they assist you towards your enlightenment.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;49903]Yoga and Tantra are not the same.
All Yoga leads to the divine
Not all Tantra leads to the divine
If something does not tend towards the divine, then it is not Yoga. Tantra can be used for the divine, but it can also be used for non-divine things. Yoga, on the other hand, already is defined as a science of realization of the divine. So it can only ever lead to one outcome.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree…
“All Yoga leads to the divine
Not all Tantra leads to the divine”
If you mean by “yoga”, the methods of yoga, it is not really the case. There are many yogis who are practicing yoga simply to fullfill all kinds of selfish desires through awakening certain powers. In fact, there are yogis who have been practicing the discipline their whole lives but have remained just as unconscious and asleep as they have always been.
Any method at all, whether it be “yoga” or “tantra”, can be used in a million different ways.
If you mean by “yoga”, the methods of yoga, it is not really the case.
That’s fine, but I did not mean the methods of Yoga. The methods of Yoga are so generic like breath regulation, postures, concentration, meditation, contemplatin, prayer, devotion, morality that they cannot be said to be specific to Yoga. Somebody may not know any Yoga at all and yet naturally practice breathing regulation. I mean come on it does not take an Einstein to work out that if one breaths deeply and rhymically one will calm the mind down. In fact it is a natural and instinctual response when you get angry or worried to breath deeper.
What makes Yoga yoga is the philosophy underpinning it. It is a system of self-realization to realise the divine reality. It has no other purpose, hence why Patanjali tells you to ignore the siddhis on the way. They are cool and all, but they are not the goal of Yoga.
This definition of Yoga is codified into the word Yoga itself.
If a “yogi” is more interested in the short term goals of acquiring siddhis etc, then simply put the yogi is not a yogi. He is a tantrika. The distinction between Yoga and tantra is Yoga only one has one goal which is long term: self-realization to realise the divine realiity. On the other hand, tantra has many short terms goals: such as conquest of death, conquest of lust, acquisition of siddhis, manifestation of events. This is also codified into the word tantra - meaning liberation from limitations. If you are limited by a fear of death, there are a system of practices in tantra that help you overcome them. Tantra is pragmatic. Yoga is spiritual. This is why tantrikas are not necessarily spiritual people, and more often than not you find in India tantrikas are associated largely with black magicians and feared by the community.
In Tantra, if you have a fear of death for example, rather than simply contemplating
about it like some yogis do, you can go to a graveyard, sit on a corpse, meditate, and surround yourself with as many scenes of death as possible so that you can transcend the fear. To sit on a corpse for meditation is in fact one of the well known tantric methods, it is known as sava sadhana. Or if you are too much attached to the idea that sex is immoral, you can have sexual intercourse as a way to transcend that attachment. Although, for it to work, you have to be absolutely mindful in the process, otherwise it can simply become an excuse to be foolish and hedonistic.
In Yoga there are no short term goals at all. Yoga aims for the ultimate goal and tells you to keep going until you get there. Not to be satisfied by siddhis, not to be phased by the obstacles and trials and tribulations, to keep going with one-pointed focus for just one thing, and one thing only: self-realization of the divine reality.
My current path is tantra because I am working through several short terms goals. When I start the path it will be 100% yoga.
Surya,
“What makes Yoga yoga is the philosophy underpinning it. It is a system of self-realization to realise the divine reality.”
The same is the case with Tantra. And depending on which school of tradition you belong to, you will be working towards the realization of either “Shiva” or “Shakti”. Both are just different terminologies for the divine. The Tantras, the group of scriptures which have had much influence in the spreading of the methods of tantra, basically are all centered around the liberation of consciousness from the “cycle of birth and death”.
“If a “yogi” is more interested in the short term goals of acquiring siddhis etc, then simply put the yogi is not a yogi. He is a tantrika.”
Then the same can be said about a tantric. If he has interest in simply short-sighted acquiring of siddhis, then he is not a tantric.
“and more often than not you find in India tantrikas are associated largely with black magicians and feared by the community.”
This is not because they have any understanding into Tantra. The methods of Tantra are condemned simply because they deviate so much from what had been commonly accepted for centuries. The ascetic, celibate yogi was the ideal, it was held high on a pedestal as being the greatest form of spirituality. But, a non-celibate, who is not an ascetic, how can he attain liberation ? And indulging in the senses as a means towards liberation, how is that possible? And there are those kinds of Tantric practices which were bound to be totally condemned. Tantra is interested in any means at all which may lead you towards one’s awakening. In India, there are aghora yogis who are amongst the most feared. They live amongst the graveyards, cover their bodies with the ashes of dead corpses, eat from a bowl of a human skull, they will even eat their own feces and eat the flesh of dead corpses. But, as difficult as it may seem to believe, the aghora has only one thing for all of these means - the expansion of consciousness towards one’s enlightenment. And all of these more abrupt, violent methods are just a way of directly moving beyond one’s social and psychological programming. And if everything is divine, then there is absolutely no point in discriminating between what is “good” or “bad”, 'right" or “wrong”, “sacred” or “profrane” - every atom of this existence is divine. So the approach of the aghora is entirely different than the common yogi.
The masses of the religions in India simply do not understand the spirit of Tantra, that it is not mere stimulation of the senses for it’s own sake. They are far too hypnotized by it’s outer appearance, without understanding that actions in themselves have no quality of their own. It is the awareness behind it which determines it’s quality. And in the way of awakening, one will have to put all of one’s attachments to fixed ways of being aside. Even in the most orthodox kind of Hinduism, it has been said that there are a million and one different ways to come to a communion with the divine. And yet, on the other hand, they continue clinging to their own tradition - that theirs is the supreme and any other approach is wrong.
In India, there are aghora yogis who are amongst the most feared. They live amongst the graveyards, cover their bodies with the ashes of dead corpses, eat from a bowl of a human skull, they will even eat their own feces and eat the flesh of dead corpses. But, as difficult as it may seem to believe, the aghora has only one thing for all of these means - the expansion of consciousness towards one’s enlightenment. And all of these more abrupt, violent methods are just a way of directly moving beyond one’s social and psychological programming. And if everything is divine, then there is absolutely no point in discriminating between what is “good” or “bad”, 'right" or “wrong”, “sacred” or “profrane” - every atom of this existence is divine. So the approach of the aghora is entirely different than the common yogi.
I am sorry I am just not buying this. You are telling me people who smear themselves with ashes, live in graveyards, eat out of human skulls, eat their own feaces and drink their own blood, and also eat corpses are moving closer to the divine? To me they are just one step removed from demons. You missed out other things done on the path of tantra which have been practiced historically and still practiced in remote parts of India: human and child sacrifice, animal sacrifice, incest, murder, self mutilation, molestation, consuming high doses of cocaine, heroin etc
Are you seriously telling me this is spiritual and these people are in the same category as yogis and are moving to divine consciousness? No, not at all, they are moving towards demonic consciousness. These are satanic practices and universally condemned(except by satanists themselves) It easy to see what kind of vibrations these practices kindle, just walk into a crack den or go to an underground rave scene.
I get what the point is, to indulge rather than restrain, so that one eventually overcome limiting desires. It works in theory, in practice you are more likely to become even more addicted and spiral into self oblivion.
In Yoga there are no temporal goals of overcoming anger, then overcoming lust, then overcoming greed. The goal from the very outset is to reach self realization of the divine reality. To keep going until you get there. Not in Tantra. Tantra works by eliminating gradually each limitation holding you back. It is coded into the word itself - tan means body, extension or limitation and tra means liberation or freedom from = liberation from limitation, body or extension. Compare and contrast Yoga from yukta to join, connect or unite - the process of joining or connecting the self with the ultimate reality/merging the individual soul with the ultimate soul/connecting to the ultimate reality.
Yoga has no short term goals. It aims straight for the juggular. Tantra does not, tantra aims for removing limitations one by one - often with practices that actually compound the limitation.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;50027]I am sorry I am just not buying this. You are telling me people who smear themselves with ashes, live in graveyards, eat out of human skulls, eat their own feaces and drink their own blood, and also eat corpses are moving closer to the divine? To me they are just one step removed from demons. You missed out other things done on the path of tantra which have been practiced historically and still practiced in remote parts of India: human and child sacrifice, animal sacrifice, incest, murder, self mutilation, molestation, consuming high doses of cocaine, heroin etc
Are you seriously telling me this is spiritual and these people are in the same category as yogis and are moving to divine consciousness? No, not at all, they are moving towards demonic consciousness. These are satanic practices and universally condemned(except by satanists themselves) It easy to see what kind of vibrations these practices kindle, just walk into a crack den or go to an underground rave scene.
I get what the point is, to indulge rather than restrain, so that one eventually overcome limiting desires. It works in theory, in practice you are more likely to become even more addicted and spiral into self oblivion.
In Yoga there are no temporal goals of overcoming anger, then overcoming lust, then overcoming greed. The goal from the very outset is to reach self realization of the divine reality. To keep going until you get there. Not in Tantra. Tantra works by eliminating gradually each limitation holding you back. It is coded into the word itself - tan means body, extension or limitation and tra means liberation or freedom from = liberation from limitation, body or extension. Compare and contrast Yoga from yukta to join, connect or unite - the process of joining or connecting the self with the ultimate reality/merging the individual soul with the ultimate soul/connecting to the ultimate reality.
Yoga has no short term goals. It aims straight for the juggular. Tantra does not, tantra aims for removing limitations one by one - often with practices that actually compound the limitation.[/QUOTE]
Surya is right! I totally agree with him. Yes yes yes
Surya,
“You are telling me people who smear themselves with ashes, live in graveyards, eat out of human skulls, eat their own feaces and drink their own blood, and also eat corpses are moving closer to the divine?”
If it is so, it has less to do with the practices themselves. And yes, there have been people who have become awakened through the method of aghora yoga.
“You missed out other things done on the path of tantra which have been practiced historically and still practiced in remote parts of India: human and child sacrifice, animal sacrifice, incest, murder, self mutilation, molestation, consuming high doses of cocaine, heroin etc”
There are also many yogis who have practiced such things. And if such things in “tantra” have been practiced, it has nothing at all to do with Tantra.
"Are you seriously telling me this is spiritual and these people are in the same category as yogis and are moving to divine consciousness? "
No, I would not even consider those people tantrics, just as you would not consider those yogis who are using the methods of yoga to merely awaken siddhis as yoga. Tantra has for it’s purpose the same phenomenon as yoga, to come to a direct perception of one’s true nature. And if one has some doubt on the matter, rather than forming all kinds of ideas and assumptions, one should research into the matter. The whole chakra system and the methods of awakening Kundalini are basically Tantric in origin.
“These are satanic practices and universally condemned(except by satanists themselves)”
That is fine, but I do not consider “Satan” to be any more a reality than it’s polar opposite. Neither do I consider the opinions of the masses to be of any value.
“Yoga has no short term goals. It aims straight for the juggular.”
That is an impossibility. If one is a sincere seeker of Truth, one will not be aiming for anything at all except to inquire as deeply as possible into existence, without any prejudice and without assuming anything at all. For that, one must be absolutely aware of the seat in which one is sitting, in the conditions which are functioning in this very moment. Out of an understanding of one’s condition in the present, only then can one even become aware of the next step. As one is, in one’s unconsciousness, one is simply groping in the dark. And when groping in the dark, it is not a matter of finding out where to go. You don’t know where to go. You simply have to understand what are the obstacles which are preventing you from coming to your liberation. Once the psychological hindrances for one’s awakening are dissolved, awakening happens as a natural consequence, one need not do anything about it. In fact, unless one has come to a direct experience of one’s enlightenment, one has absolutely no garuntee that such a thing exists. It remains simply a hypothesis, an idea that one has borrowed from the outside. It does not arise out of one’s own inner intelligence.
There are also many yogis who have practiced such things. And if such things in “tantra” have been practiced, it has nothing at all to do with Tantra.
Once again Amir you are arbitarily choosing what you want to include in the category of Tantra, just as you did in what you wanted to include in the list of real siddhis. I think you seriously injure your credibility when you do things like this. So eating ones feaces and drinking blood out of human skulls is a part of tantra and such people are also moving towards the divine, but practices like animal/human sacrifice, self-mutilation and take toxic drugs is not and these people do not deserve to be called tantriks or yogis? Says who, you?
That is fine, but I do not consider “Satan” to be any more a reality than it’s polar opposite. Neither do I consider the opinions of the masses to be of any value.
Nor do most satanists. Satan is not considered to be a real entity, but rather satan for satanists represents the values contained within satanism - to be selfish, to indulge, to destroy anything or anybody that comes in ones way. The rituals done in satanism are more to spite religion by going against everything that is considered sacred - such as through rituals like drinking blood out of human skulls, animal and human sacrifices.
The whole chakra system and the methods of awakening Kundalini are basically Tantric in origin.
Yes, and hence why in laya yoga you work with particular energy centres in the body to unlock their powers. This is clearly tantra and not yoga, because again it has short term goals. The part that makes it closer to Yoga is that the purpose is to finally awaken the kundalini energy and take it in to the head centre, thereby achieiving full self-realization.
So it does tend towards the goal of self-realization by realising the divine reality.
Again I admit that tantra can be used for self-realization and hence identical to Yoga. But not all tantra is used for self-realization. A lot of tantra is used for short term goals, and more often that not, pretty egoic and negative goals. It is very easy to lapse on the path of tantra.
There may well be yogis who do not use methods of yoga to reach self-realization. But they are yogis only by namesake. If their goal is not self-realization by realising the divine reality then they are not yogis - they are tantriks - magicians.
Surya,
“So eating ones feaces and drinking blood out of human skulls is a part of tantra and such people are also moving towards the divine”
If one is involved in the discipline with the proper spirit, yes. In fact, where there is the proper spirit of a meditative consciousness flowing throughout, it will accelerate ones’ expansion. But there is a price to pay for it. One will have to encounter far more risks, but if one manages through them, one’s acceleration is tremendous. That is why those methods have been used - they are used for the purpose of accelerating one’s awakening. But if one is not absolutely mindful, it may achieve the polar opposite. It may bring you into an even deeper unconsciousness, that any expansion in this lifetime may be almost impossible. Because the method is far more direct and confrontational - the possibility of entanglement is tremendous. Many have become insane or have developed all kinds of psychological imbalances because they were unable to remain centered and balanced in the process, they became overwhelmed with egotism. The whole function of the methods of aghora is to move beyond one’s habitual patterns of the mind which have been part of one’s deep programming. This can be done in a thousand and one ways. Sometimes, it can be through the gentle unfolding of the lotus flower. Sometimes, through a direct and swift blow of a sword. But certainly, if you are clinging to one’s own ideas as to what is “right” and “wrong”, “good” and “bad”, “moral” or “immoral”, then one cannot see beyond the veils of one’s own likes and dislikes.
There are no absolute methods, only relative strategies and skillful means.
“The rituals done in satanism are more to spite religion by going against everything that is considered sacred”
That is not the approach of aghora tantra. It is not done for the sake of spiting anything, but to move beyond one’s own psychological conditioning. Nothing else is of interest to the aghori except enlightenment. And as one progresses along the path, by and byall of those methods are abandoned. I am not in support of the method of aghora, not because I do not see that awakening is not possible, but that it is very rare. It is a method which is intentionally compatible with only a particular kind of person, it has never been intended to be adopted by the masses. And if the sciences of transformation are to have any impact at all on humanity - it needs a method which can be used more or less by the average person, without too many risks. That is why Gautama Buddha was very much speaking against the methods of the so called left-handed way. It was not because he did not see that awakening was not possible through them, but that the possibility is so rare, that it is not even worth considering.
Mmmm…
Tantra begat yoga???
Yoga is part of tantra, a child of tantra from what i have understood.
Some of the dubious practices above don’t sound like Tantra.Cocaine or heroin use- a deifnite no. Psychedlics…perhaps yes might qualify. Canibalism…perhaps if it was respectful.
Satanism sounds like “the black arts” to me…lol
I like what Amir said somewhere else
Yoga is supression of the senses with awareness, Tantra is indulgence but with awareness.
I think by yoga you may be referring to possibly classical orthodoxy. From what i get of this the latter term above celebrates all of life, does not deny any of it.Worships the body and the senses for bringing divine light into it.The body is a vessel and a temple.One offers ultimate liberation…the other well i could’nt say…But my gut feeling and experience i have thought as if there seems to be like there’s something missing from the classical yoga position that seems to want to abhor and shun the senses rather than celebrate them as a part of life.It sounds like asceticism that has possibly missed something…This is based on a lititle insight i think i might have. It can be a hard thing to be a master of one’s senses but i think it’s possible if one puts in the effort, i.e does the work. to come to such a place.
Yes i think sexual relations can be used as a vehicle and practice in itself for spiritual cultivation purposes but to say this is what tantra is about is missing the point. Tantra just uses every available means to come to awakening and expansiion of conncioussness, i.e super consciousnesss.No holes are barred.Then again nothing is necessary either.In fact i would say to get self-realised you may need a bit more than the classical orthodox yoga school interpretation…patanjali. The only reason it’s frowned on is because it’s misunderstood, most folk have deep neurosis about sex and it’s association with it. Just watch you T.v set for ten minutes… and how we all interact and to anyone that is semi-enightenend it’s quite obvious. A s freud said it is a deep neurosis within many societies.And still the source of alot of suffering and influence of much behaviour that s living out of unconsciousness.I’m not saying you need to have sex to get awakened. But you cannot ignore all your energies… it’s inveitbale that some sort of bhramacarya is observed if you wish to get a handle on internal sadhana.This is’nt tantra but it’s a useful part of it and tool.
Maybe i misunderstand the classical position; that it does not necessarily abhor the senses??.Perhaps it just generaly ignores sense-mastery as a vehicle for expansion…
And about the OP- BtW “Magic” sounds like black magic but that could be because of limiting prejudices and ignorance and negtive connotations i have about that worD.I know this may sound a bit wishy-washy but it just sounds kinda fishy to me…lol. I’d be intrigued though what some of theese Godlen Dawn methods are about.
Amir ,
Perhaps playing with corpses and faeces is part of the aversion and denial thing and the fact that it is meant to be taboo.I don’t understand the methodology.
I like what you said though it’s not what you do but what you maybe don’t do to remove the psychological blocks that get in the way of opening up that stand as hindrances to expansion.You can practice all day but if you don’t tackle the psycholgical blocks and hindrances like egotism , mind etc etc you are wasting your time… you will not go deeper or get any result…
Deep programming, mental impressions etc…de-conditionning …yes.
Oh and BTW…Yoga is , as far as i have understood it, part of Tantra i am led to believe.
Those other things are not tantra or give good “tantra” a bad name, disservice…but could be possibly perversion, i simply don’t know, or they could not…certainly if in an odd context.You can ritualise anything at the end of the day i suppose.I don’t like to be unfair on defintions or “proper” practice but if it assists in the expansion of consciousness then usually by defintion it must be alright… is my hunch.If it liberates , i.e all of us, then it must be guided by a morally sound compass…come from a higher level of intelligence and divine consciousnesss.
Does it bring in Light, i.e more of it, or darknesss or whatever it does one is not quite sure…mmmmmm?
“Magick” sounds like Aleister Crowley to me(although iheard somewhere he did practice yoga and other things, the big house ,the estate. the clann or cult-ish order etc) and frankly i don’t know enough about the man or what he did/does to comment other than it prob. has negative connotations for most people. But that is from some one that is relatively-speaking ignorant on the subject.
But that is from someone that is relatively-speaking ignorant & uninformed on the subject.I remember i used to have copy of that book of the same title.I never did get into it though…i.e give it a read…it was a large thick hard-back with a purple cover and various esoteric symbols on the front…it read like strange incantations,poetry and mysticism and it was titled “Magick” i’m pretty sure.The edges of the pages were chaffed and wavy I seem to remember…mmmmm…
this is my new chat style, you noticed…lol
With respect to drugs being a possible tool for the expansion of conciousness i would say cocaine definetly ‘No’, resoundingly so. Very bad drug particularly it’s deleterious effects on the brain and the tendency for psychosis & paranoia etc documented in rats and long-term chronic crack addicts.
Heroin i cannot really see the case unless you made out it as perhaps a short-term project .But it does depress the nervous system for a start and is highly addictive. You’d still have to come off it once tolerance had built up which would’nt be long or you perhaps you felt that experience of withdrawal or opioid-sedation might be beneficial.
Psychedelcis would possibly be the only drug class you could make a case for and then it would likely be just a short term project which conceviably might remove certain psychological blocks but like siddhis would be liable to be i.e pose as a distraction . There was a well-known-ish researcher at Harvard, i forget the name(friend of Timothy Leary i think), in the 60’s & 70’s who experimented in this field. And Baba Ganesh also alleged to have used them with spiritual aims in mind…Of course these types of drugs have always be considered sacred and used by shamans i guess for getting intouch with the spirit world. How that might relate to tantra or even yoga i could only guess at & speculate.
It was not because he did not see that awakening was not possible through them, but that the possibility is so rare, that it is not even worth considering.
Absolutely. I am living a left hand type path right now myself, but to be honest my left hand path is what is normal for most people in Western society; sex, drugs and rock and roll. I do not drink blood out of human skulls, eat feaces, smear myself with ashes of dead people or eat corpses… just yet 
Anyway my point was to show the crucial differences between Yoga and tantra. Tantra is the original religion of primitive humans, involving magic, voodoo, drug taking, animal and human sacrifices, sexual practices etc, it is basically the human playing around with subtle forces without really understanding them. This eventually evolved into Yoga, at which point we understood what those subtle forces are.
core,
“Magic” sounds like black magic but that could be because of limiting prejudices and ignorance and negtive connotations i have about that worD"
There are many misunderstandings about that word. When I use the word, I do not mean something supernatural, or otherworldly like flying in the air, materializing objects out of thin air, or any such things. It is rather, just a method which is intended to trigger certain forces of nature within and without oneself, and using these forces to fulfill particular purposes.
Everything in existence is interconnected in such a complex way, working according to certain fixed laws, that if you understand how to access such laws, it is possible to bring about certain changes either within or without oneself. Most people are not even aware that something like the breath is actually interconnected with the various cycles of the moon. Depending on which phase of the moon cycle is functioning, the breath is going to function differently. At certain times, it will flow more through the left channel, at other times, more through the right channel, at other times, equally between both nostrils. If it is flowing more through the left channel, the right brain hemisphere tends to be more active. If more through the right, the left brain hemisphere tends to be more active. Depending on which breath is working, different subtle energies of the body will also be functioning at that particular time. All of these are influenced by a large extent by the cycles of the moon. In yoga, there is a whole science of the breath which is known as Swara Yoga which is basically understanding the different cycles of the breath as they correspond to the moon. So one’s own being is not a separate entity, it is interconnected with so many other forces. If one understands the mechanics of these forces, as well as how to access them, it is possible to bring changes either within oneself or in the external world. Depending on how you use these forces, it has been generally labeled as “black”, “white” or “grey” magic, although I do not consider these labels to be of much value.
There is nothing “mystical” or “magical” about it, in my understanding they are absolutely scientific. Nor does “magic” move beyond the laws of nature, there is nothing which is beyond nature.