Is the OT the most barbaric and savage scripture in the world?

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46743]What happens to Christianity if you take out from it the following:

The OT from the bible
The doctrine of original sin
the doctrine of resurrection
the doctrine of judgement day and eternal damantion/salvation
the doctrine of Jesus being the only son of god
the confession rituals
the clergy
the creation myth

The result is you have no Christianity left. All of the above doctrines are false doctrines and most have been falsified.

Why are we clinging to a falsified religion? Why not instead adopt a religion that has not been falsified?[/QUOTE]

The same can be said of all organized religions. There is no real evidence, historical or scientific, that any supernatural phenomenon claimed by any religion are true or ever happened.

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46741]It is not without reason that I suspect people of being anti-Hindu/Indian you know.[/QUOTE]

In this case you are very right. It is clear Indra Deva is a anti-Indian and anti-Hindu western and white supermist. Ignore the troll.

It is noted how very few of the PC crowd on the Yoga forum have said nothing against the racist thing he he has said and tolerate his hateful speech agaist India and Hinduism, but are up in arms against me for stating a veritable fact about Abrahamic religions supported by references and citations from peer reviewed sources.

I think you are correct to suspect Christian bias.

Hinduism is a scientifically verified religion. Modern science has verified everything Hinduism says and supports a Hindu view of reality today.

The only thing blocking modern science from progressing is the Judo-Christian bias. When we are rid of that, we will be embracing the Hindu view of reality completely and restructure society alongside Hindu thinking.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46743]What happens to Christianity if you take out from it the following:

The OT from the bible
The doctrine of original sin
the doctrine of resurrection
the doctrine of judgement day and eternal damantion/salvation
the doctrine of Jesus being the only son of god
the confession rituals
the clergy
the creation myth

The result is you have no Christianity left. All of the above doctrines are false doctrines and most have been falsified.

Why are we clinging to a falsified religion? Why not instead adopt a religion that has not been falsified?[/QUOTE]
I see your point, but also if we got rid of all falsified religions we would have no religion left. I am not an atheist as I believe that there is a Supreme Power, but I’m not sure anyone has come up with the correct answer.

[QUOTE=Star Light;46748]I see your point, but also if we got rid of all falsified religions we would have no religion left. I am not an atheist as I believe that there is a Supreme Power, but I’m not sure anyone has come up with the correct answer.[/QUOTE]

I personally believe that the falsehood in every religion should be rid off, especially the Abrahamic ones. As to whether the Abrahamic religions can be considered the same (or will survive) is a different matter. But regardless of the outcome (we must not be afraid to contemplate the effects and results) it is most certainly a change for the better and one more step towards a lasting peace.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46747]Hinduism is a scientifically verified religion. Modern science has verified everything Hinduism says and supports a Hindu view of reality today…[/QUOTE]

Lies. You live in a fantasy world.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Why-Hinduism-Is-Science-proof/articleshow/6884126.cms

& Hindus are the biggest victims of confirmation bias… pathetic

I see your point, but also if we got rid of all falsified religions we would have no religion left. I am not an atheist as I believe that there is a Supreme Power, but I’m not sure anyone has come up with the correct answer.

There is one religion that has not been falsified: Hinduism. In fact on the contrary Hinduism has been verified by modern science. I will mention Hindu concepts modern science has verified:

  1. Atoms: The idea of atoms is pervasive in Hindu religion. It is posited that the entire world is made out of paramanus which cannot be split any further, all things are made of out the combinations and permutations of these fundamental units which combine and recombine to form binary atoms, then combine to form tertiary atoms under the influence of energy, giving rise to substances with different properties.

Atoms are confirmed today to exist and we have been able to even find various smaller and smaller ones to exist.

  1. Akasha/ether: The concept of akasha as special substance of reality which is non-atomic, not particular, all pervading and outside of time and space via which things travels in the form of vibrations is another pervasive concept. It is mentioned in the Yogas how the akasha is used to channel energy from any point in space, how it can be used to cause levitation or even teleportation. The energy circuit of the body consisting of the pranas are taking place in the akasha.

The existence of the quantum field is proven today. It has been used to extract energy from any point in space, to cause objects to levitate and teleportation(currently only on the microscopic level)

  1. Observer effect: The concept of all souls being observers of material reality, without which material reality cannot exist or function is central to Hinduism. In Samkhya philosophy the observer must first collapse matter out a superpositioned state of possibility before matter becomes manifest.

The existence of the observer effect is confirmed in quantum mechanics. If there is no observer present there is no material reality and nothing ever happens.

  1. Cyclic universe: The concept of the universe expanding and contracting over vast periods of time is another central concept in Hinduism. These are known as kalpas.

Today, modern science is strongly suspecting the same that the universe has cycles of expansion and contraction over vast periods of time. The Big bang theory is still the most dominant theory in astrophysics.

  1. Superstrings: Hinduism holds the entire universe is just the vibrations of the fundamental forces at the substratum of the gunas. These vibrations of these gunas extend through several dimensions and the physical dimension is the least in vibration.

In modern physics, string theory is the most cutting edge and string theory stipulates that all matter is just the vibrations of quantum strings extending across several dimensions, one of them being our 3D world.

  1. Astral body: Hinduism holds that there is a transmigrating entity known as the subtle or astral body that can disassociate from the body. It can disassociate during sleep or it can disassociate during physical death, where it enters into the astral dimension where it experinces its mental states vividly.

Modern science, in the subset of consciousness studies has proven that OBE and NDE is an actual reality and have been able to empirically measure the effects of the astral body and through phenomenological study have been able to explore the astral dimensions.

  1. Past life: Hinduism holds that the soul is eternal and takes on innumerable bodies in the course of its evolution.

Modern science has proven that past life memories is a real phenomena and through investigative scientific methods have been able to confirm continuity of memories and even physical features between lives. The most notable study is a cross-cultural study by Ian Stevenson with more than 2000 subjects.

  1. Yoga: The practice of Yoga in Hinduism is used to gain full control of ones mind-body system and unlock ones higher potentials, and ultimately to have a direct experience of transcendence. Various stages are delineated in detail.

In modern science in transpersonal psychology the efficacy of Yoga has been confirmed and measured and scientifically verified in countless scientific studies.

I could mention many more such Hindu concepts which have been verified by modern science, but this should be enough to make my point loud and clear.

As for atoms, it is a shame how the Eurocentric historians always cite the Greeks as the people who invented the concept of atoms first when Indians had theorized them nearly a century before.

Forgive the digression from the topic at hand, but I had a question to ask you Surya. I know you must speak Punjabi (and are Punjabi. Bale bale! :wink: ) since you were born as a Sikh. But do you also speak Hindi? If so, we can communicate with each other H@3z0R stA7ylez (1337 sp33k for secretly, though I am making this up). :smiley:

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;46756]As for atoms, it is a shame how the Eurocentric historians always cite the Greeks as the people who invented the concept of atoms first when Indians had theorized them nearly a century before…[/QUOTE]

Ah, thank Krishna for Indian revisionist history! “Everything good and true came from our little muddy corner of Asia! We did everything first! & you know how we know it’s true? Because we say it is!” :rolleyes:

Yep, eurocentric historians want to trace everything back to the Greeks, even the ideas of atoms. However, the Greeks never actually took atoms seriously and it was flatly rejected by Aristotle who preferred fantasy ideas like matter consisting of forms. In addition Democritus’s philosophy of atoms was based on naive speculation and is actually wrong according to moderns science, such as the notion that atoms come in different shapes. In contrast, Indian theories of atoms were highly developed and had a really long history of development, long before Democritus theorized them. They were partly based on empirical observation observed in chemical reactions.

Not only were Indian theories of well ahead of the Greeks, they were also well ahead of Dalton who theorized atoms as being hard solid things that could not be split open. In contrast, Indian atomic theory conceptualized atoms as having no magnitude at all, but infinifesimal points in space, which only gained massive property after a process of aggregation. Modern atomic theory is almost identical to Indian atomic theory. The similarities are stagging in how the Indian atomic theory posits atoms combine first in pairs, then pairs combine to form triplet atoms, whose various combinations then go onto form all matter. It states that atoms only combine if the consistuent particles are compatible(similar to electron valencies) and describes the states of matter(solid, liquid, gas) as atoms with different levels of kinetic energy. Vaiseshika explain that the liquid state of matter arises when the atomic bonds are broken in the solid state through the application of heat energy, causing the atoms to reorganize into a liquid state.

In fact the accuracy with how the atomic process is described suggests this is not philosophy at all, but empirical knowledge.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46760]Yep, eurocentric historians want to trace everything back to the Greeks, even the ideas of atoms. However, the Greeks never actually took atoms seriously and it was flatly rejected by Aristotle who preferred fantasy ideas like matter consisting of forms. In addition Democritus’s philosophy of atoms was based on naive speculation and is actually wrong according to moderns science, such as the notion that atoms come in different shapes. In contrast, Indian theories of atoms were highly developed and had a really long history of development, long before Democritus theorized them. They were partly based on empirical observation observed in chemical reactions.

Not only were Indian theories of well ahead of the Greeks, they were also well ahead of Dalton who theorized atoms as being hard solid things that could not be split open. In contrast, Indian atomic theory conceptualized atoms as having no magnitude at all, but infinifesimal points in space, which only gained massive property after a process of aggregation. Modern atomic theory is almost identical to Indian atomic theory. The similarities are stagging in how the Indian atomic theory posits atoms combine first in pairs, then pairs combine to form triplet atoms, whose various combinations then go onto form all matter. It states that atoms only combine if the consistuent particles are compatible(similar to electron valencies) and describes the states of matter(solid, liquid, gas) as atoms with different levels of kinetic energy. Vaiseshika explain that the liquid state of matter arises when the atomic bonds are broken in the solid state through the application of heat energy, causing the atoms to reorganize into a liquid state.

In fact the accuracy with how the atomic process is described suggests this is not philosophy at all, but empirical knowledge.[/QUOTE]

Oh I knew most of that from researching a bit on the Indian atomic theories…but Eurocentrists won’t get out of their bubbles…

And you didn’t answer my other question…:cry:

It is actually quite obscene and criminal for Western history books to ignore the massive contributions Indians have made, because the Indians are the first scientific civilsation on this planet and were far ahead of the Greeks and even the modern Europeans. Isn’t it very telling that Europe learned how to manufacture steel by reverse engineering Indian steel which was produced through ancient metallugical techniques? Indians had been manufacturing steel since 500BCE :smiley: An attempt was made at patenting a zinc extraction process which was Indian, but the the patent was denied because it was blatantly known at the time it was Indian.

Fortunately, there are quite a lot of Western intellectuals who have noted the Indian contributions. However, despite the fact all these things are facts, still modern Western textbooks do not credit the Indians with anything. It is either Greek, or it is Egyptian and Sumerian. If not them, the Chinese. It’s very clear the West is jealous of heathen India.

Yes, I can speak Hindi :smiley:

Ap punjabi hei? Apko Punjabi bat karna ata hei? My Hindi has deteriorated ever since my family moved to the U.S and neglected to teach me, so correct any informal usage, unidiomatic expressions, and just…bad Hindi. :smiley:

And I love how I just keep seeing “This message is hidden because Indra Deva is on your ignore list.” Poor chap. He either must not have realized by now or must be insulting you instead of me…

For those of you trying to figure out what the hell SD & Baby-Nietzsche are rambling about…

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Hinduism/2001/05/The-Perils-Of-Vedic-Science.aspx

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2101/stories/20040116001408700.htm

some light reading on the socio-political & pseudo-scientific that is post-modernist Hindutva

I can speak Hindi and Punjabi. I cannot read and write in Hindi and Punjabi though

And I love how I just keep seeing “This message is hidden because Indra Deva is on your ignore list.” Poor chap. He either must not have realized by now or must be insulting you instead of me…

He is just trolling as usual by posting strawmans of what we are saying. Nothing to see. Keep him on ignore :smiley:

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46767]I can speak Hindi and Punjabi. I cannot read and write in Hindi and Punjabi though[/QUOTE]

Alas! What a pity…I too suffered the same fate. How I wish I could write in our script…the horizontal bars from which our squiggily lines and beautiful shapes emerge…and then proceed to read my poor caligraphy…it is too painful to imagine!

Haha. Will do. Seeing the alert is far more entertaining than trashing him in a debate and watching him troll.

I have had several opportunities to learn the script of Hindi, Punjabi and even Sanskrit but I have been a bit lazy in commiting the time and effort. I will learn them when I am in India.

That is what I wish to do as well. I want to learn Tamil and Sanskrit and re-learn Hindi. Sanskrit won’t be too much of a stretch since we already speak Hindi. And as for Tamil…I am not really sure. I have heard some accounts of it being thousands of years old, even older than Sanskrit…I don’t know what to believe nowadays considering the damage Eurocentrists have done to our history. But learning a South Indian language would be interesting nevertheless.

Speaking of Tamil, are you aware of the antics in Tamil Nadu? The government run by Christianized former Dalits bans the uttering of Sanskrit, favours religions other than Hinduism, and persecutes Brahmins…unfortunate since many of the greatest Indians from that area are Brahmins. Not surprisingly, they believe in the discredited AIT…thought it is most likely they are using it as an excuse to persecute Brahmins…

Here is another sources on Indian atomism:

Encyclopaedia of the Hindu world:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0U2QRpDv2KMC&pg=PA790&lpg=PA790&dq=hindu+atomic+theory&source=bl&ots=k-RiDrZMB0&sig=puTv8yWaXmr82FWJuaX4P3M2qiI&hl=en&ei=o_gjTeSdIsHPhAeU0vm3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;46773]Here is another sources on Indian atomism:

Encyclopaedia of the Hindu world:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0U2QRpDv2KMC&pg=PA790&lpg=PA790&dq=hindu+atomic+theory&source=bl&ots=k-RiDrZMB0&sig=puTv8yWaXmr82FWJuaX4P3M2qiI&hl=en&ei=o_gjTeSdIsHPhAeU0vm3Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false[/QUOTE]

“One man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh.” ~ Robert Heinlein