Is the West becoming more spiritual?


#21

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52182]If you watch the discourses above you will find they all one thing in common: consciousness. Spirituality is a consciousness-paradigm of the world, where one accepts that the entire universe is a field of consciousness and everything is the form of vibrating consciousness.[/QUOTE]

Well, I am in agreement. The core of spirituality is cosmic consciousness, the realisation that all living (and non living ) beings are part of a cosmic whole. That is why it is easier or non individualistic cultures like India, Japan, China etc to relate to spirituality more easily than it is for highly individualistic cultures like the US, where one puts oneself first at all times.


#22

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52133]Yeah, I think it does boil down to how materially affluent you are. We know that materialism does not not bring lasting satisfication, rather it brings new kind of problems: existential crisis. [/QUOTE]

The man who predicted the 1987 stock market crash and the fall of the Soviet Union is now forecasting a revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years, while cautioning that putting food on the table will be a more pressing concern than buying Christmas gifts by 2012.

Gerald Celente, the CEO of Trends Research Institute, is renowned for his accuracy in predicting future world and economic events, which will send a chill down your spine considering what he told Fox News this week.

Celente says that by 2012 America will become an underdeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.

“We ’ re going to see the end of the retail Christmas… we ’ re going to see a fundamental shift take place… putting food on the table is going to be more important than putting gifts under the Christmas tree,” said Celente, adding that the situation would be “worse than the great depression.”

“America’s going to go through a transition the likes of which no one is prepared for,” said Celente, noting that people ’ s refusal to acknowledge that America was even in a recession highlights how big a problem denial is in being ready for the true scale of the crisis.

Celente, who successfully predicted the 1997 Asian Currency Crisis, the subprime mortgage collapse and the massive devaluation of the U.S. dollar, told UPI in November last year that the following year would be known as “The Panic of 2008,” adding that “giants (would) tumble to their deaths,” which is exactly what we have witnessed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and others.

He also said that the dollar would eventually be devalued by as much as 90 percent. The consequence of what we have seen unfold this year would lead to a lowering in living standards, Celente predicted a year ago, which is also being borne out by plummeting retail sales figures.

The prospect of revolution was a concept echoed by a British Ministry of Defence report last year, which predicted that within 30 years, the growing gap between the super rich and the middle class, along with an urban underclass threatening social order would mean, “The world ’ s middle classes might unite, using access to knowledge, resources and skills to shape transnational processes in their own class interest,” and that, “The middle classes could become a revolutionary class.”

In a separate recent interview, Celente went further on the subject of revolution in America . “There will be a revolution in this country,” he said. “It ’ s not going to come yet, but it ’ s going to come down the line and we ’ re going to see a third party and this was the catalyst for it: the takeover of Washington, D.C., in broad daylight by Wall Street in this bloodless coup. And it will happen as conditions continue to worsen.”

“The first thing to do is organise with tax revolts. That’s going to be the big one because people can’t afford to pay more school tax, property tax, any kind of tax. You’re going to start seeing those kinds of protests start to develop.”

“It’s going to be very bleak. Very sad. And there is going to be a lot of homeless, the likes of which we have never seen before. Tent cities are already sprouting up around the country and we’re going to see many more.”

“We’re going to start seeing huge areas of vacant real estate and squatters living in them as well. It’s going to be a picture the likes of which Americans are not going to be used to.
It’s going to come as a shock and with it, there’s going to be a lot of crime. And the crime is going to be a lot worse than it was before because in the last 1929 Depression, people’s minds weren’t wrecked on all these modern drugs, over-the-counter drugs, or crystal meth or whatever it might be… So, you have a huge underclass of very desperate people with their minds chemically blown beyond anybody ’ s comprehension.”

The George Washington blog has compiled a list of quotes attesting to Celente’s accuracy as a trend forecaster. “When CNN wants to know about the Top Trends, we ask Gerald Celente.” - CNN Headline News
"Gerald Celente has a knack for getting the zeitgeist right." - USA Today

“There’s not a better trend forecaster than Gerald Celente. The man knows what he’s talking about.” - CNBC

“Those who take their predictions seriously …consider Gerald Celente and the Trends Research Institute.” - The Wall Street Journal

“Gerald Celente is always ahead of the curve on trends and uncannily on the mark … he’s one of the most accurate forecasters around.” - The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

“Mr. Celente tracks the world ’ s social, economic and business trendsfor corporate clients.” - The New York Times

“Mr. Celente is a very intelligent guy. We are able to learn about trends from an authority.” - 48 Hours, CBS News

“Gerald Celente has a solid track record. He has predicted everything from the 1987 stock market crash and the demise of the Soviet Union to green marketing and corporate downsizing.” - The Detroit News

“Gerald Celente forecast the 1987 stock market crash, ‘green marketing,’ and the boom in gourmet coffees.” - Chicago Tribune

“The Trends Research Institute is the Standard and Poors of Popular Culture.” - The Los Angeles Times

“If Nostradamus were alive today, he ’ d have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente.” - New York Post

So there you have it - hardly a nut job conspiracy theorist blowhard now is he? The price of not heeding his warnings will be far greater than the cost of preparing for the future now.

Storable food and gold are two good places to make a start!

From Shrenik R. Dalal


#23

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52162]The whose who of Western spirituality:

Michael Beckwith(Featured in the Secret)

Dan Milman(The author of “The peaceful warrior”)

Neal Donald Walsh(The author of the bestseller, “Conversations with God”)

Western disciples of Indian gurus making a huge splash in the West:

Mooji:

Gangaji:

All of which are seen as nothing more than quacks and hippies of sorts.


#24

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52167]Ekhart Tolle(Author of the bestseller “Power of now”)

Deepak Chopra:

Spiritual scientists, who are changing the very landscape of science:

Bruce Lipton, spiritual biologist and pinoeer of epigenetics:



Bruce Lipton’s research has proven categorically that genes DO NOT determine your life or your body, but rather genes are determined by your mind, thoughts, belief systems. You can use your own mind to heal yourself.

Gregg Braden, spiritual physicist, author of “divine matrix”:

Gregg Braden reveals the entire universe is a universal field of consciousness and that out thoughts directly affect events happening in the universe. In the above video he reveals how the magnetic field of the earth was affected on 9/11.

All of this pionnering in research in spirituality is coming from the West.[/QUOTE]

Lol. Pseudo scientists. All these people get scorned in the Western world.

Deepak Chopra?!?!! Seriously? facedesk


#25

Neitzsche, your ignorance is starting to disappoint me. You lash out at the ignorant in the West, but right now you are behaving like the most ignorant person on this forum. While, everybody else here I can see there is a definite rise of a spiritual class in the West, and you have been provided considerable information now on this, you still continue to behave ignorant and dismiss this information.

If we go by social prejudices against spirituality, which you are right is present in the West, then you find the same in India too. Even amongst the secular community in India Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta is considered quackery. The difference is, in the West spirituality is considered quackery by the dominant secular community, but research grants are awarded by major universities(such as Stanford) to spiritual research. There are now officially recognised spiritual academic disciplines like transpersonal psychology and consciousness studies. There are tons of scientists and physicists now speaking the language of spirituality, even if the secular community consider them “pseudo-scientists” You siding with such prejudice is highly rich, considering you side with OIT archeaologists, but the secular community actually consider them pseudo-archeaologists/Hindutva nuts.

The secular community, or more accurately the materialist community are a dying breed anyway. Now, even official academic journals are forced to publish the research of these so-called pseudo scientists, because the evidence they present is simply too overwhelming. Such as recently, Nature journal had to present a recent study in quantum physics which shows reality does not really exist without an observer.

I am starting to question whether you are spiritual at all.


#26

Well, I am in agreement. The core of spirituality is cosmic consciousness, the realisation that all living (and non living ) beings are part of a cosmic whole. That is why it is easier or non individualistic cultures like India, Japan, China etc to relate to spirituality more easily than it is for highly individualistic cultures like the US, where one puts oneself first at all times.

These are generalizations that are simplistic. Yes, Eastern countries have historically been more holistic and Western countries have historically been more individualistic, but today Eastern countries are highly individualistic. This is easy for one to see by just walking through Mumbai where half of the population live in slums, and the other half in high rise modern apartments. Such scenes greet you in every Indian city, where crippled men, women and children are found on the street begging and struggling to have a single days’s meal, and rich people in their fancy cars and an affluent middle class pass them by with scorn. No one puts others first, they put themselves first.

You and N are quick to criticise the West, without seldom realising the same criticisms apply to India, to an even larger extent. You are either hypocrites or in denial about the problems that exist in Indian society.

Gerald Celente, the CEO of Trends Research Institute, is renowned for his accuracy in predicting future world and economic events, which will send a chill down your spine considering what he told Fox News this week.

Celente says that by 2012 America will become an underdeveloped nation, that there will be a revolution marked by food riots, squatter rebellions, tax revolts and job marches, and that holidays will be more about obtaining food, not gifts.

Absolutely, and this is what I have said from the very beginning: The West which is in late capitalism is now experiencing total moral, economic and political breakdown, and this is what capitalism eventually leads to, because capitalism is based on exploitation and capital falling into fewer and fewer hands, until you have a situation of a two-class society: super-rich and powerful and poor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Y5qUo7kIY

India, which is in early capitalism does not yet have to go through what America and then rest of the Western world is going through, but will when it gets to late capitalism around 2040. First, like America and the Western world, a middle class of consumers will form(this middle class is currently estimated to be around 300 million, by 2020 it will be about 500 million) By 2020 all the trappings of Western way of life will become pervasive in Indian cities(malls, multiplexes, strip clubs, bars, clubs and pubs, fast food chains) and Western problems like ignorant and rebellious teenagers, teenage pregnancy, high rates of divorce and single parent families will become endemic. This is already happening in fact. Then by 2040 India will experience a total moral, economic and political breakdown.

Indians are fools if they think they will not have to go through similar problems the West is going through now. All capitalist countries go through this, because that is what capitalism is all about: capital progressively falls into fewer and fewer hands. Hence, why in the West critical theorists have written so much against capitalism(Marxists and neo-marxists) In countries like India, very little criticism is made of capitalism, because the people take it for granted and are too blinded by the temporal material benefits, to care about the long term destruction. The rich especially(especially those are come from the richest families in Hyderabad) fight to maintain it, because that is where their riches come from. Even in America, those who want to maintain capitalism, are the richest at the top.

Capitalism is a failed system and produces total economic, moral, and political breakdown. It is not going to save India, but rather plunge its masses into greater misery and destroy whatever little spirituality is remaining in the country. If you are a true Indian, you would insist on the varnashrama dharma system, which has been the socio-economic system of India for millenias and produced great wealth, prosperity and spirituality.

I am sorry how can you and N complain about the West and westernization, and yet totally lap up all of its systems? Who is the real Indian here, you who want India to continue to follow a Western socio-economic system, or me, who wants India to return to its own traditional varnashrama dharma?


#27

It is true that there is a lot of problem in the US, just as there is same amount of problem in the UK and whole EU. But human world is centered around the language, and today the dominant language is English.

Sorry to sound simplistic, but I don’t think America could collapse that easily…


#28

Sorry to sound simplistic, but I don’t think America could collapse that easily…

America is indeed collapsing. It is becoming a third world country. Here is the proof:

Cuts in living standards, infrastructure:

Slums appearing all over America:

Detriot city, gone:

43-50 million Americans living in poverty(1 in 6 people)


#29

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52395]Neitzsche, your ignorance is starting to disappoint me. You lash out at the ignorant in the West, but right now you are behaving like the most ignorant person on this forum. While, everybody else here I can see there is a definite rise of a spiritual class in the West, and you have been provided considerable information now on this, you still continue to behave ignorant and dismiss this information.

If we go by social prejudices against spirituality, which you are right is present in the West, then you find the same in India too. Even amongst the secular community in India Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta is considered quackery. The difference is, in the West spirituality is considered quackery by the dominant secular community, but research grants are awarded by major universities(such as Stanford) to spiritual research. There are now officially recognised spiritual academic disciplines like transpersonal psychology and consciousness studies. There are tons of scientists and physicists now speaking the language of spirituality, even if the secular community consider them “pseudo-scientists” You siding with such prejudice is highly rich, considering you side with OIT archeaologists, but the secular community actually consider them pseudo-archeaologists/Hindutva nuts.

The secular community, or more accurately the materialist community are a dying breed anyway. Now, even official academic journals are forced to publish the research of these so-called pseudo scientists, because the evidence they present is simply too overwhelming. Such as recently, Nature journal had to present a recent study in quantum physics which shows reality does not really exist without an observer.

I am starting to question whether you are spiritual at all.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? The public considers those very people to be quacks and fools. Deepak Chopra, for example, was awarded the Ig-noble award for his quantum quackery and nonsense, and was heavily criticized for spreading scientific misconceptions.

If you call the prevalence of Yoga as an exercise rather than for spiritual purposes, I don’t know what to tell you. If you view environmental activism as the product of increasing spirituality, rather than as movements with roots in post-WW2 activism, you do not know your history. If you view increasing health-awareness as a product of increasing spirituality rather than the product of protests of concerned parents and controversial documentaries such as “Super-Size me” (which effectively prevented me from eating at McDonalds ever again), you do not know the causation involved.

Actually, prejudices against SCIENCE are most prevalent here. Spirituality kind of takes a back seat nowadays. You do not know how institutionalized the skepticism for proven scientific theories such as the BBT and Evolution are. Most Americans are so retarded that they don’t even believe Global Warming. All of this is a product of Christian biases. Almost daily you hear news of a school district replacing Evolution with Creationism. Christianity is the bane of civilization. It is bringing America down with its doctrinal ignorance.

Today, some idiot in my Physics class started arguing with me about Evolution.

Idiot: "It requires a lot of faith!"
Me: Exasperated sigh "No it DOESN’T."
Idiot: "Its all deductive logic! It isn’t reality!"
Me: "Take two squirrels, insects, or animals of the same species, and observe their differences. I don’t see how something we can observe right in front of our eyes requires faith."
Idiot: "We can’t observe these changes over long periods of time."
Me: Points at my eyes than points at an East Asian kid’s eyes “Last time I checked, this definitely took a long time. So maybe you are right! Evolution doesn’t exist because it takes a long time!” Laughs on
Idiot: Shuts up because he knows debating against the kid who has one of the highest grades in the class and who knows far more science is pointless

As for secularists in India, what else do you expect? They are the whole reason India is so corrupt and depraved. Without them and their Christianized/Westernized biases…

And what are you talking about? The majority of scientists don’t speak the language of spirituality. Those that do are called “Psychologists” and I actually find Psychology extremely intriguing and fascinating. It is actually one of the courses I am planning to take next year. The point I was making was that such studies are not widely accepted by the public, which is a far outcry from your accusation that I do not accept these findings.

Besides, I don’t believe in the OIT. It has already been found that there was no OIT or AIT but a fluctuation of populations between India and Central Asia for millennia. This is what I believe.

Didn’t I already say that I am more into learning than spirituality? Thats just the way I am.


#30

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52424]America is indeed collapsing. It is becoming a third world country. Here is the proof:

Cuts in living standards, infrastructure:

Slums appearing all over America:

Detriot city, gone:

43-50 million Americans living in poverty(1 in 6 people)

Yeah, thanks for agreeing with me after I have been the same thing for quite some time.


#31

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;52444]Yeah, thanks for agreeing with me after I have been the same thing for quite some time.[/QUOTE]

I am a bit confused :confused: with SD’s stance. On one hand he says Spirituality can only gain currency where the people have all economic needs fulfilled and where they are wealthy and hence US is more spirtual.On the other hand he agrees that the US is collapsing on the economic front.:eek:

He defines (and correctly ) spirituality as the realisation of cosmic consciousness and yet he says that an individualistic society is gaining spirituality. By his own definition spirituality is a connection to the cosmic -hence collective consciousness. But he has failed to explain how an individualistic person (by definition focussed on himself) will be able to connect to the cosmic whole (where individual self will not exist).

But then what do I know hah ? For by his own definition anyone who does not agree with him is a fool :cool:


#32

Reaswaran, there would be no confusion if you actually read what I write, rather than read what you think I am saying.

I have said that spirituality thrives in rich societies by the virtue that people have their economic needs fulfilled, so they have the luxury to pursue higher things like spirituality and they are driven to this by the existential angst that these rich societies go through. This is owing to the fact that despite having their material needs fulfilled, they still do not get satisfication. Hence, why I have pointed out that because Western society has for a long time based on a paradigm of just money, it is going through an existential crisis and a breakdown on all levels, economic, moral and political, which is giving birth to a spiritual class of Westerners.

The point I am making is in simple English. Perhaps English is not your first language, hence why you struggle to comprehend something so simply written.

I have already refuted your point about India being a non-individualistic society. In a country where half of the population like in slums and the other half in high rise apartments in cities like Mumbai, you cannot point fingers at the West for being individualistic.

Stop behaving like a bunch of hypocrites. All the problems that you point out in the West, exist in India to a larger extent. By engaging in this constant anti-West rhetoric, you are just inviting anti-India posts and sentiments. Heck, you are inviting them from me, and I am an avid India lover.


#33

Neitzsche, I thought you were a young, critical and progressive Hindu thinker. I now think you are an ignorant, immature, hypocritical Indian nationalist. There is simply no justification to the massive amount of ignorance and hypocrisy you have shown regarding

  1. The problems that exist in India regading poverty, illiteracy, inequality, and the China threat.
  2. Your dismissal of an otherwise well known movement in the West of growing spirituality

First, I thought you were just not aware, so as I’ve always done in very discussion I presented you the information. I presented you tons of data on the China threat and loads of links for you to peruse. Initially, you poo-pooed it and demanded credible sources(even though my original post contained mostly credible sources) and then I provided you more and you still did not concede my point that China is a threat to India. I provided you tons of data on Indians problems, told you about mine and my families experience with corruption in India at Indian airports etc, and then you accused me of visiting some really poor part of India(which part of India is not poor?) I then posted links to other peoples experiences who have experieced the same corruption at all Indian airports, and you dismissed it as not credible. I had told you about my Western spiritual friends, first of all you accused my Western spiritual friends of being sinister, I did not take offence but thought it was a genuine misunderstanding. I then tried to put you in touch with the Western spiritual movement(beginning from the Romantic movemement), provided you demographical data, and then youtube links to some of the leading figures in Western spirituality and their material, only to be told by you they are quacks, hippies and pseudoscientists(What does that make all of Hindu gurus then?) and dismissing the movement as just environmental activism(did you actually even click on the links I gave?) and then finally the icing on the cake, you admit you are not spiritual.

Hang on if you are not spiritual, then how the heck are you Hindu? You’re hypocrite, that is what you are. You condemn the West constantly as evil, immoral, ignorant, and yet are in high praise of Western thinkers like Neitzsche, Newton, Einstein and celeberate capitalism, industralism and Western science and materialism.

You have shown yourself to be a dishonourable debater and have lost lot a lot of respect with me. It is highly rich you sould complain about others being ignorant or not facing up to the facts, considering your behaviour in this and the Hindutva thread. You have indeed shown your age. Much less a progressive and critical thinker, you have shown yourself to be a spoiled rich brat from Hyderabad with a very big mouth. Heck, if US is so bad, what are you doing there for the past 11 years? Do you have plans to move back to India? Doesn’t sound like it.

And for the record global warming and evolution is indeed questionable. Not just your “ignorant American peers” but several scientists have also bought them into question. In the documentary entitled, “An inconveniant truth” a bunch of ranking scientists ridicule this idea of global warming, showing that there have been several periods in the past when the Earth’s temperature was much warmer. Other scientists claim that the notion that carbon emissions are causing global warming is nonsense, but global warming is being caused by activity on the sun, which is causing other planets in our solar system to also experience it.

I am not going to bother providing you anymore information, facts and figures or arguments on this discussion. You are unreasonable, so I will not reason with you.


#34

In conclude my discussion with you, next time you decide to slilng mud at the West, I am first going to show you a mirror showing India. Then I am going to ask you what you are doing in the US for 11 years if you hate Western people so much.


#35

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52513]Reaswaran, there would be no confusion if you actually read what I write, rather than read what you think I am saying.

(a) I have said that spirituality thrives in rich societies by the virtue that people have their economic needs fulfilled, so they have the luxury to pursue higher things like spirituality and they are driven to this by the existential angst that these rich societies go through. This is owing to the fact that despite having their material needs fulfilled, they still do not get satisfication. Hence, why I have pointed out that because Western society has for a long time based on a paradigm of just money, it is going through an existential crisis and a breakdown on all levels, economic, moral and political, which is giving birth to a spiritual class of Westerners.

(b) The point I am making is in simple English. Perhaps English is not your first language, hence why you struggle to comprehend something so simply written.

© I have already refuted your point about India being a non-individualistic society. In a country where half of the population like in slums and the other half in high rise apartments in cities like Mumbai, you cannot point fingers at the West for being individualistic.

(d) Stop behaving like a bunch of hypocrites. All the problems that you point out in the West, exist in India to a larger extent. By engaging in this constant anti-West rhetoric, you are just inviting anti-India posts and sentiments. Heck, you are inviting them from me, and I am an avid India lover.[/QUOTE]

(a) Labouring a point repeatedly does not make it any more valid SD. Perhaps you need to take a course in logic. I have already pointed out to you that Maslow’s theory has been criticised by several thinkers and is hence not accepted as a scientific truth which you seem to have done. You do not seem to realise the paradox in your arguement wherein you state that " spirituality
thrives in rich societies" adding in the same breath " it is going through an existential crisis and a breakdown on all levels, economic, moral and political, which is giving birth to a spiritual class of Westerners."

But then of course logic does not seem to be your strong point.

(b) Simple English -yes but logic -no. Its not your English which is at fault it is the lack of straight thinking. And you have resorted not now but several times to rudeness when you are cornered in an arguement. Not the mark of the most intellectual of men.

© You have failed to appreciate the irony in an individualistic person trying to achieve union with the collective soul. Again total lack of thinking !

(d) There is no anti western rhetoric that I have engaged in. I just pointed out the fallacy in your thinking that the west is more spiritual than India. This is something which only you could come up with. India has its share and more than its share of persons who ape the west. But it has a large number of persons who do not share this philosophy and this is something which you seem not capable of seeing. Perhaps you need to need to introspect on the reasons which trigger off verbal violence in you.


#36

Okay, I am going to drop the the politeness now. Even my mother, bless her soul, gets this very basic point that poor people want wealth and rich people want spirituality. This is hardly rocket science. Your average chaiwala and riskhawala does not give a damn about Yoga and Vedanta, because you know what? They live in a country where more than 800 million people make less than 2 dollars a day and struggle to make ends meet.

I am honestly starting to think Indian is full of morons if they cannot even accept this fact about themselves. Stop talking about India’s so-called rise, when 374 million people cannot read or write, 800 million people are extremely poor and 100-200 million live in slums.

I have said it from the start, I have never liked Indians. I have consistently found Indians to be the most stupidest, rudest, ignorant and arrogant people I have had to deal with. I am not saying all Indians are like this, but the few Indians that are posting here on this forum are not doing much to my change my mind.

Now, that you know SD is no more playing mr nice guy. Lets proceed to answer your points.

QUOTE=reaswaran;52521 Labouring a point repeatedly does not make it any more valid SD. Perhaps you need to take a course in logic. I have already pointed out to you that Maslow’s theory has been criticised by several thinkers and is hence not accepted as a scientific truth which you seem to have done. .You do not seem to realise the paradox in your arguement wherein you state that " spirituality
thrives in rich societies" adding in the same breath " it is going through an existential crisis and a breakdown on all levels, economic, moral and political, which is giving birth to a spiritual class of Westerners" [/quote]

But then of course logic does not seem to be your strong point. [/quote]

Buster, I have a first class degree with hons in Philosophy. One of the compulsory modules we take in Philosophy is Logic and I got a distinction in that module. We studied both Aristotilian systems of logic and propositional calculus, where we study statements not just for the formal properties of validit, but also soundness and consistency(we also took an optional seminar in modal and fuzzy logic) In addition to studying Western logic, I have also studied Indian logic. The first chapter of my dissertation was exposing the problems in the epistemology of Western philosophy science by exposing problems in their logical system and comparing and contrasting with Nyaya. For this, I also got a distinction. So shut that crap hole.

Of course, in a forum we do not write to each other formal logic, otherwise I would have to convert your statements into sentences in symbolic logic and then run tests on with using truth tables, truth trees and truth derivations. So in a forum Logic is simply a case of do your statements actually make any sense, are the conclusions of your statement entailed by your premises, are your premises sound and based on actual facts?

So - in simple English, lets test your own logic:

. I have already pointed out to you that Maslow’s theory has been criticised by several thinkers and is hence not accepted as a scientific truth which you seem to have done.

No, wait actually you have not pointed out who it has been criticised by. I just looked through your post history and you have not mentioned a single thinker and their arguments against Maslow’s theory. Therefore you are making clearly a false statement. Fail.

Secondly, Einstein, whoever told you that if somebody disagrees with something, it means it is not true? There is not a single statement in the entire world that somebody has not disagreed with. There is not a single theory in all of science that does not have people disagreeing with it. Simply saying, “But, sombody disagrees” does not entail the conclusion that something is wrong.

Now lets play logic - I have given you reasons for why Maslow’s theory(better known as common sense) works to explain the rise of spirituality in more affluent socieities. I have produced demographical data showing this exactly and shown that in Western socieities like the US, it is indeed the affluent that endorse spirituality. I have given several examples of spirituality appearing in popular media and in academia, and how even research grants are given by major institutes. Now, where is your counter-reasons against Maslow’s theory(better known as common sense) and counter-examples of spirituality with demographical data flourishing in India?

You do not seem to realise the paradox in your arguement wherein you state that " spirituality
thrives in rich societies" adding in the same breath " it is going through an existential crisis and a breakdown on all levels, economic, moral and political, which is giving birth to a spiritual class of Westerners

Where is this paradox? Does paradox mean something else in Indian textbooks or just in your head? In even simpler English:

Western society has been a capitalist society for several centuries(longer than India and China) and capitalism is based on the pursuit of material affluence. For several generations, Western society has been highly affluent and the members of Western society have enjoyed really high living standards. But, high living standards has not bought personal satisfication for Western society. Hence, why the West have the highest rate of mental illness. This has lead to the breakdown of the capitalist society and the emergence of a rising class of spiritual Westerners looking for more ethical, fair and holistic ways of life.

There is absolutely no paradox in the above paragraph. It is as logical 1, 2, 3.

(b) Simple English -yes but logic -no. Its not your English which is at fault it is the lack of straight thinking. And you have resorted not now but several times to rudeness when you are cornered in an arguement. Not the mark of the most intellectual of men.

Buster, you are being rude to me right now. Hence why I have dropped the politeness with you.

© You have failed to appreciate the irony in an individualistic person trying to achieve union with the collective soul. Again total lack of thinking !

You have failed to provide any evidence for this simplistic generelization. I have refuted your stupid generalization claiming India is colllectivist, by showing how in India half of the population live in slums and the other half in high rise modern apartments in cities like Mumbai. Don’t feed me crap that in India, Indians put others first. Now, the truth is in India, Indians are likely to con you at the slightest opportunity. Hence, why Einstein, it has one of the highest rates of corruption in the world.

So depraved Indian people can be, the wife side of my uncle when he met with an accident and later died, was more interested in securing his scooter than him to make money out of it! When me and my family were busy making condolences and grieiving his death, the wife side of his family were busing file law suits to get the scooter and law suits against my grandparents for treating his wife badly. One day, while we were home alongside his wife, an army of people stormed our flat claiming we treated her badly - what they really wanted was to get her married off again to a rich family. Such leeches they were though they continued to leech money of my grandfather by getting him to give money to his grandchildren’s support.

This is not at all an uncommon account of how Indian people treat each other. I don’t know a single Indian person who has not had to experience such dirty politics within their own family for god’s sake.

There is no anti western rhetoric that I have engaged in. I just pointed out the fallacy in your thinking that the west is more spiritual than India. This is something which only you could come up with. India has its share and more than its share of persons who ape the west. But it has a large number of persons who do not share this philosophy and this is something which you seem not capable of seeing. Perhaps you need to need to introspect on the reasons which trigger off verbal violence in you.

What share? Where is the data? I have provided you demographical data of the approx 50 million Western rising spiritual class. I have shown you there is a market for spiritual consumption in the West and demand for spiritual products. Hence why spiritual movies are made in the mainstream. Now show me the same for India, or shut up.


#37

I think our Indian members seem to have a problem accepting the fact that India sucks :smiley:
Highest number of illiterate people, highest number of poor people living in abject poverty, 70% living in rural villages, one of the highest rate in corruption in the world(even some sub-saharan African countries are better) Horrible living conditions, high rates of AIDS, malaria, hepatitis and even Rabies!(Most Western countries are free of it) Water conditions are so bad, Indians have to boil their water. Electrical production is so scarce, Indians experience power outages throughout the day even in the capital city.

Do not insult spirituality by saying India is a spiritual country. India is no longer the Vedic country it use to be. For all intents and purposes it is a Western country today: Western socio-economic systems, Western political systems, Western legal systems, Western education system, Western media system, Western scientific systems. This is why it is so ironic that you constantly sling mud at the West, while celeberating its systems :smiley:
What is Indian about you other than your skin colour and your place of birth?


#38

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52525]I think our Indian members seem to have a problem accepting the fact that India sucks :smiley:
Highest number of illiterate people, highest number of poor people living in abject poverty, 70% living in rural villages, one of the highest rate in corruption in the world(even some sub-saharan African countries are better) Horrible living conditions, high rates of AIDS, malaria, hepatitis and even Rabies!(Most Western countries are free of it) Water conditions are so bad, Indians have to boil their water. Electrical production is so scarce, Indians experience power outages throughout the day even in the capital city.

Do not insult spirituality by saying India is a spiritual country. India is no longer the Vedic country it use to be. For all intents and purposes it is a Western country today: Western socio-economic systems, Western political systems, Western legal systems, Western education system, Western media system, Western scientific systems. This is why it is so ironic that you constantly sling mud at the West, while celeberating its systems :smiley:
What is Indian about you other than your skin colour and your place of birth?[/QUOTE]

This and the outburst of rage in your earlier posts shows the immaturity of your mind. And you practice yoga ha ?


#39

[QUOTE=reaswaran;52586]This and the outburst of rage in your earlier posts shows the immaturity of your mind. And you practice yoga ha ?[/QUOTE]

What your post shows is that you still have not supported any of your points or refuted mine. Your inability to acknowledge the problems that plague India shows your emotional maturity, or rather lack of.

I am done with discussing with you. If you are not going to be reasonable, support your points or refute mine so that we can have progress in this discussion, there is no point you even being here.

I will write back when there is something worthwhile to respond to.

And by the way India does suck. Nobody wants to live in this country, unless you are one of the few who can afford to live in high rise apartments, otherwise you have to compromise in every area of your life. Grow up and get real.


#40

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;52518]And for the record global warming and evolution is indeed questionable. Not just your “ignorant American peers” but several scientists have also bought them into question. In the documentary entitled, “An inconveniant truth” a bunch of ranking scientists ridicule this idea of global warming, showing that there have been several periods in the past when the Earth’s temperature was much warmer. Other scientists claim that the notion that carbon emissions are causing global warming is nonsense, but global warming is being caused by activity on the sun, which is causing other planets in our solar system to also experience it.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree on this. There is shit load of evidence out there confirming that the current global warming and climate change as the direct cause of human industrial activity taking place for the last 200 years. If not satisfied, and wanna delve the issue, ‘IPCC’ website is a good start :smile: