Is Yoga basically flexability training? Contortion?

Yoga Discussion General Yoga
#1

Hi there. maybe i’m wrong about this but it’s my understanding that yoga is about flexability only. I’m confused about the spiritual part. andi’m not really all that interested in the spiritual / meditation aspect.

is a type of contortion training?

my goal is to be able to do various types of splits and difficult yoga style poses.

basically i have the goal of learning differerent dance styles. like ballet, jazz, breakdancing etc.,

and i realize now that a huge part of being a great dancer is having great flexability.

having the ability to different types of splits and difficult yoga poses and stretchy type movements with legs/joints etc.,

i’m a 30 year old male and i realize that because i’m older it will be harder and painful for me at first. and i realize that i need a good teacher / trainer.

and at the moment i am doing the techniques that are higlighted in the elastic steel “splits” program. google his name.

i have a workbook and the dvd and a stretching band too.

i have alo heard of splits machines that martial artists use.

what should i do? because i think i hit a point where i don’t see my flexability improving the way i want. i feel more flexible. i don’t get cramps in my legs like i used to. but i want to achieve more.

#2

With all due respect it might be better to address this with a group of contortionists. That group shares the intention you outline AND understand the risks and rewards in pursuing it, not to mention the methodologies for getting there. I suggest this site.

Yoga itself has many tools. One small tool happens to be the postures. Obviously this is the tool that has thus far been embraced by western culture. Those postures (called asana - ah-suh-nuh) are not about flexibility. They are about the exploration of the Self through the physical form via stability and mobility. The art of mobility is contortionism. The art of learning about one’s self by stabilizing one thing while moving another is asana.

#3

hmmm…very interesting. anyone else?

#4

I think Gordon pretty well summed it up.

And as for ballet dancers having great flexibility, many come to yoga to correct the imbalance their chosen profession has created. (i.e. tight external rotators)

You indicated in your first paragraph you have no desire to explore the spiritual side of yoga. If this is where you are and what you want, I would suggest finding a good teacher to work with. Explain to him/her your goal of increasing flexibility.

Best of luck to you.

#5

good information. thanks.

tight external rotators you say. i guess i should learn more about the muscles involved in different dance styles.

but i’m real excited to do what i’m doing. getting real flexible first before i do any dance training. thanks for the info.

i do alot of stretching already. and i guess i’m curious about what i’m doing wrong because i believe i have hit a plateau. its like i just can’t reach and stretch and flex my joints any further and it’s driving me nuts!!!

but yeah…i guess i need to work with a teacher/trainer.

thank you both!

#6

The “harder” you try the more difficult it is. Work with a teacher who can assess your ROM and make some suggestions to get you over the hurdle.

I brought up the tight external rotators because it is a classic problem with dancers. I can’t say if “yours” are tight.

You say you do a lot of stretching. Can you elaborate a bit more? What poses do you do? Which ones are difficult for you?

Balance is what you are striving for. Strength, flexibility and stamina. Working toward one goal, can be counterproductive and can eventually lead to injury.

#7

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;77490]The “harder” you try the more difficult it is. Work with a teacher who can assess your ROM and make some suggestions to get you over the hurdle.

I brought up the tight external rotators because it is a classic problem with dancers. I can’t say if “yours” are tight.

You say you do a lot of stretching. Can you elaborate a bit more? What poses do you do? Which ones are difficult for you?

Balance is what you are striving for. Strength, flexibility and stamina. Working toward one goal, can be counterproductive and can eventually lead to injury.[/QUOTE]

well…i would post pictures and videos or links but i can’t because this site limits me since i am new here. ( i need 15 posts) before i can start posting pictures. sorry.

If you Google the website “elastic steel” “strength and flexibility”

the guy who produces the DVD

you will see a website that does a few demos of splits

but here is what i do. i pretty much copy pasted this from his website.
but for the most part i do this.

[B]joint rotations[/B]

[B]Pre-stretches sequence[/B] - This is the sequence, which gets major lower body muscles prepared for speed and power of the kicking technique, as well as elasticity of splits.

[B]Mobility Swings[/B] - It’s a great warm up technique as well as injury prevention skill.

[B]Static and dynamic conditioning[/B] - This is the bottom brick of the ElasticSteel method. Muscle strength and isolation is developed for further use in stretching and kicking.

[B]Extended Length Conditioning[/B] - This exceptional system of exercises stretches and strengthens muscles in very unique ways.

[B][B]Stability circles [/B][/B]- This great technique, teaches balance and ease needed to develop speed and power of the leg techniques.

[B]Leg raises[/B] - Leg raises are extremely important techniques to get the legs ready for flexibility, while executing high speed movement.

[B]Reciprocal stretches[/B] - These are techniques based on body’s natural tricks. Flexibility is enhanced, pain free.

[B]Deep stretches [/B]- Progressive techniques to maximize flexibility.

i also do variations of this. i just talked to a guy (via email) at a website called “yoga life institute” and he said this to me.

[B][I]

Thanks for you email regarding stretching.

Perhaps you can stop in sometime and we can discuss things.

Our Yoga does include the entire lifestyle approach and does not reduce yoga to stretching only. However, when bringing the mind into yoga practice release hidden tension that improves physical fitness.

Without meeting you, I am less inclined to make any statements about your physical goals beyond the point of caution when attempting to drastically increase flexibility after the age of 21. You may check with your Doctor, our understanding is that flexibility can be increased only to the degree of ligament flexibility which is fixed after the age of 21. The other point is physical joint stability, if the muscles become too loose, the joint can be less stable.

Do let us know if you wish to discuss yoga further,
[/I][/B]

#8

The body has joint range of motion for protective reasons. In the course of our living (read: choices) we can further inhibit our innate (read: safe) range of motion. When we do so it is completely appropriate to counter our choices with others, like stretching - or dealing with the emotions we’re suppressing which store in the tissue of the muscle.

The human body is most stable (read: functional) when weight is born with aligned limbs. Overly mobile joints move bones out of alignment but to the other end of the extreme from the stiff person. Both are out of alignment and both therefore have work to do in asana - HOWEVER it is not the same work.

From the perspective of asana the stiff person is far easier to work with and typically far safer in the practice. The hyper mobile student doesn’t “feel” as much and has to be worked very mindfully as they do not know when they have moved beyond the alignment point. So in short, the stiff person is moved toward aligned while the overly mobile person is moved back to it.

#9

very interesting info. i have learned alot already. so i guess my new question is this.

should i find a contortionist trainer or a yoga instructor? because no insult to the yoga teachers here but i am not interested in the meditation/spiritual stuff.

i just want the flexablity.

#10

About spirituality? Yoga takes ‘spirit’ to mean life-force or life-energy. In that sense, we are all ‘spiritual beings’; but many remain in a state of denial. Body is the spirit’s vehicle for experiencing this world and hence needs to be cleansed, unclogged, efficient and aligned, to serve the purpose.

Can you choose the physical aspect over the spiritual? Of course. Stick to what makes you happy. Spiritual side is for the restless and the courageous.

#11

i got another email.

Thanks for thinking of us. I think the type of yoga we do would be very good for providing strength and keeping your body safe while you’re increasing your flexibility. We are very alignment-based, so “contortion” would not describe what we do. But we do increase flexibility, within a teaching structure that will prevent injury.

Although you might be happier in a classic Circus Arts program, you’re welcome to drop into a class to see what I mean about our technique. You’ll find a full schedule on our website a

Circus Arts / Contortion training? is that what i need? seems extreme but i’m willing to find it. i think it will be hard. but i will say this has been a learning experience.

#12

i found this article. its called

[B]Happy to Bend Over Backward[/B]

IT might seem strange that when Adam Woolley turned 26 in November, a group of his colleagues sang ?Happy Birthday? as they, and he, were doing handstands.

Handstands, though, are not so difficult for this crowd: they?re all students in a contortion class taught by Jonathan Nosan, and for most of them basic acrobatic moves are child?s play. The class, which Mr. Nosan has been teaching weekly since last fall at the Sankalpah Yoga Studio in Manhattan, tends to draw people who, as one student put it, use their bodies to make a living.

Mr. Woolley is a professional hand balancer, and aerialists, a fitness pole dancer and ballet and modern dancers are among the other regulars. Even Isaac Pe?a, who founded the studio (with Jude English) and teaches yoga, takes Mr. Nosan?s class.

At first blush, it resembles some yoga classes, minus music, chanting or incense, but it transforms. ?Yoga is more of an all-around wellness sort of thing, where it?s all about balance,? Mr. Pe?a said after a recent class. ?Contortion is more extreme.?

Students spend a good part of the 75 minutes bent over backward. And they?re not just poised in a backbend, but doing exercises like ?the waterfall,? which requires them to lean back, touch the floor, return to a standing position and then repeat the motion several times ? a reverse toe touch, more or less.

?This one is a real sternum cracker,? Mr. Nosan said during one class as he coached his charges (and made an observer cringe).

The atmosphere in what Mr. Nosan calls his ?contorture chamber? is light. The instructor giggles, and students joke and congratulate one another after difficult maneuvers. The camaraderie is palpable, partly because, outside of class, some of these folks move in the same circles.

?The circus world is minuscule,? said Rachel Salzman, an aerialist and hand balancer who has done yoga with Mr. Pe?a and performed with other students in the class. ?We all kind of know each other somehow.?

But the airy atmosphere belies students? intensity, and Mr. Nosan can be exacting. At a recent class he took time to work with Mr. Pe?a on the placement of one toe.

?Are you feeling something?,? he polled the students while they were doing hanging back bends (long leans backward, but your hands are not touching the floor). ?I would hate to have you in this position and not feeling anything.? Once he even advised a student to ?relax the forehead.?

That actually counts as job advice for this crowd. ?I?ve been doing yoga for a long time, but you don?t train like this in a yoga class,? said Marlo Fisken, a teacher and performer who won the American Pole Fitness Championships last fall, but still finds contortion class challenging. ?I come here to work on my weaknesses,? she said.

Clearly this class is not for everyone, but it may not be as much of a stretch as it sounds to those among us who huff and puff when bending over to tie our shoelaces. Mr. Nosan himself couldn?t even touch his toes 20 years ago. A former academic devoted to Asian studies at the University of California, Berkeley, and a Fulbright scholar, Mr. Nosan is today, at 42, a full-time contortionist who has performed in theater and circus events and has been a stunt double in films and commercials.

He can touch his toes now, even bending over backward.

#13

Wow i found this message at a contortion forums.

i’m sorry because i don’t mean to offend any yoga practitioners here. But this has been very educational for me.

but this person here puts down yoga as being fluff.

Yes there is alot of stretch in the upper back and stretch. It took looking at loads of contortion pictures for me to figure that out. Yoga is often full of fluff that makes it hard to improve past a bridge pose or any basic backben. Often yoga teacher are so focused on health and wellness and not hurting somebody that they get stuck… which makes it hard to improve. I love yoga but sometimes it is best just to ignore what the average yoga teacher says…they are just not seeing the whole picture of the body and how beautiful it can be when at it’s fullest movement. And I do that stretch every day (the wall stretch) and a few others and it has helped alot. And if you look at Dharma Mittra of some other yogis scorpion, and cheststands… there is alot on the neck and chin. But ideal you want to be on the chest.

Yoga is for health, contortion is for performance and aesthetics. There will be difference of opinion. Most yoga teachers who poo-poo on contortion usually themselves are not very flexible and do not have the experience in their own body of what is happening at wider ranges of mobility. Ask your contortion teacher, asks retired contortionists- if they have problems and what kind. Find out for yourself. I’ve met yoga teachers who tell me (contortion) alignment is wrong or doing this is bad for me…these are also people who’ve done a few years of yoga and 200hr certification where they are just repeating what they’ve learned. Sometimes people have a set definition of ‘healthy range of motion’…and do not know how to deal with more than that. Generally yoga teachers are more interested in safety and health and avoiding injuring students and lawsuits. Some are exxeptional- Dharma Mittra, Pattabhi Jois for example. They push their students and do lots of hands on.