Is Yoga Hinduism?

Spirituality Religion
#261

Namaste,

Like I said this is just an issue of respect first and foremost. To not give credit to sources is not considered an ethical practice. In modern times we call this plagiarism. To release formal statements in the West saying, “Yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism” is like saying Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet have nothing to do with Shakespeare. Like I said, if the West released formal statements saying, “Qigong has nothing to do with Taoism” the Chinese would be up in arms.

Just because the universe will appear and disappear in the blink of Shivas eye does not mean we stop recording history. It is a fact the steam engine was invented by the Europeans, Qigong by the Taoists and Yoga invented by the Hindus. Again it is easy to see that the earliest description of the theory and practice of Yoga is in Hindu scriptures. The most popular scripture of Hinduism, the Gita, is a treatise on Yoga. Yoga is what our religion teaches. They cannot be separated from one another.

The temples represent just one form of Yoga - Bhakti Yoga, which is the actually the most latest development in Hinduism. Hinduism does not mandate its adherents to go to temples. In fact, in Hinduism, each Hindu can practice Yoga in their own way. Many choices are given to the Hindus on how to practice union with the divine(Yoga) Jnana, Raja, Karma, Bhakti, Hatha and Nada being the most popular.

What you need to understand is that Hinduism is the religion of Yoga. The theory of Yoga is its teachings, the practice of Yoga is its rituals and the ethics of Yoga is its moral codes. Yoga very much is the Hindu religion.

#262

Was this meant for me? If so, no need.

#263

Surya,

You state that some are using wrong translations for the Vedas, yet you do the very same thing in translating the Bible. There are many translations of the Bible and it is stated over and over again that with the passage of time, words and their meanings change. Words used 2000 years ago don’t have the same meaning as they do today. Gods message stays generally the same, but the specific translation is different. Could you not then say that while the general message of the Vedas have not changed, the text translations have needed to to make it more applicable in todays modern thinking?

To release formal statements in the West saying, “Yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism”

    Don't know how you got this Surya.  Who made this formal statement?  I know that I have acknowledged Hinduism shared the "practice" of yoga with us.  We do disagree that Yoga belongs to Hinduism, as I believe it is there for all and more universal in nature.

And please Surya, do not make condescending statements like :

I have a problem with ignorant Westerners making claims that Yoga is not Hinduism.

This is uncalled for and ends real dialogue. I could say the same about you and your views of Jesus, the Bible, Abrahamic religions, Islam, Buddhism, etc, but I have not called you ignorant.

#264

As a devout hindu I’m really…

hehehhe

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
[SIZE=3]

[SIZE=2]Here’s the carrot, and there’s the stick.Here kitty,kitty…Prrrrr.Where’s your cream?

Only a fool bothers to engage in argument;He said this, and they said that;
And so, on it goes.

I’m actually learning alot about Hindu culture & Hinduism.Thank you, All…

Yoga is definitelly hinduism.One of it’s greatest treasures… No doubt about it. Phwawwwwwww!!!. How dare you say that! !!!

What’s that expression again:

En-lighten up!
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

#265

[QUOTE=core789;37341]As a devout hindu I’m really…

hehehhe

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
[SIZE=3]

[SIZE=2]Here’s the carrot, and there’s the stick.Here kitty,kitty…Prrrrr.Where’s your cream?

Only a fool bothers to engage in argument;He said this, and they said that;
And so, on it goes.

I’m actually learning alot about Hindu culture & Hinduism.Thank you, All…

Yoga is definitelly hinduism.One of it’s greatest treasures… No doubt about it. Phwawwwwwww!!!. How dare you say that! !!!

What’s that expression again:

En-lighten up!
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

good :smiley:

#266

Heheheh…

Glad you like it.

Some feel the need to convince others, often on points of belief or dialogue which may be quite academic. So be it.

In yoga it is sometimes said that bondage to ideas can be a problelm, some may venture so far to say even the problem.

I think everyone here has been very diplomatic and cool about their view-point here… :slight_smile:

As a devout hindu, I really have…

…en-lightened up.

Hehehehe…

#267

Yes Core, you’ve en-lighted up the thread! Many thanks!

#268

Hinduism is just a religious name given to systematic exploitation of the ‘lower classes’ and women done by ‘high class’ Brahmins and Kshatriyas for thousands of years.

The gods they worship are models of worst humans. Lord Brahma had incest with his own daughter Saraswati. Rishi Narad had nothing better to do except incite people against each other.

Lord Indra is always engrossed in drinking his fave narcotic ‘soma’ and watching half naked apsaras dance in his court.

And Lord Rama sends his own wife Sita to jungle just because some washerman says she slept with Ravan! And this even when he had already ‘tested’ Sita after he won her back by defeating Ravan.

And Krishna breaks his own promise again and again and again in the war of Mahabharata.
And Krishna had more than 16000 wives! How many are enough??

#269

And as far as ‘interpretation’ of scriptures is concerned, I can concoct any cock and bull story about great Oneness from any shit of a scripture if I want to.

There is nothing difficult to understand in the lines I quoted.

Was not Draupadi a shared wife amongst five Pandav brothers just because their mother accidently blurted out,‘whatever you have brought, share it amongst yourselves’?

And the bunch of blockheads they were, pandava brothers started sharing Draupadi!
hillarious, wouldnt you say?

And Krishna accepted this! Lord Krishna! Who spoke Geeta on the battlefield! He accepted this sharing of one wife amongst the five brothers!

Every Indian knows this and if this Surya guy says, ‘O no, this is a false interpretation given by Britishers to exploit the Indians’, I say he is as big a moron as all his great Hindu gods were.

And lastly, please somebody should tell this muttonhead Surya to stop using words like ‘dear’ in his posts. It just shows his stupid mentality.

[B]Member warned for personal attacks per the forum rules at 9:46 am central on 09/13/2010 - admin[/B]

#270

@ core789

I’m not hindu nor other religious identifications, in fact I really think my religion as atheist yoga.
However, I like what I can see in your view of the situation, mostly I agree with the fact that the bondage to ideals, as you called it, are the very problem.
Religions in themselves are bondage to something that pursues ideals, then they are limiting.

#271

[QUOTE=machine gun yogin;37362]@ core789

I’m not hindu nor other religious identifications, in fact I really think my religion as atheist yoga.
However, I like what I can see in your view of the situation, mostly I agree with the fact that the bondage to ideals, as you called it, are the very problem.
Religions in themselves are bondage to something that pursues ideals, then they are limiting.[/QUOTE]

I think maybe you should abandon yoga if you are atheist then? Yoga is Union or “waking up”(not really union because that which is God is no different then yourself) to your divine nature. Now God may not be in the anthropomrphic sense, but it is still a “diety” and of course atheism is no belief in said diety/dieties.

Or maybe you should deeply inquire what youre trying to achieve?

/shrugs

#272

[QUOTE=Trika_yogi;37366]I think maybe [B]you should abandon yoga [/B]if you are atheist then? Yoga is Union or “waking up”(not really union because that which is God is no different then yourself) to your divine nature. Now God may not be in the anthropomrphic sense, but it is still a “diety” and of course atheism is no belief in said diety/dieties.

Or maybe you should deeply inquire what youre trying to achieve?

/shrugs[/QUOTE]

Certainly I’m not going to follow your non-smart advice :cool:

But let’s have a look at the meaning of atheism

From wiki:

[I]Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief that there are any deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that no deities exist. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism [B]is contrasted with theism[/B], which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
[/I]
So now let’s have a look at the mining of theism

[I]Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists. In a more specific sense, theism refers to a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and his relationship to the universe. [B]Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe[/B].[/I]

HERE IS THE POINT!

I don’t believe there is a god who is in charge and govens the universe.
There are universal laws, which probably we won’t never know all of them, which govern the universe.

Who made these laws?

No one knows, and maybe the all universe makes no sense at all, but yoga help to understand these laws, and live following them.

IMHO religions have fixed rules and obligations to follow, sometimes forcing the believer against those that are the universal laws.

#273

I’m not sure i understand your logic.

A = Without
Atheism = Without theism
Contrasted = opposed to

So you’re a yogi who practices yoga which is union with the divine and yet you believe this divine doesn’t exist, but then you make statements which lead me to believe you have an idea this divine does exist?

Maybe you shouldn’t call yourself an atheist?

I see you have a pic of Ramakrsna, he certainly wasn’t an atheist. He sure loved ma kali.

I’m confused

#274

I knew that :rolleyes:

In fact i’m not surprise that people tend to identify with institutions and membership groups.

What I feel is that what religions call divine, is nothing but the nature governed by universal laws.

IMHO the more we practice yoga (as a mean to reach pura coscienza) the more we get close to these laws!

Religions try to understand why there are these laws.
Yoga try to understand how these laws work, and how we can live in armony with them.

You are right, my avatar is Ramakrishna by the way :razz:

#275

[QUOTE=machine gun yogin;37369]I knew that :rolleyes:

In fact i’m not surprise that people tend to identify with institutions and membership groups.

What I feel is that what religions call divine, is nothing but the nature governed by universal laws.

IMHO the more we practice yoga (as a mean to reach pura coscienza) the more we get close to these laws!

Religions try to understand why there are these laws.
Yoga try to understand how these laws work, and how we can live in armony with them.

You are right, my avatar is Ramakrishna by the way :razz:[/QUOTE]

Yep, the more we begin to shut our minds up and ego takes a back seat, we begin to realize that religous ideals don’t matter.

Ramakrsna was a hero of mine when i first began to learn about yoga. I must have read about 4-5 books written on his life. :smiley:

#276

Surely you have read the “Lex Hixon” one… my favourite :smiley:

#277

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;37339]Surya,

You state that some are using wrong translations for the Vedas, yet you do the very same thing in translating the Bible. There are many translations of the Bible and it is stated over and over again that with the passage of time, words and their meanings change. Words used 2000 years ago don’t have the same meaning as they do today. Gods message stays generally the same, but the specific translation is different. Could you not then say that while the general message of the Vedas have not changed, the text translations have needed to to make it more applicable in todays modern thinking?[/quote]

Namaste, I have cited from authetic translations of the bible. The bible translations are not controversial because there are hundreds of translations of this book and the vast majority of translations read the same.

With the Vedas it is not the same. There are only a couple of translations in existence and all translations read differently. The reason for this is Vedas are not easy books to translate because the language Vedic Sanskrit is too ancient, they are full of symbolism, metaphors and complex ideas, that almost every translator has admitted how difficult it is to read them. Like any poetry, there are differing interpretations of what they mean. Like I said its a very difficult task in translating them because there are 10,000 hymns in the Rig Veda alone and it requires very complex linguistic analysis using Sanskrits complex rules of sentence construction. The translations done by 19th century Europeans were done by ignoring all of this, nor were they qualified to translate Vedic Sanskrit, and on top of that they had racist racial views. So obviously their translations are not credible.

There is no problem translating classical Sanskrit though such as the Gita. There are hundreds of translations of the Gita and the vast majority read the same.

Don’t know how you got this Surya. Who made this formal statement? I know that I have acknowledged Hinduism shared the “practice” of yoga with us. We do disagree that Yoga belongs to Hinduism, as I believe it is there for all and more universal in nature.

The National Association of Yoga in America is one of them. I never said that Yoga cannot be practiced by anybody else. It is a formal Hindu philosophy and practice though.

#278

I am transposing the comparative analysis I did of the different translations of the Rig Veda for the first few hymns of the Vedas. The first translation is done according to Sanskrit’s complex rules of linguistic analysis. The second is the translations done by European using a method invented by 19th century linguists called compararive linguistics.

Rig 1.1.1

Sanskrit transliteration: Agnim ile purah-hitam yagnasya devam rtivijam hotam ratnadhatamam

Ghosh:

Word-for-word:

agnim: (ang = to flicker, zig zag) fire, divine fire, sacrificial fire inside stomach, bile
Ile: (id = to praise) I praise, adore, marvel
purah-hitam: inside placed, the word purah also signifies in front of or before, while pura indicates a town, stronghold or body.
yagnasya: (Yaj = to sacrifice, dedicate, bestow, give away) of efforts made, energy sacrificed
devam: (Div = to shine) senses, the light of consciousness/intelligence
rtivijam: (r = to move out, change, shape up, excite + jya = to get consumed) fuel, maintainer of energy conservation(rita = eternal law)
ratnadhatamam: treasure, anything valuable or precious/gems --(Dha = to hold, maintain) holding firmly

Translation: I praise/adore that fire divine that is placed within us, which provides us with the energy needed to vitalise our senses and consciousness, which when called upon it unfolds great treasures placed within us.

Commentary by Gosh. As the mode of the cosmic energy, Agni bestows upon all living creatures the necessary heat, light, power of procreation. The word is rooted in ang, meaning to move very intensely or very fast. Ang also means a limb or a part of a whole.

Griffith: I Laud Agni, the chosen Priest, God, minister of sacrifice,
The hotar, lavishest of wealth.

Rig 1.1.2

Sanskrit transliteration: agnih purvebhi rsibhi idyah uta sah devan a iha vaksati

Ghosh

Word for Word:

agnih: fire, vital energy
purvebhi: earlier also
rsibhi: by the Risis, the great thinkers/seers
idyah: (Id = to praise) was praised, adored
nutanaih: by the new ones
uta: and, also
devan: (Div = to shine) to the shining ones, senses
a: towards, direct
iha: here
vaksati: (Vaks = to grow, increase, be powerful) make powerful
stimulates, activates

Translation: This adorable Agni was eugolised by the early seers, just as it is being done by the new ones. It is the one that directs our senses here(in this body)

Griffith: Worthy is Agni to be praised by living as by ancient seers.
He shall bring hitherward the Gods.

Rig 1.1.3

Sanskrit transliteration: agnina rayim asnavat posam eva dive-dive yasasam viravataman

Ghosh:

Word for Word:

agnina: By the vital energy
rayim: (rai = to flow, advance) zeal, arduour
asnavat: (as = to fill completely) like food filling the stomach
posam: (pus = to nourish) nourishes
eva: quickly, speedily
dive-dive: day-to-day
yasasam: satisfactorily, agreeably
viravattaman: powerful, vigorously, gripping

Translation: Like food nourishing our body, our zeal/energy for work to gets replenished by Agni from day to day, vigorously.

Griffith: Through Agni man obtaineth wealth, yea, plenty waxing day by day,
Most rich in heroes, glorious.

Rig 1.1.4

Sanskrit transliteration: agne yam yajnam adhvarnam visvatah pari-bhu asi sah it devesu gacchati

Ghosh

Word for Word:

agne: O Agni(fire divine)
yam: to that
yajnam: sacrifice, endeavour
adhvarnam: (Adhvan = way, passage, space, time, sky) mid-heaven, mind
visvatah: all round, everywhere
pari-bhu: encircles, encompasses all that exists(bhu)
asi: you are
sah: He, it
it: moving, going into
devesu: into the senses
gacchati: goes

Translation: O Agni, whatever sacrifice/effort we make, it is you who pervades that everywhere in the sky and beyond. It is that energy which also goes into our senses.

Commentary by Ghosh: The Risi here is emphasising that energy is imperishable, it is never lost, only changes its mode. The energy that works in the senses, is also the same that exists in the cosmos. The sky(adhvarnam) figuritively here signifies the mind

Commentary(by me): Agni is known as the messenger or conveyer in the Vedas. He conveys all the sacrifices we make to the celestial regions and brings forth result.

Griffith: Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about
Verily goeth to the Gods.

Rig 1.1.5

Sanskrit transliteration: agnih hota kavikratuh satyah citrasravah-tamahd devah devebhi a gamat

Ghosh:

Word for Word:

agnih: the vital energy
hota: (hu = to invoke) invoker, sacrificer
kavi-kratuh: (kr = to create, generate) creative intelligence
satyah: true, the real
citrasravah-tamah = floating pictures - dispeller of darkness
devah: light, senses
devebhi: by the light, senses
a: onwards, direct
gamat: (gam = to go, to arrive) moves

Translation: For the invoker that calls upon Agni, creative intelligence is awakened, which dispels the darkness caused by the floating pictures in the mind and reveals the true reality. It drives onwards the light which enlightens the senses.

Griffith: May Agni, sapient-minded Priest, truthful, most gloriously great,
The God, come hither with the Gods.

#279

There is no problem translating classical Sanskrit though such as the Gita. There are hundreds of translations of the Gita and the vast majority read the same

Gitartha Samgraha is my personal favorite.

You were too much Surya, worried about nonsense.

Who is your Guru?

#280

Trika Yogi,

I am not worrying about anything. All I am concerned with is what is true. Satyameva Jayate.

I have no Guru at this moment in time. I intend to change that very soon as I decided to allot at least 2 years of my life in India with a guru. I will soon begin my research on which Gurus to check out in India. I am not going to rush into this major life decision without research.