I probably know more about Yoga than you do, my friend.
I certainly practice the values of Yoga, in that I call a spade a spade. I call a savage people, savage. What else do you call a people who practice blood sacrifices?
I think you’re right, I think its time you find a true Guru stat!
I certainly will find a guru. I think, however, you may have to find another one 
Although there are many many evidences of evils of high class brahmins I have just mentioned evidence from life of Dr B.R. Ambedkar.
Next perhaps I should mention I should mention Shri Jyotirao Phule(Marathi: जोतीबा गोविंदराव फुले) (April 11, 1827 ? November 28, 1890), the great 19th century philosopher, scholar and social reformer who rose up against the tyranny of High class Hindus and who denounced Vedas.
Truth can not be kept under wraps for long. Evils of Hindu high classes should be told to the whole world.
Yoga is not Hinduism. Yoga is universal path of self joining with higher self. It is not a property of Hinduism.
Surya you must be blind not to see the evidence.
I just gave you solid proof !
Are you trying to say that Dr B.R. Ambedkar was lying and this never happened with him?
Sigh, I just said I accept that there was an endemic castism problem in the colonial period 
Are you intentially being deaf now?
You have an axe to grind for sure, but you are aiming your axe in the wrong direction. The British are the cause of the oppression of B.R Ambedkar, Shri Jyotiro Phule. You were a prosperous people before the British raped you.
The universal path of self joining with the higher self is exactly what Vedic philosophy teaches. So yes that is Hinduism
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37550]The universal path of self joining with the higher self is exactly what Vedic philosophy teaches. So yes that is Hinduism ;)[/QUOTE]
Strange… Then the Yoga of Kashmir where great saints like Abhinavagupta whom denounced the Vedas must have not known what they were doing.
I think, however, you may have to find another one
Really how so? Lol actually maybe I should have listened to my Guru, he told me to stop posting on internet forums because they are filled with fools.
On the myth that Buddha opposed Hinduism:
T. W. Rhys Davids (1843-1922) in Buddhism p. 34 calls Gautama Buddha “the creature of his times”, of whose philosophy it must not be supposed that “it was entirely of his own creation.” He wrote: “The fact we should never forget is that Gautama was born and brought up and lived and died a Hindu. On the whole, he was regarded by the Hindus of that time a Hindu. Without the intellectual work of his predecessors, his work, however, original, would have been impossible. He was the greatest and wisest and best of the Hindus and, throughout his career, a characteristic India.”
Another myth busted
[QUOTE=Trika_yogi;37551]Strange… Then the Yoga of Kashmir where great saints like Abhinavagupta whom denounced the Vedas must have not known what they were doing.[/QUOTE]
Do you have a citation to prove that Abhinavgupta denounced the Vedas?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37553]Do you have a citation to prove that Abhinavgupta denounced the Vedas?[/QUOTE]
I believe it was from Tantraloka, let me see if i can dig it up.
Btw i want to thank you.
Heheh you remind me of this guy who called himself AncientBuddhism on the Yahoo buddhist chat years ago. All he would do was cite from scripture and parrot things he had read, but from his demeanor you can tell he didn’t practice what he preached.
Man i’m having flashbacks.
Really how so? Lol actually maybe I should have listened to my Guru, he told me to stop posting on internet forums because they are filled with fools.
You seem to lack objectivity. A guru never teaches you to compromise your objectivity. They always teach you to be honest and speak the truth. If your guru has not installed this value in you, perhaps it is time to move on
I always speak the truth without any care for whether I get praise or censure. I genuinely love the truth. Its sad to see that many in the world do not share this.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;37550]Sigh, I just said I accept that there was an endemic castism problem in the colonial period
[/QUOTE]
And that problem was existing in India since time immemorial. It was not a product of colonialism. High class brahmins and kshatriyas were to blame. People who claim otherwise are trying to hide murder one.
The practice of untouchability was not introduced by the British, stop repeating this childish lies.
It is clear to any objective reading that you refuse to listen to any proof or reason. You are being a child. No amount of what you quote can hide the fact that Hindus treated lower castes as untouchables, they were not allowed to enter the temples, the houses, the kitchens of high class. They were not allowed to mix with other people. They were forced to live like animals.
This is a fact, undeniable. And don’t blame britishers, blame high class hindus, blame hindu scriptures. How conveniently you call Manu Smriti as unimportant!
Denying all this is like denying that Holocaust ever took place!
You are deliberately misleading the forum on this issue.
And that problem was existing in India since time immemorial. It was not a product of colonialism. High class brahmins and kshatriyas were to blame. People who claim otherwise are trying to hide murder one.
Prove it.
So far I have shown very clear evidence by citing from some of the most respected scholars that there was no endemic problem of castism in pre-colonial India. It has been proven that Indian schools had a majority lower caste population and punishments for Brahmins were actually more severe than punishments for any other caste for the same crime. In fact it would seem from this it was the Brahmins who were oppressed
You are yet to prove your case.
This is a fact, undeniable. And don’t blame britishers, blame high class hindus, blame hindu scriptures
Really now
Let us see what the evidence says then shall we:
Lord Krishna as saying, in response to the question? “How is Varna (social order) determined?”
“Birth is not the cause, my friend; it is virtues which are the cause of auspiciousness. Even a candala observing the vow is considered a brahmana by the gods.”
“Of Brahmanas, Kshtriyas and Vaishyas, as also the Sudras, O Arjuna, the duties are distributed according to the qualities born of their own nature.” - Bhagavad Gita
“There is no superior caste. The Universe is the work of the Immense Being. The beings created by him were only divided into castes according to their aptitude.” - Mahabharata, Shanti Parva, 188 "
Says the Mahabharata, in the famous dialogue between Yudhishthira and the Yaksha:
?A man does not become a Brahman by the mere fact of his birth, not even by the acquisition of Vedic scholarship; it is good character alone that can make one a Brahman. He will be worse than a Shudra if his conduct is not in conformity with the rules of good behavior.?
Manu sums up their relative status and functions in society in the following verse:
?The Brahman acquires his status by his knowledge, the Kshatriya by his martial vigor; the Vaishya by wealth; and the Shudra by birth alone.?
Now isn’t it interesting that the most respected and powerful sages, kings etc are born Shudras?
Sage Vyasa, a Brahmin sage and the most revered author of the major Hindu scriptures, was the son of Satyavati, a low caste woman. Vyasa’s father, Sage Parasara, had fallen in love with Satyavati, a fisherwoman, and had married her. Vyasa’s deep knowledge of the Vedas later determined the caste of Vyasa as Brahmin sage, and not his birth to a low caste-woman.
Sage Valmiki, the celebrated author of of the epic, Ramayana, was a low caste hunter. He came to be known as a Brahmin sage on the basis of his profound knowledge of the scriptures and his authorship of the Ramayana.
Sage Aitareya, who wrote the Aitareya Upanishad and was born of a Shudra woman.
Rishi Parashar, the famous law-giver was the son of a Chandala, the lowest of the Sudras.
Rishi Vasishta was the son of a prostitute, but honored as a sage.
Sage Vidura, a Brahmin sage who gave religious instruction to Kind Dhritarashtra, was born to a low caste woman servant of the palace. His caste as a Brahmin sage was determined on the basis of his wisdom and knowledge of Dharma Shastras (scriptures).
The Kauravas and Pandavas were the descendants of Satyavati, a low caste fisher-woman, and the sons of Sage Vyasa. Vyasa’s father was the Brahmin Sage Parasara, the grandson of Sage Vasishtha. In spite of this mixed heredity, the Kauravas and Pandavas were known as Kshatriyas on the basis of their occupation.
Chandragupta Maurya was from the Muria tribe, which used to collect peacock (mor) feathers; Samrat Ashok was the son of a daasi.
Saint Thiruvalluvar who wrote Thirukural was only a weaver. Other saints were adored including Kabir, Sura Dasa, Ram Dasa and Tukaram came from the humblest class of Hindu society.
Funny that we see no evidence of this great oppression you talk about
A handful of people who rose in station does not mean that millions of millions who suffered mean nothing. What you say proves nothing.
My case was proven long back in the thread. But you of course continue to deny it.
Most of what you have said in your defense is that Britishers exploited India. That was never an issue of debate. All your citings are just opinions of how British did this and did that.
Britishers did not change the very psyche of common, illiterate villagers all over India to make them practice brutal and evil practice of untouchability and sati.
Of course in todays India Saffron brigade, of who you seem to be a subscriber, has been working overtime to write books and concoct evidence in order to prove high class brahmins right.
But that does not change the fact which I have cited. I proved my case based on ground reality.
You are totally blind to ground reality. You are just in love with yourself and your ego. You cannot see what is actually going on in India.
If you were not blind you would be able to see that the single evidence of Dr B R Ambedkar in itself is larger than all your bookish fantasy world. What the untouchables of this country have suffered and are yet suffering does not need to be proved by books. No scholars are required to do this.
There is hardly any need to go very far, just wikipedia is enough for getting the idea. You go on citing books aimlessly, trying to prove your scholarship.
You are actually proving how insensitive you are, and how far you are from yoga ideals.
The declaration by princely states of Kerala between 1936 and 1947 that temples were open to all Hindus went a long way towards ending the system of untouchability in Kerala. However some historical forms of untouchability existed in Kerala, Nairs and Namboothiris, who constituted the forward castes forbid those belonging to lower castes within certain proximity to them, believing that the presence of lower castes would pollute them.Ezhava and other lower caste were untouchable people in Kerla.Savarna kept Ezhava from many feets than other lower caste .
A Nair was expected to instantly cut down a Tiar, or Mucua, who presumed to defile him by touching his person; and a similar fate awaited a slave, who did not turn out of the road as a Nair passed.[3]
Historically, the people of the Nayadi, Kanisan and Mukkuvan caste were forbidden to come within 72, 32 and 24 feet respectively from Nairs. In modern India, observance of untouchability is a criminal offence.[4]
No intelligent person can assume that Britishers taught this behaviour to Nairs. There is no evidence that they taught this. High class brahmins have practiced this since time immemorial.
Wake up Surya.
Again for the umpteenth time I have proven that Hinduism and Yoga are not one and the same thing.
[QUOTE=whatsinaname;37566]Again for the umpteenth time I have proven that Hinduism and Yoga are not one and the same thing.[/QUOTE]
That has to be proven?? You mean some people think Yoga and Hinduism is the same thing?? What a nutty world we live in. Next we’ll be arguing that fried rice and China are the same thing lol
This proves that Yoga is not exclusive to Hinduism and that yoga is NOT hinduism.
Yoga is the path of self realisation, and union with the supreme being.
Hinduism cannot claim it exclusively just because they coined a word for it before others did. Coining a word (‘yoga’) does not mean you own it.
There were Yogis before vedas came into existence. Those who are great enlightened being say these things. Since humans were created Supreme Being has blessed the path of Yoga to certain indivuduals. Those who walk this path understand this.
Just because the word Yoga is mentioned in Hindu scriptures does not mean Hindus discovered yoga. Yoga is eternal, it was there before even vedas came into being.
Hinduism is a religion which is created by high class brahmins who wanted to rule other classes.
This is clear as daylight
@ Whatsinaname Yes you have. I thank you very much. You articulated your case better than many of could have. But you must realize that no matter what you say or how definitively you prove it, SD won’t budge. He either avoids the statements or shares lopsided proof. And if that doesn’t work, he will tell you that you don’t understand as he is learned, and you need to go back to basics. What you have shared has been very enlightening and I have learned much. Thank you.
Is Yoga Hinduism?
yoga,Hinduism and India are inseparable.
Those who have still doubts in that subject have to go through the basics again.if they do means then no doubts like this arise.
Totally absurd.only Hindu rishis and saints like Patanjali postulated yoga Sutras. They all followed Hinduism. The word “yoga” means union is Sanskrit and this in turn is a Hindu language.there should be no doubt in this whether yoga is Hinduism.
the question is like whether English belongs to British or others.Everyone knows we call British as English people but English is modified to American way or Indian way of talking or many others.Now English is global language but the roots belong to English people.Like wise the same truth holds for yoga. This word is fully handeled in all Hindu scriptures and Sutras almost by all the Rishis saints and sadhus.
if we consider Yoga as a fruit then its seed and roots are from Hinduism and India respectively but it branches of the tree are spreaded everywhere.anyone can follow.
Peoples all over the world using English but we know the roots where it came from like wise Yoga is globally branched everywhere but don’t forget the seed and roots.
if anyone is thinking yoga is not Hinduism they are developing themselves in this yogic field.so its natural to have doubts like this.
Finally to say the topic is not about individual internal systems like Brahmins or Kshatriya’s that are existing in India all those are collectively called as Hindus.
Be it yoga or yogis they are not bounded to any particular religion or nation if u see it from enlightened state but we have to accept where it came from.if u see the same form limited knowledge all this doubts arise.
Jesus is also a yogi,his postulates and teaching are same,but one needs a clear understanding means one has to see from yogic point of view.
If anyone still asks proof better they would study the basics well and get back to argument.
Dinksma, very well said indeed. However, no matter how many times you say it, people like Lotusgirl et al will never accept it. They will simply ignore it, or start condemning you for suggesting such a thing. However, what you have shared and articulated has been most enlightening
Whatisname,
Like I said you are yet to prove your case that casteism was endemic in pre colonial India. I on the other hand have proven my case that it wasn’t. Here is the evidence you have been provided
The actual official state policy and administration of Hindu India during the Maurayan period in the Arthshastra. It shows no evidence of any casteism, but on the contrary shows that Brahmins were held to very high standards of morality and would get more servere punishments for the same crime than a lower class would.
Several citations from Hinduism most holy scriptures that say ones class is decided by ones merit and how a Shudra can rise to the top. It does not say that ones class is decided by birth.
Actual statistics recorded by the British and compiled by Gandhi’s historian which show in pre-colonial India schools had as high as 80% demographic of lower castes studying together with 20% Brahmins.(There was also teachers of Shudra class)
A list of some of the most respected and powerful people in Hindu history all which were born from lower caste. This includes the emperor Chandragupta Mauraya and various Risis who composed the sacred scriptures of Hindu religion known as Vedas.
Citations from respected scholars, many of whom which are English, who reveal that the British deliberately spread propoganda against the Brahmins, because Brahmins were the most educated class and the most critical of British rule. Most of the Indian people involved in the freedom struggle were Brahmins.
You deny your own holocausts and want to believe in the propoganda of people who would if you were alive then, called you a “nigga” and publically flogged you. You are interesting indeed. Like I said I have never met a Jew that denied the holocausts or a black person who denied the slave trade.
Hello again Surya,
Still the same, fractured debate: mistaking the “word” for the meaning of the word. My compassion for you has turned to pity. What a waste of your talent.
siva