Well people practicing Yoga who do not want to about its origins are basically ignorant people.
However, my statement was directed at the people who don’t know much about Hinduism, making comments about Hinduism.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;39845]Well people practicing Yoga who do not want to about its origins are basically ignorant people.
However, my statement was directed at the people who don’t know much about Hinduism, making comments about Hinduism.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am ignorant about Hinduism. But not asanas. I do them for the physical benefits… are you suggesting that there are no benefits in doing asanas?
I just have read in my newspaper about book burning at the University of Mumbai:
The author of the book(s) is Rohinton Mistry, apparently an Indian living in Canada:
I can see a "peaceful" declaration declaration at the University of Mumbai:
"....the author is lucky to live in Canada, otherwise we will burn him as well."
No comment.
You can search the Internet for more details.
Yoga aims to the liberation of the cycle of birth and rebirth (samsara) by the union of our divine Self (atman) with God (Brahman). You can do Yoga asana for health, but that is just the side effect of Yoga, which is a most and foremost a spiritual discipline. Yoga is Hindu? There is no choice to say yes since that Yoga is based on Hindu scripture and come from India. However, when I do Kundalini Yoga as teached by Yogi Bahjan, I know that he was Sikh. So I really think that Yoga a strong Hindu source. However, the question that seems to me interesting is: is Yoga is more Vedic or Tantric? And the the question: Tantra is it Hindu?
[QUOTE=Bliss67;40739]Yoga aims to the liberation of the cycle of birth and rebirth (samsara) by the union of our divine Self (atman) with God (Brahman). You can do Yoga asana for health, but that is just the side effect of Yoga, which is a most and foremost a spiritual discipline. Yoga is Hindu? There is no choice to say yes since that Yoga is based on Hindu scripture and come from India. However, when I do Kundalini Yoga as teached by Yogi Bahjan, I know that he was Sikh. So I really think that Yoga a strong Hindu source. However, the question that seems to me interesting is: is Yoga is more Vedic or Tantric? And the the question: Tantra is it Hindu?[/QUOTE]
Good points, but the answer is not that simple. I recommended the book
Yoga:Freedom and Immortality by Mircea Eliade. He studied in India, practised yoga with Swami Sivananda and in the caves with yogiis. He was a famous religious scholar, professor of History of Religions, University of Chicago.
Just by reading the foreword of the book, you will see how complicated the things are. But the book gives you the answers.
You can download the book from the net.
I’ve been feeling a bit lonely lately and so I’ve unearthed some company for myself…
[I]Swami Sivananda Saraswati[/I]: “Yoga is not a religion, but an aid to the practice of the basic spiritual truths in all religions. Yoga is for all, and is universal.”
[I]Georg Feuerstein[/I]: [To practice yoga] “You need not believe in anything other than the possibility that you can transform yourself.” "…some Yoga practitioners are more religious than others. But Yoga itself is simply a tool for exploring the depth of our human nature, of plumbing the mysteries of the body and the mind.
[I]
Swami Chidananda Saraswati[/I]: “Yoga tends to bring out the inner unity that exists at the central core of all religions, and its non-sectarian techniques bring people closer in spiritual ties of inner unity.”
[I]T.K.V. Desikachar[/I]: “Yoga was rejected by Hinduism… because yoga would not insist that God exists. It didn’t say there was no God but just wouldn’t insist there was… Yoga is not a religion and should not [affiliate] with any religion.”
[I]Swami Rama[/I]: “Yoga is a systematic science; its teachings are an integral part of most religions, but yoga itself is not a religion. Most religions teach one what to do, but yoga teaches one how to be. Yoga practices, however, described in symbolic language, may be found in the sacred scriptures of most religions.”
[I]Swami Satyananda Saraswati[/I]: “In the last two or three decades, when yoga was introduced to the modern world, it was received with some skepticism. At first people thought that it was another religion. But in spite of this young people took up yoga and soon others began to notice its amazing effects. Then the psychologists, medical doctors, criminologists, and philosophers started making investigations and they were surprised to find that yoga is not a religion but a science.”
[I]Shri Ram Sharanam Ashram[/I]: “Yoga is not a religion. it is not necessary for you to believe in a certain god or to chant certain hymns. it is spiritual and ancient science, which leads to health in the body, peace in the mind, happiness in the heart and liberation of the soul.”
[I]Pandit Usharbudh Arya[/I]: “Yoga is not a religion or a church. It requires no belief in a doctrine, no credo. All yoga philosophy is concerned with the experience of meditation and nothing else. It does not require anyone to adhere to a belief system.”
[I]Swami Krishnanda[/I]: “The foundation behind the practice of Yoga, or meditation proper, is the resolution of conflicts and fulfillment of all longings to the utmost extent until one reaches infinity itself. What a grand thing is Yoga! Now we realize! We will be surprised that our very life is there only for that goal. Now we will be able to appreciate that Yoga is not a religion. It is not Hinduism. It is not Buddhism. It is not Christian mysticism. It is not anything of that sort.”
[I]Osho[/I]: “First, yoga is not a religion—remember that. Yoga is not Hindu, it is not Mohammedan. Yoga is a pure science just like mathematics, physics or chemistry. Physics is not Christian, physics is not Buddhist. If Christians have discovered the laws of physics, then too physics is not Christian. It is just accidental that Christians have come to discover the laws of physics. But physics remains just a science. Yoga is a science—it is just an accident that Hindus discovered it. It is not Hindu. It is a pure mathematics of the inner being. So a Mohammedan can be a yogi, a Christian can be a yogi, a Jaina, a Buddhist can be a yogi.”
[I]Swami NadaBrahmananda[/I]: “Yoga is not a religion and can usually be practiced by people of any religious persuasion.”
[I]Swami Viditatmananda Saraswati[/I]: “Yoga need not be identified with a religion. It is based on the fundamental principles of life. It can be practiced by any individual anywhere, at anytime. It does not threaten anything. Yoga teaches us the fundamental principles and prescribes a way of life in keeping with those principles. When we live a life in keeping with fundamental principles, there is harmony. When we live a life in violation of the fundamental principles, there is a disharmony. Harmony is happiness, and disharmony is unhappiness. Yoga is not a religion . Yes, it is integrated in Hinduism, because it evolved in India. But it can be integrated by any individual without violating or sacrificing the tradition within which the individual has grown up. That is why it has been adopted worldwide. People have found that they can retain their faith and their beliefs, yet continue to take advantage of what yoga teaches.”
[I]Swami Maheshwarananda[/I]: “Although we speak a lot of God and say that yoga is the way to God, yoga is not a religion nor a religious sect. God is a universal principle, cosmic light, eternally awake consciousness which pervades all existence.”
Namaste,
InnerAthlete, I also consider that yoga is not a religion, there are no yoga priest, yoga temple, etc. And thank you for the quotes.
The word relgion come from the latin world “religiare”, that means to “linking peoples”. Relgions works a the community level while yoga works at the individual level. I am born roman catholic but right now I do not have any religion belief. Having a scientific background, I like yoga because it is essentially a experimental practice: you do not have to believe, you sense thing, you see the results.
If a yoga teacher talks to me about past lives, I do not judge it as something impossible, but something to experiment. In fact, we do not have to believe to reincarnation, we must be open to that. The same thing with the subtle body, same thing with three planes of existence (physical, astral, causal).
well said bliss67
InnerAthlete
Thank you for that post
Inner Athlete
Thanks for your post. It clearly solves the problem.
I even printed out your post, for future reference.
oh no its that thread…im off scarper:eek:
Gordon,
You should be feeling less lonely now! Thanks for the post. I think many of us at one time or another have sighted these quotes, but you put them all together nice and tidy!
If a yoga teacher talks to me about past lives, I do not judge it as something impossible, but something to experiment. In fact, we do not have to believe to reincarnation, we must be open to that. The same thing with the subtle body, same thing with three planes of existence (physical, astral, causal).
If a yoga teacher talks to me of such things he is preaching religion. He might not think it’s religions, but it is. At the least it is contrary to some religion.
I would not want this type of preaching by a yoga teacher as it is contrary to my religion.
This is the problem I have with those who assert that yoga is not a religion.
They assert it is a science, and that is what I would like to believe, but these same people talk about reincarnation, astral planes, their idea of god, etc. as if they are facts.
[QUOTE=thomas;40829]If a yoga teacher talks to me of such things he is preaching religion. He might not think it’s religions, but it is. At the least it is contrary to some religion.
I would not want this type of preaching by a yoga teacher as it is contrary to my religion.
This is the problem I have with those who assert that yoga is not a religion.
They assert it is a science, and that is what I would like to believe, but these same people talk about reincarnation, astral planes, their idea of god, etc. as if they are facts.[/QUOTE]
Something to consider. We as westerners are very good at compartmentalization of topics. This is religious, this is not religious, this is work, this is not work, etc.
However when you head east it is not so compartmentalized and things kind of blur a bit or are thought of as all part of one thing and there are no separations… but that does not mean everything is religious or not religious…it just means that it is.
If I look at it from a western religious POV that is based on one going to heaven after death and reincarnation is against that then I can see it as falling under religion and only religion
But looking at it from an eastern POV I could say it was religious but I could also say it is not depending on the discussion…it is just how things are. Kind of like talking about Daoist breathing practices and saying Daoism is a religion therefore breathing is religious……
Just a thought…
Sorry Inner Athelete, I didnt realise what thread I was on, then suddenly did(banned myself from here:)) so didn’t stay long to read …hope your not as lonely now. xx
The idea of reincarnation, for example, seems to be so imbedded into the beliefs of those who teach yoga, that they can’t imagine anyone else could believe otherwise, or that anyone would not accept it as a fact, and those who do are rare or closed-minded.
So on the one hand they say all religions are welcome but on the other hand they talk of reincarnation and their idea of god as facts, without considering that their views are in huge conflict with the religious views of others.
It might be an eastern/western thing to some degree, but the fact is that there are those in the west who believe in reincarnation, and there are Christians in the east who reject it.
So as a Christian, I could bring a Christian friend to a yoga class and assure him it is not religion, and that Christians can do yoga, and then he sees the statues pertaining to eastern religions and hears the teacher talking about planes of existence and past lives, and he’s wondering what the heck I’m talking about.
My experience, and I admit I’m somewhat new to this, but not entirely inexperienced, is that no matter where I go to learn about yoga, whether in class in person, or online, those who teach it, even though they say yoga is not a religion, amost always embrace eastern religion beliefs, and somehow incorporate those beliefs into their class. They can’t help themselves because they are so entrenched in those beliefs, and are convinced those beliefs are not “religious,” and cannot grasp that others can’t see them as objective truths, or that they would be rejected on religious grounds.
Swami Maheshwarananda: ?Although we speak a lot of God and say that yoga is the way to God, yoga is not a religion nor a religious sect. God is a universal principle, cosmic light, eternally awake consciousness which pervades all existence.?
He’s telling us that yoga is not a religion but that it’s a way to God.
I thought yoga had no diety.
Why is he telling us that yoga is not a religion and then goes on to tell us about God and proclaim his definition of God as if this is a universal dogma?
[QUOTE=thomas;40838]He’s telling us that yoga is not a religion but that it’s a way to God.
I thought yoga had no diety.
Why is he telling us that yoga is not a religion and then goes on to tell us about God and proclaim his definition of God as if this is a universal dogma?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I had a discussion with a Hindu on this forum and these were his exact words within 2 posts of each other;
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;39984]Anyway I cannot really expect an atheist to understand this. But for most sensible people… [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40023]Haha, you should be the last person to talk about consistency :DI am an athiest because I do not believe in a personal god. [/QUOTE]
It’s s bit like the Christian idea; how God is a omniscient, yet he put the tree of knowledge in the garden of eden, and told Adam and Eve not too eat of it or they shall surely die. Yeah… even though he is all omniscient… so he knew all along they’d eat from the tree, but he put it in the garden anyway. So God owns evil.
If you are after sense, I wouldn’t look for it in religion lol
IA, has certainly introduced a very interesting angle in this thread by presenting the views of these accomplished yogis and swamis. However, is there testimony enough to decide that Yoga is not religion? If you asked these same yogis their beliefs or views they will mention the following:
The purpose of life is to reach self-realization
The soul reincarnates
There is a law of karma
There are various planes of reality(gross, subtle, causal)
One should render selfless service onto the world
The mind is the source of all evil and suffering
We should all strive to become one with god
If you looked at some of their discourses, as I have with many of them, you will find they will all cite predominatly from Hindu scriptures. Most popular sources they use are the Upanishads and the Gita.
So although they may say that Yoga is not a religion and it is not Hinduism, everything they teach is very clearly Hinduism. It seems they have disowned the word “Hinduism” and replaced it with the word “Yoga” But this does not change the fact that Yoga is the philosophy and practice taught in Hinduism and whats its scriptures teach.
One thing that IS very consistent about yourself, is that you seem to fail to comprehend that many, many people practice Yoga for their physical health alone. Indeed, in Australia, it is very, very rare to find a Yoga studio that teaches any Hinduism what so ever. MOST Yoga practiced in Australia, is a form of physical exercise, just like Pilates.
I can appreciate that you may not agree that Yoga is merely a form of physical exercise, however that does not change the fact that many people practice Yoga as a form of exercise.
In a way, you could be compared to the old-fashioned Kung Fu master, who shakes his head in disgust at UFC and Mixed Martial Arts for not being traditional enough. But, that does nothing to change the fact that UFC and MMA are a rapidly growing sports.
Take some consolation in the fact that, the way the world is, and the way you want the world to be are two very different things.