Is Yoga Hinduism?

But SD does make a good point and one that I have noticed myself. Whatever they say about yoga not being a religion is contradicted by the other comments they make.

Those quotes are taken out of context and prove nothing until we see what the overall beliefs and teachings of these people are.

As I mentioned previously, any Hindu or eastern religion source so far that I have found who has asserted that yoga is not a religion, that there is no diety, no religions beliefs to believe, etc. then makes comments about god and reincarnation, as if they are facts.

I agree that it’s possible to take the asanas out of yoga, just like one could take a diet from a religion that preached a certain diet, but I am still unsure that yoga in its entirety cannot be considered to be a religion, or could not contradict a religion. Regardless of whether that’s true or not, it’s hard to find yoga teachers and especially those who teach those teachers, who do not enthusicastically embrace eastern religious beliefs, and speak of them as if they are facts.

And if they are going to claim that their idea of god is cosmic light pervading all, or in transmigration of souls, or that there are astral planes, or that we have auras, etc., and that these concepts are simply part of the “science of yoga,” and not “religious beliefs,” they certainly would be considered to be religious beliefs from the perspective of those of Christian belief, for example, and that these would be religous concepts contrary to their beliefs.

So it perplexes me when Swami Soandso says yoga is not a religion and that Christians may practice it, and then tells the Christian what god is or what “true religion” is.

[QUOTE=thomas;40857]But SD does make a good point and one that I have noticed myself. Whatever they say about yoga not being a religion is contradicted by the other comments they make.

Those quotes are taken out of context and prove nothing until we see what the overall beliefs and teachings of these people are.

As I mentioned previously, any Hindu or eastern religion source so far that I have found who has asserted that yoga is not a religion, that there is no diety, no religions beliefs to believe, etc. then makes comments about god and reincarnation, as if they are facts.

I agree that it’s possible to take the asanas out of yoga, just like one could take a diet from a religion that preached a certain diet, but I am still unsure that yoga in its entirety cannot be considered to be a religion, or could not contradict a religion. Regardless of whether that’s true or not, it’s hard to find yoga teachers and especially those who teach those teachers, who do not enthusicastically embrace eastern religious beliefs, and speak of them as if they are facts.

And if they are going to claim that their idea of god is cosmic light pervading all, or in transmigration of souls, or that there are astral planes, or that we have auras, etc., and that these concepts are simply part of the “science of yoga,” and not “religious beliefs,” they certainly would be considered to be religious beliefs from the perspective of those of Christian belief, for example, and that these would be religous concepts contrary to their beliefs.

So it perplexes me when Swami Soandso says yoga is not a religion and that Christians may practice it, and then tells the Christian what god is or what “true religion” is.[/QUOTE]

Ok, yes. I definitely see your point. I do Iyengar Yoga, and there is never any mention of any religion ever, but in the Satyananda Yoga class that I also attend, there is a subtle ‘supernatural’ feel to it. The teacher does say ‘mind, body and emotions’, instead of ‘mind, body and SPIRIT’, which I do really like, but sometimes she makes us inhale and exhale out of one nostril at a time, which definitely has a more superstitious/religious influence to it. So I guess sometimes the origins creep in now and then. I look at it a bit like Christmas. It’s basically a holiday, but we sing carols and have it on the same day every year, so you can’t help to notice it’s Pagan and Christian origins creep in there.

I am going to do a CORRESPONDENCE TEST between the the teachings of one of the yogis and swamis cited with scriptures of Hinduism:

Swami Rama.

Original quote selected by IA:

"Swami Rama: “Yoga is a systematic science; its teachings are an integral part of most religions, but yoga itself is not a religion. Most religions teach one what to do, but yoga teaches one how to be. Yoga practices, however, described in symbolic language, may be found in the sacred scriptures of most religions.”

Teachings of Swami Rama:

Swami Rama believed in, and taught the universality of the realization of spiritual truths, in the inner chamber of one’s own being. He never asked to be followed or worshipped, or for any change in culture, or for or any conversion of religion. Rather, he encouraged self-awareness through practices of yoga meditation and contemplation, with an attitude of self-reliance. The job of the external teacher, he taught me, is to find the teacher within.

Swami Rama continued to spread the teachings his own teacher had given him, that the first goal is to seek freedom from fears, and second, to seek the direct experience of the absolute reality at the core of your being, the center of consciousness that goes by many names.

He taught that one should “know yourself at all levels,” explaining that "After visiting hundreds of countries I have discovered that all over the world there is one great problem, and that problem is that the human being has not yet understood himself or herself, and tries, instead, to understand God and others

http://www.swamij.com/swami-rama.htm

Direct quotation from Hindu scriptures:

Katha Upanishad, 3.3:

“That” the self of consciousness
Of whom many are not even aware,
And when they are told
Fail to understand
Wonderful is a sage when found
Who is capable of bringing him or her
to self-knowledge.
Wonderful is he or she who realises the Self
of consciousness, when taught by an able
master.

Yogasutras 1.2-1.3:

Yoga is the restraint or cessation of the thought activity in the mind, in order
to reveal the true self.

Bhagvad Gita 2.16-18:

The unreal never comes to be,
The real does never cease to be.
The certainty of both of these
Is known to those who see the truth. (16)
That by Which all is pervaded–
Know That is indestructible.
There is none with the power to
Destroy the Imperishable. (17)
These bodies inhabited by
The eternal embodied Self
Are declared to come to an end.
Therefore now fight, O Bharata.2 (18)

Yoga Vasistha:

“Creation is what one sees and is aware of, and this is within oneself.”

In fact it is safe to say there is not a single Hindu scripture which does not talk about Self and that the ultimate goal of life as to realise this. This doctrine is a recognizably Hindu doctrine and lies at the very heart of Yoga. It is obviously not an orthodox Christian doctrine and practice because Christianity does not teach the doctrine of Self and Self realization. It teaches the doctrine of worship of Jesus as the son of god and living ones live as per his percepts so we can be one with him in heaven after we pass over from here and pass the final trial of jugement day.

It is obviously not an orthodox Islamic doctrine and practice because Islam does not teach the the doctrine of Self and Self-realization. It teaches the doctrine of complete submission to the one and true god whose name is Allah. To pray to Allah 5 times a day, to make pilgramage to Mecca and Medina in order to win a place in heaven after we pass over from here and pass the final trial of judgement day.

It is obviously not an orthodox Buddhist doctrine and practice because Buddhism does not teach the doctrine of Self and Self-realization. It is teaches the doctrine of nothingness and no-self. To completely reduce oneself to nothingness so that one becomes a part of the constant changing flow of nature

What orthodox religion teaches the doctrine of Self and Self-realization in this world? Hinduism. Swami Rama is a Hindu guru teaching a Hindu doctrine and a Hindu practice.

Ok, yes. I definitely see your point. I do Iyengar Yoga, and there is never any mention of any religion ever, but in the Satyananda Yoga class that I also attend, there is a subtle ‘supernatural’ feel to it. The teacher does say ‘mind, body and emotions’, instead of ‘mind, body and SPIRIT’, which I do really like, but sometimes she makes us inhale and exhale out of one nostril at a time, which definitely has a more superstitious/religious influence to it. So I guess sometimes the origins creep in now and then. I look at it a bit like Christmas. It’s basically a holiday, but we sing carols and have it on the same day every year, so you can’t help to notice it’s Pagan and Christian origins creep in there.

I don’t think any kind of Yoga can be separated from Hindu teachings, even if one focusses on the asanas only. First of all, many of the asanas are themselves prayers to Hindu deities. The famous Surya Namaksar sequence, for example, which is also present in Iyengar Yoga, is a salutation to the Hindu sun deity. The Nataraja asana is a prayer to the Hindu deity Shiva.

Secondly, the asanas are based on Hindu metaphysics of their being a suble body(aka astral body) which contains a network of pranic channels, chakras. The asanas have been designed with these metaphysical entities in mind in order to faciliate the flow of prana in the body and release blockages. Ultimately, Hatha Yoga(which is what Iyengar Yoga is) has a religious purpose to awaken the Kundalini and reach enlightenment.

Thirdly, the asanas themselves incorporate many of the higher practices of Hinduism. They incorporate controlled breathing(pranayama) and focus and concentration(dharana) in holding a posture and awareness(dhyana). These practices are designed as such in order for one to be able to realise personal fulfillment. This very much ties in with the Hindu teachings that the body can be used as a means to self-realization or actualization and/or to better states of being.

So if you are doing any kind of Yoga you are already endorsing Hinduism in some form.

To what diety am I praying when I do a headstand?

I’m praying even if I don’t believe I’m praying, don’t want to pray, and don’t know anything about any prayer attached to the asana?

Is a runner doing a yoga-type stretch to warm up doing an asana and praying to Hindu diety? Is the gymnast doing a handstand endorsing Hinduism?

I don’t care if a Hindu uses a headstand to pray to a particular diety. That doesn’t mean I do when I do a headstand and it doesn’t mean I believe in that diety.

I believe that asanas bring me to a better state of being. I can put my socks on effortlessly. I can turn around when I back up in my car.

They help me stretch, tone my muscles, and keep in good overall health.

And going to yoga classes keeps me out of trouble.

It’s a good hobby.

Not all the asanas are dedicated to Hindu deities, many of them are. All asanas are however based on Hindu metaphysics.

The cuture we are living in today is already Hindu. Yogiadam does not realise it, but some of his views are clearly Hindu. Hinduism teaches individuality and self-fulfillment as the purpose of life. It teaches everybody should form their own opinions, judgements and beliefs based on their own experiences and logic and everybody should strive to actualise all their aspects: social, physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. The pursuit of happiness, health and harmony is the highest religious goal of Hinduism.

This culture was not present in the West until the age of enlightenment. Prior to this the belief was that one should live a moral life as dictated by the Church.

I believe that asanas bring me to a better state of being. I can put my socks on effortlessly. I can turn around when I back up in my car.

They help me stretch, tone my muscles, and keep in good overall health.

Absolutely, but there was a time when you as a Christian would be considered a heretic for glorifying the body and giving any importance to its health and appearance at all. You have already subscribed to the cult of the body.

Similarly, the practice of meditation will help you develop tolerance, paitence, clarity and focus.

Combine the two and you have achieived what Hinduism tells you to do: actualization

Absolutely, but there was a time when you as a Christian would be considered a heretic for glorifying the body and giving any importance to its health and appearance at all. You have already subscribed to the cult of the body.

No, it’s not and never was wrong to exercise or take care of the body. The body is good, and should be well-cared for.

But getting back to the point about an asana being an act of worship to a god–that’s only if there is that intent.

If there is no intent to worship then it’s not an act of worship, or else going into a pose by accident would also be an act of worship.

And while I’m thinking about it, I called you a “nincompoop” in another thread, and my apologies for that.

It says it very clearly in the bible that one should deny the body. One should renounce all their possessions, all their desires and impulses for sensory gratification, their relationships and get behind Jesus and follow his way. Anybody that cannot do that is not worthy of Jesus’s path. Blessed are the poor for they will inherit the kingdom of god. Never did Jesus say that we should look after our body by doing exercise and following a healthy balanced diet. Never did he say we should look after our minds by doing meditation and breathing exercises.

The health-consciousness that we see today is modern in the history of the West. There was no sanitation systems until the late medieval ages. The idea of hygeine did not appear until the 17th century. If you were living in premodern times in the West your body and health would not hold any importance. Your main purpose in life would have been dictated by the Church and that is to live according to how the bible says. It says nothing about doing exercise.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40860]I don’t think any kind of Yoga can be separated from Hindu teachings, even if one focusses on the asanas only. First of all, many of the asanas are themselves prayers to Hindu deities. [/QUOTE]

Ok, so you claim that Yoga has zero benefit for physical health. It has helped me loose weight and correct my posture. I’ve never heard a Yoga practitioner claim that asana have absolutely no benefit to our physical well being.

You have used that strawman at least twice with me before Yogiadam and I have responded the same way both times. I never said Yoga does not have any benefit for the physical health, in fact it is incredibly beneficial to the physical health.

I should just mention that for myself (and possible others, but I can’t speak for them), that if your going to use Hindu scriptures to make a point, I not going to bother reading them. You may as well put the genealogies from the Bible, for what use it brings… ‘And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon…’ … scripture=pointless

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40868]You have used that strawman at least twice with me before Yogiadam and I have responded the same way both times. I never said Yoga does not have any benefit for the physical health, in fact it is incredibly beneficial to the physical health.[/QUOTE]

It’s not a straw-man if you consider that you are trying to fuse physical benefit and religious significance into one concept. They are separate, and if you chose to create a fusion between the two, I can’t let you blur that little line.

It says it very clearly in the bible that one should deny the body.

Verse and chapter please…

Never did Jesus say that we should look after our body by doing exercise and following a healthy balanced diet

Maybe because that’s just plain common sense. Never did he say we should eat unhealthy foods or be couch potatoes either.

If you were living in premodern times in the West your body and health would not hold any importance. Your main purpose in life would have been dictated by the Church and that is to live according to how the bible says. It says nothing about doing exercise.

So if health is not important, then Jesus and the apostles would not have healed the sick.

Our relationship with the world changes in some ways according to the times, technology, and advances in medicine and sceince.

But the purpose of the Church is the same today as it was from day one–to help people get to Heaven.

That is because you are insecure and feel threatened by scripture because it challenges your viewpoint on life. If somebody is secure and impartial they can read anything and everything, and not be afraid of being converted to another viewpoint.

In any case I am not appealing to Hindu scripture to prove a point here but to show correspondences between Yoga, its theory, practice and values and its source in Hinduism. You like Yoga, or at least a part of it, therefore you like Hinduism, or at least a part of it.

Stop trying to pretend you are religiously neurtral, when clearly you are endorsing Hinduism by embracing Yoga and the values of Hinduism, as life being about ones own self-fulfillment and the pursuit of happiness.

as life being about ones own self-fulfillment and the pursuit of happiness

EVERYONE wants happiness and self-fulfillment. This is not unique to Hinduism.

And please don’t forget to demonstrate that it shows clearly in the bible that we should deny the body.

It does say we should deny ourselves, pick up the cross, and follow Christ. But it says nowhere that we should deny the body as a way of life. We should deny the body fornication, gluttony, and any other use to commit sins, but that’s different.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;40872]That is because you are insecure and feel threatened by scripture because it challenges your viewpoint on life…[/QUOTE]

lol Nice try. It’s not due to my ‘insecurity’ that I won’t read scriptures, but more because there is no reason to take them seriously PLUS there is reason to take them as meaningless babble… 'And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias… ’

I will have to go digging in my bible. Bear with me for a while, and I will cite directly from it.

Maybe because that’s just plain common sense. Never did he say we should eat unhealthy foods or be couch potatoes either.

I never assume anything. What is common sense today was not common sense back then. The notion of “healthy” and “unhealthy” food did not exist back then because we were not aware of things like germs, cholesterol, carbs, fat and how sugars decay teeth etc In fact, we had little choice in what we ate back then, it was basically whatever we could eat. The average life expectacy was a lowly 30 years during the times of Jesus. The streets were festered with feaces and urine. This is why Europe was hit by so many plagues.

Today, is a different time because we are health conscious. Personal development and health is one of the main values of people living in this time and age. It was not the same in premodern times, where the vast majority of people were peasents living in destitution.

So if health is not important, then Jesus and the apostles would not have healed the sick.

In that time health was healed by using superstitious medicine, blood letting and magical potions and other unscientific practices. There was little to no understanding about health and maintaining health. If you were hit by disease, only then would action be taken.

But the purpose of the Church is the same today as it was from day one–to help people get to Heaven.

Yep, during that time this was the main concern of people living in the West. To get to heaven by obeying the the code the Church dictated. To not sin.

It can indeed be argued that naturally everybody wants happiness and self-fulfillment.

But… this is not what Christianity teaches my friend. You said it yourself: the main function of the Church was to get people in heaven. That was the goal of life according to Christianity. Not self-fulfillment and happiness.

Christianity does not teach that the goal of life is self-fulfillment and happiness. In fact it teaches that these are rewards one is given in heaven by god in the AFTER-LIFE.

Hinduism is the only religion that teaches that one can attain self-fulfillment and happiness in the HERE AND NOW LIFE. It is the only religion that teaches that one should should remain physically and mentally healthy and gives practices like exercise, diet, lifestyle regulations, meditation, breathing exercises, visualization exercises for you to do that.

So in a way the current way of life of people in this day and age is very inline with Hinduism. Maybe that is because Hinduism is a natural religion? :wink: