Is Yoga Hinduism?

Namaste Aware,

To Hindus national identity is very important. India is not just a country to us, it is our matrabhoomi(Motherland) and we worship her by saying Vaande Mataram(Hail to the motherland) The word “Hindu” itself is a geographical identity, and refers to the people of the Indus(Sindhu) Thus it refers the way of life, culture, philosophy and spirituality of India. Thus India and Hinduism are inseparable.

Now why is the identity Hindu so important to be me and why am I proud of it, and why would I actually fight for it. It is important because this is the holy land of our risis, sages and holy saints from the Vedic Risis, to Mahavira, Buddha, Sankara, Guru Nanak. It represents their teachings and we forever acknowledge our debt the holy sages by remembering them and their teachings.

Before I use to call myself spiritual, until I realised that I was not only just spiritual, I had accepted every Hindu doctrine: The law of karma and reincarnation, the law of dharma, the science, philosophy and practice of Yoga. So I decided to give back to this great tradition by becoming a part of it.

Those in the West who respect this tradition have not given back to this tradition. They simply take, take and take from it. They take Vedanta, they take Yoga, they take Ayurveda, but give nothing back to the great religion that invented all of these. You give back by becoming an adherent of that great religion and passing the teachings on and perpetuating the eternal religion.

The Vedic sages said clearly, “Make the whole world Aryan”

This is why the history, philosophy, culture and traditions of India are very important to me. History is especially important, because history is important to understand our heritage. All humans have a right to know this, not just Indians. The people in the world today have a right to know of their noble Aryan heritage and how India was the motherland of all civilisations in the past.

Unfortunately, our history has been distorted by Western scholars(originally Christian scholars) who invented Aryan invasion theory and made our great sages look like savages. Although we have had recorded history going back 10,000 years back to the ending of the last ice age, Western scholars were so prejudiced they declared the beginning of our civilisation in 1200BCE. They sought the latest dates possible for all our important historical figures(Buddha, Mahavira) in order to maintain their Abrahamic history as the oldest and Mesopotamia as the cradle. They mistranslated our great Vedic scripture to add insult to injury. Then when they discovered that our civilisation was indeed older than 1200BCE, when they discovered accidentally the Indus valley civilisation, they made up theories of Aryan/Dravidian wars, because they could not admit the Vedic civilisation went back 10,000 years. Today, the massive archeological evidence which has been unearthed is very clearly showing there was no such thing as Aryan/Dravidian racial dichotomy and the Indus valley civilisation was a vedic one.

This was known even at the time Aryan invasion theory was put forward by Christian missionary scholars. Playfair, a major astronomer and mathematician at the time declared that the astronomical details recorded in the Vedas would place the Vedas no later than 4000BCE. The Christian scholars retorted back him, “The Brahmins back-dated these astronomical details to make them look like they were taken at the time” When German linguists examined the translations rendered by Max Muller, they were horrified as to how bad his translation was and publically criticised his works. Even Max Muller later admitted his Aryan invasion theory was total guess work.

Today, the preponderance of evidence is so clearly showing that Vedic civilisation has a continuous history in India going back 10,000 years, but Western scholars still brush it under the carpet. It is acts like this that are turning Hindus nationalists. We want our history to be told correctly and our rightful place in the world be acknowledged.

We are no different to any other civilisation on this planet which have fought to get their history acknowledged and represented - the Chinese, Africans, Jews, Muslims. The first gesture of goodwill that the West can put forward to win our trust is to admit the distortions they have made on our history and set things right.

Thank you for saying what I did not want to waste the effort to.

Regarding Hindu colonization of America. Read this article and see what judgements you arrive at: http://hindufocus.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/who-discovered-america/

Hindus were not imperialists like the Europeans. They had colonies all over the world, but these were only places for cultural and financial exchange, and not political, cultural or economic domination. This is known by historians as “Greater India” The colonies included Java, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand in South-East-Asia, Asia-pacific and colonies in Egypt, Persia, Arabia and Western Europe. India was very much the centre of the world in those times.

Western scholars are more interested in the history of Indo-Europe so they look at the only the Aryan movements in the West. However, Aryan movements did not just happen in the West, they happened all over the world.

An interesting excerpt:

The Aryans’ footprints are found throughout neighboring Southeast Asia. They were skilled navigators and pioneers of many cultural developments. According to several sources, these Aryans ruled in Java, Bali, Sumatra, Borneo, Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Annan, Burma, and Thailand until the fourteenth century. Even today, the kings of Thailand bear the title Rama after the Indian Ramraja (the perfect kingdom said to have been governed by the incarnation of Godhead Ramachandra). And the story of Ramayana is depicted on the palace walls in Bangkok.

Cambodia, the ancient Kamboja, boasts the largest temple complex in the world, named Ankor, from the Sanskrit language meaning “the capital city.” It was built in the ninth century c.e. in honor of the Hindu god Vishnu. The complex extends over an area more than twice the size of Manhattan and took thirty-seven years to complete. Its physical and spiritual grandeur is found elsewhere only in ancient Greece, Egypt, and among the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. Cambodia’s principle river is today called Me Kong, which some scholars say is derived from India’s Ma Ganga (Mother Ganges).

Vietnam, once called Champa, figures prominently as a stepping-stone in the story of India’s cultural expansion to the Americas. Furthermore, the Hindu state of Java was founded by the king of Kalinga (Orissa) in the first century c.e. Java is said to be the ancient Yava-Dveepa mentioned in the Ramayana and other Sanskrit texts. The Indonesian national flag flies the symbol of Garuda, the bird carrier of Vishnu. Garuda is also the national symbol of that country.

Oh thanks for the info on Hindu “colonization” of the Americas. I have to go now, but I will read it later.

I am not sure whether Hindus discovered America, but they certainly did colonize it and they left their Aryan footprint on it. It is very clearly visible in Mayan and Aztec culture. Remember, our ancient Sanskrit texts like the Mahabharata explicitly mention the Mayans by name.

Of course I am not at all claiming the Native Americans are our spiritual counterparts. We knew them as danavas, because they ate flesh and conducted human sacrifice and acts of cannibalism. However, we recognised them as great architects and astronomers. They were ultimately exiled from Aryavarta, along with the Yavanas and other reneogade groups. I do not hold romantic views about Native America as new-agers do, it is very clear to see this culture was fairly savage.

I saw a lecture by a guy a few years ago where he had pictures of architectural finds from Peru and Mexico that were little statuettes of people practicing classical asanas.

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;44879]Namaste Aware,

To Hindus national identity is very important. India is not just a country to us, it is our matrabhoomi(Motherland) and we worship her by saying Vaande Mataram(Hail to the motherland) The word “Hindu” itself is a geographical identity, and refers to the people of the Indus(Sindhu) Thus it refers the way of life, culture, philosophy and spirituality of India. Thus India and Hinduism are inseparable.

Now why is the identity Hindu so important to be me and why am I proud of it, and why would I actually fight for it. It is important because this is the holy land of our risis, sages and holy saints from the Vedic Risis, to Mahavira, Buddha, Sankara, Guru Nanak. It represents their teachings and we forever acknowledge our debt the holy sages by remembering them and their teachings.

Before I use to call myself spiritual, until I realised that I was not only just spiritual, I had accepted every Hindu doctrine: The law of karma and reincarnation, the law of dharma, the science, philosophy and practice of Yoga. So I decided to give back to this great tradition by becoming a part of it.

Those in the West who respect this tradition have not given back to this tradition. They simply take, take and take from it. They take Vedanta, they take Yoga, they take Ayurveda, but give nothing back to the great religion that invented all of these. You give back by becoming an adherent of that great religion and passing the teachings on and perpetuating the eternal religion.

The Vedic sages said clearly, “Make the whole world Aryan”

This is why the history, philosophy, culture and traditions of India are very important to me. History is especially important, because history is important to understand our heritage. All humans have a right to know this, not just Indians. The people in the world today have a right to know of their noble Aryan heritage and how India was the motherland of all civilisations in the past.

Unfortunately, our history has been distorted by Western scholars(originally Christian scholars) who invented Aryan invasion theory and made our great sages look like savages. Although we have had recorded history going back 10,000 years back to the ending of the last ice age, Western scholars were so prejudiced they declared the beginning of our civilisation in 1200BCE. They sought the latest dates possible for all our important historical figures(Buddha, Mahavira) in order to maintain their Abrahamic history as the oldest and Mesopotamia as the cradle. They mistranslated our great Vedic scripture to add insult to injury. Then when they discovered that our civilisation was indeed older than 1200BCE, when they discovered accidentally the Indus valley civilisation, they made up theories of Aryan/Dravidian wars, because they could not admit the Vedic civilisation went back 10,000 years. Today, the massive archeological evidence which has been unearthed is very clearly showing there was no such thing as Aryan/Dravidian racial dichotomy and the Indus valley civilisation was a vedic one.

This was known even at the time Aryan invasion theory was put forward by Christian missionary scholars. Playfair, a major astronomer and mathematician at the time declared that the astronomical details recorded in the Vedas would place the Vedas no later than 4000BCE. The Christian scholars retorted back him, “The Brahmins back-dated these astronomical details to make them look like they were taken at the time” When German linguists examined the translations rendered by Max Muller, they were horrified as to how bad his translation was and publically criticised his works. Even Max Muller later admitted his Aryan invasion theory was total guess work.

Today, the preponderance of evidence is so clearly showing that Vedic civilisation has a continuous history in India going back 10,000 years, but Western scholars still brush it under the carpet. It is acts like this that are turning Hindus nationalists. We want our history to be told correctly and our rightful place in the world be acknowledged.

We are no different to any other civilisation on this planet which have fought to get their history acknowledged and represented - the Chinese, Africans, Jews, Muslims. The first gesture of goodwill that the West can put forward to win our trust is to admit the distortions they have made on our history and set things right.[/QUOTE]
Namaste Surya,

Please note I liked your purist type of reasoning in the other thread on the inquiry of the soul. This is why I am so surprised with the present thread, where subjective feelings have an overtone over objective factual observations.

Please note I have nothing against Hindus. My wife is a Hindu and so are my children. There is not the slightest form of racism in me - a thing Nietzsche accused me of. I had no clue that Indian people deny the Arya invasion doctrine- I was not even aware of the fact that this theory was under dispute. You know I am a biochemistry scientist, not an archeologist.

So far the disclaimers.

I recently had a discussion with a colleague of mine who is a convinced christian. As you know I am a renegade with regard to christianity and have embraced Vedanta. A point of view I was trying to convince him of, and which I?d also like to convince everybody of- is that there is no people of chosen-ones. The Jews may think they were elected by God, that Israel is the sacred country; The Hindus may think they were elected by God, that India is the sacred country etc. in fact all religions and people claim such a notion. All religions claim to be the sole and only truth.

But if you look close enough, you’ll find that enlightened people have appeared in different cultures. Even among the pagan people of Romans, (who had a very barabaric and violent culture) Plotinus describes an experience, which is in no way different from what enlightened yogis etc. have revealed.

I do not believe that enlightenment or access to God is restricted by your geographical or cultural origin. If your inquiry and inetntions are pure, you’re bound to get there.

That you have a strong affiliation with your culture is a normal behaviour. There is almost no human being who does not have such feelings. Strangely enough I am also dissapointed when the Dutch soccer team loses. Yet I do consider this type of my affiliation therewith a stupid mindf***. An investment of energy in something, which is not going to bring me anything. One of impediments on our road to freeing ourselves is our Ego and are our attachments. Attachments to people, attachments to culture, attachments to mental concepts.

But it is all an identification which something we are not! It is all an identification with the good old prakrti.

You of all people must know about the granthis. Cut them through.

Now you are most probably right that many things which originated from Indian soil have not gotten the credit they are entitled to. I that the western judeao-christian culture has for too long a period been the ruling paradigm. It has gotten us in a dark world indeed.

But to fight for a Hinduism as the only paradigm gets you exactly in their camp of intolerance as regards other cultures. Worse, it gets you in the world of fanatism -so well known from Islam.

Do you truly think that battle will bring peace to your heart? That it will open the gates of non-attachment to this world of matter, people, concepts, desires? Come on, I know you are smarter than that.:wink:

When you say Om, Bhur, bhuva, svah, you humbly turn to [B]All[/B] living beings on all planes of existence to ask them to shine their light on you. There is no election or preference at that moment. Sometimes we must learn from painful, hard and difficult experiences. I am grateful for the mistakes I make, because by becoming aware of them I can transcend them. I have no preference for my encounters - not even with my enemies. They are a source of knowledge as well.

So I do not claim that anything you have said is wrong or untrue, but I have the impression that this type of mental battle is one that leads you away rather towards kaivalya.

How I wish more English would be spoken around here…

All that I know is that an iron fist but be used to rid Christianity and Islam of its negative ideology. And you misunderstand me; I do not wish to sink to the level of a Islamic fundamentalist and start killing people for Hinduism. My style of victory is making Indians aware of negative influences of Christianity and Islam and teaching them fight intellectually against them even if it means inveighing or launching polemical attacks (of civil kind). The greatest victory of all is making people realize the validity of your ways. Note that I am only attack Islam and Christianity; I show the same respect to all other faiths and philosophies as I do to my own.

I too have long noticed that most civilizations have produced enlightened people with respect to their cultures. The same cannot be said for Christianity and Islam however. I have nothing to add to this that Surya Deva has not said.

All that matters is that Islam and Christianity have sunken to new lows and they must be rid of their intolerant views, as must their ignorant followers. If they resist…then all that can be done is to make others cognizant of how foolish they are. Doing all this will achieve a lasting stability in this world and greater unity among all humankind.

Oh great, that was some incredibly horrendous grammar. What I tried to convey was “I am only attack[I]ing[/I]” and “Muslims and Christians have sunk to new lows and they must get/be rid of their intolerant views” and “Doing all this will create.”

By the way Surya Deva, the evidence you provided me was, no offense, lacking in direct archeological proof. All it mostly did (for proving Indian colonization of Americas) was cite certain people, whose scholarly status and work is very much under scrutiny, who wanted to aggrandize Hinduism’s glory in the light of increasing amounts “Indophobia” (among other ulterior motives). Although I appreciate their efforts, the scientist in me cannot bring myself to accept such spurious evidence, regardless of how it might appeal to my prejudices.

I wasn’t criticizing any grammar.

I’m referring to all the terms that are used that I don’t have a clue what they mean.

But I don’t have time to list them. I’m on my way out the door to Mass. I heard the homily will be about how to effectively persecute Hindus, and I don’t want to miss it.

[QUOTE=thomas;44942]I wasn’t criticizing any grammar.

I’m referring to all the terms that are used that I don’t have a clue what they mean.

But I don’t have time to list them. I’m on my way out the door to Mass. I heard the homily will be about how to effectively persecute Hindus, and I don’t want to miss it.[/QUOTE]

No no silly Thomas, I was merely pointing out MY horrendous grammar. I wasn’t responding to your post at all. Well then, I hope you enjoy the Mass. :rolleyes:

Oh, sorry.

Yes, the Mass was ok, but disappointing. We were not given one tip on how to pick on Hindus. I guess we’re on our own.

Thomas, I’m afraid there will always be lots of foreign terms used in discussion of yoga, because, you see, it comes from Hinduism!

Nietzsche, Christianity and Islam have produced many saints, but you are not aware of them, because you are not from that culture. A Christian might equally say that Christianity has produced many saints, but India has produced none, simply through a similar lack of awareness.

May be Christianity is yoga as well.

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.

Jesus Lived in India

Jesus in India - The Movie

Yes Seeker, thank you for being the very person I said Hindus must guard against; someone who will subvert our practices to enrich Christianity and eventually claim it as intrinsic to Christianity. Thank you for the links but I do not want to watch Christian propaganda. And Dharma, I would consider none of those saints truly enlightened, bound as they were by their Christian dogma which entails things all too familiar to the rest of us.

[QUOTE=thomas;44953]Oh, sorry.

Yes, the Mass was ok, but disappointing. We were not given one tip on how to pick on Hindus. I guess we’re on our own.[/QUOTE]

I love your sense of humor. Perhaps I could provide tips? :smiley:

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;44969]Yes Seeker, thank you for being the very person I said Hindus must guard against;[/QUOTE]
[B]Saints don?t have religion.
[/B]

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;44969]Dharma, I would consider none of those saints truly enlightened, bound as they were by their Christian dogma which entails things all too familiar to the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

That seems very judgemental to me. Are you familiar with [I]every[/I] non-Hindu saint?

Think how many fraudulent “saints” there are in India. To a Christian outsider, it seems that India is the place with no truly enlightened beings, just people on beds of nails, or staring into the sun. The true saints of India tend to keep themselves from the spotlight. Why assume it would be different for the real saints from elsewhere?