Is Yoga Hinduism?

Spirituality Religion
#561

Yes, yoga means connection with God. But it means it BEYOND DOGMAS, i. e.
beyond religion, like a personal contact with God.

So there IS a diety in yoga, contrary to what swami soandso said to the contrary.

What does this mean a “personal contact with God.” That’s what religions are for. I don’t accept the premise that religions (at least my own religion) has “excess baggage” and that yoga is better and more direct. But if it is a connection to God, how can it not be a religion?

And is it still a connection to God if someone doesn’t want to use yoga for that purpose, or is he not doing yoga if he’s not stiving to that end?

#562

thomas we got levels of reality .The practice is adjusted to the levels like a telescope the len is adjusted to the reality or the view that you want to see.some yogis can conect with the natural expression of brahaman other with the personal like Isvara and other with the abstract and more highest principal.But anyways this is more bla bla bla and I want the real stuff.

#563

The religious act is allways more less a condition for religion and yoga.Now yoga has an open meaning not sectarious.cause the principals that I mention in my other thread are in every man.

#564

[QUOTE=oak333;43076]Yes, yoga means connection with God. But it means it BEYOND DOGMAS, i. e.
beyond religion, like a personal contact with God.

You can meditate and prey on your chosen deity (Jesus Christ, Khrishna…)as a step towards God. The chosen deity is RELIGION. But your chosen deity is not essential in yoga.[/QUOTE]

As far as I understood the difference between Yoga and Sankhya is that Yoga does involve surrender to the deity (Isvara Pranidhana) whereas Sankhya is without deity. Perhaps it’s time to recognise that Yoga without deity could better be called Sankhya. For me (and that is a personal opinion, not a statement of a verifiable fact) Yoga is religion in its absolute sense: reconnect to God. I do not believe that the technique of ashtanga yoga could only be practised by Hindus. The choice of the isvara will depend on your sociocultural context. I agree that Yoga is not Religion in the narrow sense i.e. a dogmatic world religion. Both the definitions of the terms Religion and Yoga appear to have undergone some erosion. Perhaps it’s time to get the definitions back to their original sense and not to the fraught contemporary meanings. This discussion is mostly semantic: what does a term mean…

#565

Just to back up others comments

For Thomas, especially

It doesn’t matter if you practice Yoga and choose Jesus, as your ‘deity’ Thomas, it really doesn’t matter. The reason it doesn’t matter is because when your mind is right, through practice (I wont get into the detachment of mind etc) but when the [B]mind is still[/B] say, The inner Guru, Isvara Thomas, will present itself in Human ethereal form, in front of you,

In Christianity, you refer to it as a [B]vision[/B], a vision of the Virgin Mary, say…[B]this is Isvara[/B], [I]your[/I], inner Guru presentation that you can relate to and hence, appears in this form, the Virgin Mary.

If you were a Buddhist, practicing Buddhism, Isvara will be presented in vision (for ease of explanation) form as a Buddha…

Visions are a presenting of the Inner Guru, Isvara, in a form that relates to your personal deity you have chosen. BUT there is also another factor that is an exception to this.

The word relate holds an important exception

If your Fathers lineage, line, has been steeped in say Buddhism, then your father marries an English woman and they now live in England and have a child that chooses Christianity, Isvara,(or Ishvara) inner Guru, can present as a vision in the form of a Buddha and not what you might expect. The strength of your fathers lineage and your possible previous lives being steeped in Buddhism will be the reason for this vision being a Buddha.

I know I am bringing the question of reincarnation into this…try and ignore this stirring Thomas…I know you have different views so view this comment as the strength of your Fathers lineage, for the moment and lets not go down the reincarnation path on this occasion.

Throughout history, we have heard of Visions people have had, the bible has many references, and the visions people have had belong to all different cultures and their religions say…they are all Isvara, the inner Guru.

A little story…

I was listening, on TV, to an African born Senior Registrar (Doctor in England, same America?)
He was in Charge of the hospital recent admissions from Accident and Emergency in to long stay wards. He worked in a large Californian Hospital, and as I said, held a senior post. He had lived in America most of his life.

He worked long hours and decided to use meditation in his breaks or when ever possible…On one occasion, whilst meditating, he was presented with a nearly 6ft vision of an African ethereal in form, man, a couple of feet away from him. …The Doctor thought he had finally cracked up but was led to not think so…the form, Isvara, black, african looking, beckoned him to follow him…Tthe Doctor said it was also a kiNd of telepathic connection he was having with this ‘man’, as well… He got up, followed the ‘man’ who led him to the bedside of a very sick woman who was very terminal, due to die at any minute. The ethereal Isvara man beckoned the Doctor to watch… the Doctor said he then saw the woman who had just died, raise herself in spirit form, off the bed, she then turned, looked at him, smiled and walked through the wall.
He had treated this woman for a number of years before she got to this final terminal point.

This obviously this had a profound effect on the Doctor who then took a year out to go in search of spiritual information. He came to understand the figure he saw was steeped in his fathers religion/culture…he mentioned that the ethereal vision being was an ajante…BUT I am unsure of the spelling and pronunciation, this is what it sounded like he said.

So, to sum up…Do Yoga and choose your deity to suit your beliefs…unless you belong to the exception in this and might get a surprise…:smiley:

I hope this helps and backs up what others have said on this.

#566

Awwwwwware you got It buddy thats what I mean always dont get caught up in the words.(semantical trick).

#567

The saying “Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti” should answer this debate. Yoga originated in India, was deeply thought on and practices for self realisation were devised. Hinduism revolves around the eternal truth - that there is only one universal force (Paramatman/God) and that we are fragments of it. But as our scriptures say “Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti” - There is only one truth (God ?) -Sages refer to it by various names or to expand -there is only one God - he can be reached by various paths.

This being so, we can at best say that Yogic practices evolved in India. But if we admit the truth that there is only one God, by definiton this stands good for all living beings and therefore to say that you cannot acheive self realisation unless you are a Hindu is not logical.

Yoga therefore was given to the world by India, but anyone can use the path irrespective of his faith to achieve self realisation. To say otherwise is equivalent to saying that the Law of Gravity does not apply to any eastern coountry because it was discovered by Newton ! If one does not subscribe to this position, then one must also accept that Yoga (the eight limbed one - not dog yoga and sex yoga and so forth !!) is a tool for acheiving union with the divine, irrespective of being a Hindu or not.

#568

reaswaran everything was good till you said not sex yoga and so forth!So yep go back and find the donkey killer my friend.(yep thats how I call wikipedia).The eight limbed is not the only yoga and by the way is not the yoga by exelence to evolve in the kali yuga.

#569

[QUOTE=teitan;43713] and by the way is not the yoga by exelence to evolve in the kali yuga.[/QUOTE]

Teitan,

Ah yes. Perhaps an excessive bit of trying to make a point on my part. Hope I have not offended you.

Anyway the point I was making is that a tool remains a tool which can be used by anyone, irrespective of the faith or location etc of the one who produced the tool.

About other types of Yoga ? The word Yoga is derived from the Sanskrit root “yuk” meaning to join or unite. This joining is that of the individual soul (jivataman ) to the universal soul (paramatman). I grant your point that all need not follow the eight steps - some may be born directly at the Samadhi stage, others may need Dharan, and Dhyan before finding Samadhi.

Did you mean yoga by excellence- Were you referring to the BG quote “Yogah Karmasu kaushalam” meaning Skill in action is Yoga ? If so , I would think it is more the attribute of a yogi who has reached the stage of Dharana or perhaps even Dhyana- he is so concentrated on whatever he does that he does it excellently - True Skill is effortless. I think that is what the stanza means.

Were you referring to something else- because you mention Kal yug also ?:confused:

Ravi

#570

‘Samarpan’ whether its 8 limbed yoga or bakthi yoga or jnana yoga…
‘Samarpan’ whether its in krita,treta, dwapara or kali…

#571

Yoga is from Hinduism no matter how people like to sugar coat it to appeal to Christianized Western masses.

#572

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;44842]Yoga is from Hinduism no matter how people like to sugar coat it to appeal to Christianized Western masses.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think Westerners, Chrisitans or otherwise, have a clue.

Who are those who are sugar coating it and in what way are they being misleading?

#573

There have been many people in this thread alone who have tried to make Yoga sound like it is a common heritage of all religions. They have claimed it is there in Sufism, in Christian Gnosticism, in Western occlultism/magic. Then add it is also there in Hinduism.

This is misleading because Yoga definitely is not in Sufism and Christian Gnositicism, these groups are inspired by Yoga historically, but they do not themselves remember when Yoga came to them. Yoga is not the common heritage of religions but the philosophy and practice of Hinduism and originated in India. It was first in Hindusm, then it was inherited by the Jains, Buddhists and then Sikhs. Today, it has been inherited by modern science.

Yoga is one of the greatest discoveries of humans. It is the only science in the world that can transform you. No other science comes close to Yoga. This is why it has carried down from 5000 years ago in India to 21st century modern world, in more or less the same form and is still benefiting humanity immensely.

#574

Yoga both as a practice, philosophy and a science outshines everything we have in the world. There is no personal development program anywhere in the world that is a match for Yoga. Yoga is a complete personal development program which integrates the mind, body and soul perfectly through moral, physical and mental training. It works exceeding well in doing what it promises to do. There are countless scientific studies to prove it.

There is no psychology or physics even at the very cutting edge that can explain how the mind works and how it interacts with matter. There is no cosmology so comprehensive that explains the origin of mind and matter and the causes. Yoga has science mastered down to the T. There is nothing that modern science has discovered, which was not already known in Yoga. Again, countless scientifc studies are proving everything that Yoga says. On the contrary, modern science is flummoxed by what it is discovering.

There is no philosophy in the entire history of philosophy in every part of the world both ancient and modern that is as rational, as analytical and precise as that of Yoga. All of modern philosophy looks like kindergarten stuff compared to Yoga. This the viewpoint of some of the greatest modern Western philosophers.

This is the contribution of Hinduism to the world. When it comes science, philosophy and spirituality we have trully excelled and there is no parallel to our greatness in these fields.
This is not to say that other religions and traditions are useless, they have excelled in their respective fields. Secular Humanism has excelled in developing technology(Hindus did not pay as much attention to material technology, except only to a functional level) giving us computers, electricity, nuclear energy, satellites, televisions etc. Christianity has excelled in producing saints and contributing to charity organizations.

Credit should be given where credit is due. This is the Hindu way. We do not deny credit where it is due, and likewise we expect to get credit where we have earned it.

#575

But that’s what they believed.

What motive would they have to intentionally mislead?

#576

Unfortunately, Hindus have had to fight to get recognition for their huge contributions to the world. Only last century was it finally accepted that Hindus invented the zero and place value decimal system, begrudingly. Then Hindu contributions to mathematics were gradually accepted, but still many things have not been corrected. It is not acknowledged in modern text books that the first heliocentric model of gravitation was proposed by Aryabhatta and not Newton, Galileo or even Copernicus. Nor is Pingala credited for discovering the so-called Fibbnonaci sequence, so-called pascals triangle and binary numbers and binary coeffcients. The Kerlea school of mathematicians who authored the first book on Calculus get no mention.

It is not acknowledged still in most modern text books that the first scietific medical systems and scientific theories of medicine, language, mechanics, logic and epistemology, metaphysics, drama, prosody, astronomy, economics and democracy were developed by the Hindus, not the Greeks. The Greeks are still credited as the the founders in these areas. In fact they were not founders, but inheritors.

The massive influence of Hindus and their place in history is also not acknowledged. The textbooks do not say that Hindus were the richest people on earth, with massive industry and had a 32.9% share of the worlds gdp from 1AD to 10AD. They had colonies all over the world, in Asia-pacific, South East India and Americas(they colonised America, before Christopher Colombus) We learn nothing about the hundreds of empires that have come and gone in India.

In fact on the contrary our history has been distorted and 10,000 years of our history sharnk ridiculously to 1000 years to suit Western bias. The great enlightened sages of our religion have been portrayed as nomads and savages and warring tribes.

Therefore it is no surprise why Hindus are growing to resent Westerners a lot. Western civilisation is denying us our great history and heritage and contributions. We have every reason to be annoyed and angry. Then when they deny us Yoga as well, then it simply takes the cake.

#577

Too true Surya.

Watch any documentary on the history of science in the West, and the East will get no mention.

In the West, the ‘history of the world’ is very much ‘the history of Europe and North America’.

However, on the point of yoga in other religions, I think it is not so clear cut. It is certainly possible that other religions have been influenced by Sanatana Dharma. SD is very old, and has witnessed the birth of every other religion. Travel was easier in the ancient world than was thought until recently. It seems easy to imagine SD influenced others.

But on the other hand, Sanatana Dharma is the purest expression of the nature of being, and is truly universal. Therefore it seems to me only natural that other religions would display some of the same ideas without a direct human-transmitted influence from SD.

I think the case is open, but it is not worth pursuing. If, say, Christian Gnosticism contains elements of yoga, to pursue an investigation of whether this is home-grown or inherited is really just vanity. Better to just accept and move on.

#578

Yoga originated from India, there is no doubt to that. If it originated from the Arya society is doubtful. I wonder how much in fact came from the Dravidian society. But what I am more interested in is what this question about Is Yoga Hinduism can actually bring? What is the intention behind it?
Some may have expressed frustrations about the Indian culture not getting the credit for its merits.
Is the Indian culture a person with feelings? No it is not.
So it appears these frustrations come forth from people who identify themselves with this culture and feel humiliated in some way by the lack of this credit.
Well, even if you originate from a culture, you were not the one who can claim the merits of that culture. You did not invent the notions of that culture.
Now let’s assume the people on this forum are genuine about their spiritual desire to attain kaivalya.
What good can come from an indulgence in attempt to claim credit for something? Is it not that this is a form of mental aparigrahah or greed? Is it not food for the darkest aspects of your Ego, Ahamkara? An indulgence in illusion?
So I ask again, what is the intention behind this thread and what positive outcome can be expected? What is the desired result?
To me the question of this thread appears just as dark as nationalism, which clearly did not bring anything but hatred among people.

Finally, please define Hinduism. Are Sikhs Hindus? Are Jains? Is only sanatana dharma Hinduism? Where does this term start and where does it end? Is it confined to the Indian subcontinent?

#579

[QUOTE=Awwware;44867]Yoga originated from India, there is no doubt to that. If it originated from the Arya society is doubtful. I wonder how much in fact came from the Dravidian society. But what I am more interested in is what this question about Is Yoga Hinduism can actually bring? What is the intention behind it?
Some may have expressed frustrations about the Indian culture not getting the credit for its merits.
Is the Indian culture a person with feelings? No it is not.
So it appears these frustrations come forth from people who identify themselves with this culture and feel humiliated in some way by the lack of this credit.
Well, even if you originate from a culture, you were not the one who can claim the merits of that culture. You did not invent the notions of that culture.
Now let’s assume the people on this forum are genuine about their spiritual desire to attain kaivalya.
What good can come from an indulgence in attempt to claim credit for something? Is it not that this is a form of mental aparigrahah or greed? Is it not food for the darkest aspects of your Ego, Ahamkara? An indulgence in illusion?
So I ask again, what is the intention behind this thread and what positive outcome can be expected? What is the desired result?
To me the question of this thread appears just as dark as nationalism, which clearly did not bring anything but hatred among people.

Finally, please define Hinduism. Are Sikhs Hindus? Are Jains? Is only sanatana dharma Hinduism? Where does this term start and where does it end? Is it confined to the Indian subcontinent?[/QUOTE]

I read the first 4 sentences of your post and this is what I have to say; stop subscribing to the racist, European devised, Aryan Invasion Theory. Second, as I and similar minded people have constantly said, spreading merits of a certain religion is a matter of attaining greater levels of tolerance, respect, and understanding among opposing religions. It is a matter of recognizing anti-Hindu Western propaganda for what it is and looking beyond it and into the beauty of that religion. It is a matter of giving credit where its due and not trying to uproot notions of that culture and incorporate it into your own without recognizing its source.

As a Westerner, I can understand why you are asking these questions. Your people have borrowed notions from other cultures/civilizations for so long and eventually caused yourself to rise in the world. And since you rose to the top, you had the opportunity to rewrite history to where its biased in favor of the Western world. Now you have blurred the accomplishments of those civilizations and those truly of your own to where one ascribes it all to the Western world simply because they see the greater degree of “civilization” in that hemisphere today. So it is not surprising you ask why it is important or what relevance it can possibly hold. To you, it does not matter; for those people who have been heavily misunderstood and trampled upon by Imperialistic Western nations, it is a matter of great importance in not making themselves look like the ignorant barbarians Westerners have made them out to be.

#580

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;44860]Unfortunately, Hindus have had to fight to get recognition for their huge contributions to the world. Only last century was it finally accepted that Hindus invented the zero and place value decimal system, begrudingly. Then Hindu contributions to mathematics were gradually accepted, but still many things have not been corrected. It is not acknowledged in modern text books that the first heliocentric model of gravitation was proposed by Aryabhatta and not Newton, Galileo or even Copernicus. Nor is Pingala credited for discovering the so-called Fibbnonaci sequence, so-called pascals triangle and binary numbers and binary coeffcients. The Kerlea school of mathematicians who authored the first book on Calculus get no mention.

It is not acknowledged still in most modern text books that the first scietific medical systems and scientific theories of medicine, language, mechanics, logic and epistemology, metaphysics, drama, prosody, astronomy, economics and democracy were developed by the Hindus, not the Greeks. The Greeks are still credited as the the founders in these areas. In fact they were not founders, but inheritors.

The massive influence of Hindus and their place in history is also not acknowledged. The textbooks do not say that Hindus were the richest people on earth, with massive industry and had a 32.9% share of the worlds gdp from 1AD to 10AD. They had colonies all over the world, in Asia-pacific, South East India and Americas(they colonised America, before Christopher Colombus) We learn nothing about the hundreds of empires that have come and gone in India.

In fact on the contrary our history has been distorted and 10,000 years of our history sharnk ridiculously to 1000 years to suit Western bias. The great enlightened sages of our religion have been portrayed as nomads and savages and warring tribes.

Therefore it is no surprise why Hindus are growing to resent Westerners a lot. Western civilisation is denying us our great history and heritage and contributions. We have every reason to be annoyed and angry. Then when they deny us Yoga as well, then it simply takes the cake.[/QUOTE]

I agreed with everything you had to say until the American colonization part. That is simply not true. No evidence (all biased history aside) points to any Indian oceangoing vessel that traveled that far. Most records indicate that the farthest they traveled up to was China and that was merely for trade. If you are thinking of those people that sailed from South East Asia and into the Pacific and beyond, they were ultimately more Chinese in origin that Indian. And colonization is such a harsh term; it makes it sound like India was some sort of Imperialistic aggressor, which it was not. I prefer to use the term “migration of Indian populations.” Even then, their influence in the regions you speak of (except Americas) was more religious, cultural, and ideological.

Other than that, your post will hopefully help members understand the relevance of this issue.