Is Yoga Hinduism?

Spirituality Religion
#961

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;50238]

[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;36803]Vedic period to which Yoga and Hinduism owe their origin, was a long stretch in history and quite distant from us today. Any investigative work we do today would naturally lead to fuzzy conclusions. Especially when the minds of the investgators are filled with anger about Yoga being called Hindu or not being so called is bound to leave some holes in their evidence born out of selective perception for the opponents to pounce on.

Some basic facts remain mostly accepted like Yoga came first and Hinduism followed. (Patanjali’s Yoga-Sutras do not mention Hinduism, yet there are many references to Yoga in the Hindu scriptures). As humanity progressed many great minds embraced and re-interpreted Yoga, a process that has been a hallmark of this universal philosophy. So, Hinduism remains a sibling of Yoga and both have very close idiom that must have historically influenced each other. There should be no problem in appreciating this. [/QUOTE]

This is what resonates with me Nietzsche and SD. I like Suhas’s term siblings.[/QUOTE]

As much as I admire Suhas, Suhas does not tell you accurate things about Hinduism, but rather his own interpretations. He recently posted in the thread in the main forum answering what the Yoga sutras mean, describing what samyama on the sun actually means the inner sun, samyama on the moon actually means the inner moon. Sometimes interpretations can give you key insights, but they often mean what they want you to mean and differ from the literal meaning of a text.

Hinduism did not come after the Vedas, it started with the Vedas. The word Hinduism is the English name for the Vedic religion. This is one of the synonyms used for Hinduism(Sanskrit: Sanatana dharma) The word dharma is used in the Vedas itself to describe its way. What way? The Yogic way. The first practice of Yoga can be traced to the Vedic period. So the religion of Hinduism and the philosophy and practice of Yoga come into being with the Vedas itself.

The Vedas are so important in Hinduism, that simply denying the Vedas is enough reason for you to get excommunicated out of the religion. Accepting the Vedas, meaning accepting the entire tradition of the Vedas. Denying the Vedas is denying the tradition.

I started a thread on Hinduism which will also offer some helpful information on Hinduism.

#962

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;50283]This is the catch. It’s practically impossible to be involved with any religion or spiritual practice that doesn’t fall under the “Hindu” umbrella, that doesn’t strongly resemble something that the Hindus have assimilated into their ridiculously massive net of beliefs. Deism, Theism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Animism, Shamanism, practically all forms of worship of countless different deities or higher powers, any conceivable spiritual practice, it’s all in there.
You describe your beliefs to any of these “Vedic Scholars” and they’re going to say “Oh, that obviously had it’s roots in the most ancient Indian practices.” BlahBlahBlah :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Kareng, don’t listen to him, he is lying. Hinduism does not assimilate every religion and spiritual practice. If that was true Buddhism and Jainism would be Hinduism.

The very first condition for a Hindu is to accept the Vedas as sruti(revealed text) and therefore the entire Vedic tradition and the doctrines of the Vedas. Therefore automatically this excludes Buddhism, Sikhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

I have described the doctrines in my Hinduism thread. I will briefly list them: Atman and Brahman, Dharma, Karma and samsara, samkhya.

New age religion accepts most of these doctrines. They accept for example the higher self(Atman) god as pure consciousness or ultimate reality(Braman) The need for remaining in harmony with the universe(dharma) The law of karma and the constant birth of the soul to evolve(karma and samsara) and the multiplaner view of reality of physical, astral and causal bodies, chakras, nadis and pranas(samkhya). In addition new-agers also accept the cycles of time(yugas) Some newagers also accept the notion of god-realised people(avatars) Most new-agers practice meditation(Yoga)

#963

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;50303]Kareng, don’t listen to him, he is lying. Hinduism does not assimilate every religion and spiritual practice. If that was true Buddhism and Jainism would be Hinduism… [/QUOTE]

Ah, & the lack-of-reading-comprehension specter rears it’s ugly head.

***& you’re terribly ignorant of the history of shramana movements (rejection of Vedic ritual), of which Yoga is a key member. All of the Vedic elements was added by Hindus when they tried to assimilate yogic teachings.
& suckers like you guys don’t get it. :rolleyes:

#964

The shramana movement is just an invention of colonial scholars to account for the discrepancies in their history of Hinduism. In order to explain the discrepancy between their intepretation of Vedic religion to nature gods and Yoga and tantra, they posit that a parallel movement existed called shramana that practiced Yoga and tantra, which the Vedic religion then incorporated. What evidence do they have for this? Zilch. Nada. Nill.

Colonial historians passed of their wild theories as facts and never cared to give any evidence or proof for them. The truth is Yoga can be traced to the Vedas itself and that is exactly what modern Yoga scholars say as well.

Go and educate yourself you anti-Hindu zealot.

#965

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;50317]The shramana movement is just an invention of colonial scholars to account for the discrepancies in their history of Hinduism. In order to explain the discrepancy between their intepretation of Vedic religion to nature gods and Yoga and tantra, they posit that a parallel movement existed called shramana that practiced Yoga and tantra, which the Vedic religion then incorporated. What evidence do they have for this? Zilch. Nada. Nill.

Colonial historians passed of their wild theories as facts and never cared to give any evidence or proof for them. The truth is Yoga can be traced to the Vedas itself and that is exactly what modern Yoga scholars say as well.

Go and educate yourself you anti-Hindu zealot.[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You guys are pathetic.

#966

[QUOTE=Indra Deva;50327]HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You guys are pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Go back to writing in pictures again Indra Deva, it makes you look cute. But as soon as you open that mouth of yours :wink:

#967

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;50329]Go back to writing in pictures again Indra Deva, it makes you look cute. But as soon as you open that mouth of yours ;)[/QUOTE]

“But as soon as you open that mouth of your” [I][B]what[/B][/I]?
It’s called a complete sentence, kid. :lol:

& you’re the cute one with the millions-of-years-old religion… :rolleyes:

#968

Thank you Ravi and SD for your explanations. And also thank you for the respectful and kind way in which both of you presented your views. And SD, I must say I am seeing a kinder, gentler side of you these days. It is part of the reason for me returning to the religion section. (aren’t you happy?!!!) Not all westerners or white people are filled with hatred or deliberately ignorant. Thank you both.

One thing I have noticed in reading through this thread, and actually many of the threads in the R section, is that even among Hindu’s there are many differing views. Much like the differing views in Christianity, Buddhism, etc. Without wanting to debate, the question is, “who is really right and who is wrong?” Each believes they are right based on the confines of their religion/faith. Doing a google search, or even reading different books about Hinduism (reputable ones) will net you very differing views.

So for me, right now, I will continue to be open, learn and respect these differing views. I would only hope others will follow this path, allowing for more sharing and better discussion.

#969

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;50346]Thank you Ravi and SD for your explanations. And also thank you for the respectful and kind way in which both of you presented your views…
So for me, right now, I will continue to be open, learn and respect these differing views. I would only hope others will follow this path, allowing for more sharing and better discussion.[/QUOTE]

You are most welcome. In the words of Voltaire, I may not agree with you , but I will defend to the death your right to hold your views. :stuck_out_tongue:

#970

[QUOTE=kareng;50288]Billy, I was only responding to the post clip that was sent by Indra Deva…it was very funny…have you upset Thomas, I didn’t know?[/QUOTE]

No, I haven’t upset Thomas. He must be on one of those business trips of his. He is a busy guy.

And yes, I thought the clip was quite funny myself.

#971

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;50289]And Nietzsche you should intend to do justice to Hinduism. Hinduism is too great a religion for you to go around calling people ignorant for sharing what they know. Most of the Hindu’s I know share the same opinion as me. And if they didn’t, they certainly would never be as disrespectful as you have been. That is where I got my information. First from my teacher Mr. Lakhia who was born and raised in India and is Hindu (Yoga teacher training) and other friends (who just happen to be Hindu)

There is really no reason for you to get all bent out of shape about this. I mean really!
You know there is absolutely no basis for you saying what you did to me. I never once came across disrespectful or hypocritical.

And BTW, dear, I am not Christian. And I have likely been practicing yoga longer than you have been here during this lifetime.

And now my discussion with you is over. I wish you nothing but love and happiness in your journey.[/QUOTE]

No. I intend to do justice to the truth. Historical fact. You going around and spreading lies about the chronology of Yoga and Hinduism is reminiscent of those Christian Eurocentrists who screwed up Indian history by introducing the AIT. I do not tolerate such misinformation lightly considering the damage that has been done by the latter case.

Some “Hindus” they must be. Sure, they may come from India and be Hindu but they sure are steeped in Westernized biases. No sensible person would ever say “Yoga predated Hinduism” simply because the word “Hinduism” was invented after the word “Yoga.” For the umpteenth time, you do realize we had our [B]OWN NAME FOR IT[/B]? Even then, it was a WAY OF LIFE, something you could put any name to depending on your circumstances and etc. It is from this tradition from which Yoga emerged. Once again, I strongly recommend you get a history book and start reading it ASAP. So what if the Persians/British put a name to something they couldn’t generalize? That doesn’t mean “Hinduism” as a religion was invented at that time; this kind of mistake is something only 5 year old children would make. If you cannot see the logical fallacy in that statement, then you truly have anti-Hindu sentiments.

Really? There is no need to get bent about this, when similar lies and misinformation has caused India to get divided along North-South lines? When similar lies have caused Indians to be ignorant about their history and believe that whites from the Caucuses gave them Hinduism and that they themselves were too barbaric and ignorant to invent anything? When sectionalist and separatist movements have arose because of South Indians believing North Indians have long oppressed them? Right. As I said, you have no idea how critical this matter is simply because you are not Indian and most importantly, a Westerner.

#972

@N,

You really do need to stop and breathe. Smell the roses while you’re at it. All of this anger is bad for you! Like I said, I have not spoken in a disrespectful or derogatory way to you in any of my posts. Your response is all I need to end this. Again, good luck on your journey.

#973

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;50378]And yes, I thought the gif was quite funny myself.[/QUOTE]

fixed that for ya, smart guy :rolleyes:

#974

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;50393]@N,

You really do need to stop and breathe. Smell the roses while you’re at it. All of this anger is bad for you! Like I said, I have not spoken in a disrespectful or derogatory way to you in any of my posts. Your response is all I need to end this. Again, good luck on your journey.[/QUOTE]

So it has been established, for the millionth time, that Yoga does not predate Hinduism. Another “debate” won. Check

#975

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;50404]So it has been established, for the millionth time, that Yoga does not predate Hinduism.[/QUOTE]

Hyperbole much? & Yes, IT DOES.

#976

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;50404]So it has been established, for the millionth time, that Yoga does not predate Hinduism. Another “debate” won. Check[/QUOTE]

Sorry…I missed that. When was that established again?

#977

[QUOTE=lotusgirl;50393]@N,

You really do need to stop and breathe. Smell the roses while you’re at it. All of this anger is bad for you! Like I said, I have not spoken in a disrespectful or derogatory way to you in any of my posts. Your response is all I need to end this. Again, good luck on your journey.[/QUOTE]

Billy like to ping the braces on his britches every now and then it seems Lotusgirl

#978

[QUOTE=FlexPenguin;50450]Sorry…I missed that. When was that established again?[/QUOTE]

Yeah Billy, when was that?

#979

[QUOTE=kareng;50700]Yeah Billy, when was that?[/QUOTE]

Ever since the 1st millenium B.C.E, thats when. Check it out! Take the opportunity to educated yourself (for the first time) and pick up a non-Eurocentric history textbook!

#980

[QUOTE=Nietzsche;50723]Ever since the 1st millenium B.C.E, thats when. Check it out! Take the opportunity to educated yourself (for the first time) and pick up a non-Eurocentric history textbook![/QUOTE]

Your a bit late Billy…your quest…but I don’t know why your worried about Hinduism disappearing for whatever reason…,how can it?

A persons spiritual lineage follows them around, it’s inside them, even if they are born a long way from the place. When you meditate, you come to know your source so if its Hinduism, you will recognise parts of it…if not all of it…in this way Hinduism cannot disappear or be tampered with…