I would say more Buddhist as it’s about cleaning the mind and being basic.
[QUOTE=sharmamunn;65053]Hi scales
You want to say that Hinduism is built on yoga and that is absolutely wrong, you know nothing about hinduism. Yoga is just a part of hinduism. There is nothing wrong to say that Yoga evolved from Hinduism. I am not saying that Yoga is property of hindus only but according to me you can atleast give respect to religion from which Yoga has been evolved.[/QUOTE]
veda is based on rishis ,do you mean hindu came first and vedic scripture after? i think it must have been other way around. in bhagavad gita krishna said he made guru-disciple lineage so that the truth would be preserved but after time truth got deluded .
So from this truth hinduism must have evolved. otherwise why would krishna made guru disciple linage?
also read this.
The Vedas are the eternal truths revealed by God to the great ancient Rishis of India. The word Rishi means a Seer, from dris, to see. He is the Mantra-Drashta, seer of Mantra or thought. The thought was not his own. The Rishis saw the truths or heard them. Therefore, the Vedas are what are heard (Sruti). The Rishi did not write. He did not create it out of his mind. He was the seer of thought which existed already. He was only the spiritual discoverer of the thought. He is not the inventor of the Veda.
Lord Brahma, the Creator, imparted the divine knowledge to the Rishis or Seers. The Rishis disseminated the knowledge. The Vedic Rishis were great realised persons who had direct intuitive perception of Brahman or the Truth. They were inspired writers. They built a simple, grand and perfect system of religion and philosophy from which the founders and teachers of all other religions have drawn their inspiration.
I understand you want to think yoga comes from hindusim cause that would make you more special
very interesting forum, great to read the different views
I studied for 2 years in India, and as far as I have been taught (by hindus), yoga does not evolve from hinduism, but from Vedanta… Bagavad Gita was written after the vedas and it was a way to make people to understand by epic battles the concepts explained in the vedas.
[QUOTE=twelvewizards;71910]I studied for 2 years in India, and as far as I have been taught (by hindus), yoga does not evolve from hinduism, but from Vedanta… Bagavad Gita was written after the vedas and it was a way to make people to understand by epic battles the concepts explained in the vedas.[/QUOTE]
The word Hinduism does not appear anywhere in Indian Scriptures. The word came when Mughals invaded India - it appears to have been coined to denote people residing by the river Sindhu (which later became Indus). The British also began to use it. The Indian way of life and spirituality was named “Sanatana Dharma”. Yoga as defined in the BG (which I would think largely mirrors Sanatana Dharma) is different from that as defined in Vedanta and in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.
So perhaps, we can make a beginning by defining what we mean by Yoga and then this debate would have ground to move on.
We need to open our minds far far wide to really appreciate this:
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first, give up the rigid idea that one can understand the awesome import of either Hinduism or Yoga based on one’s ‘opinions’
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Though Hinduism is labeled as a religion it is characteristically so secular that it hardly fits into our conventional definition of a modern religion
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Hinduism has a very heterogeneous composition making any two ‘views’ of it often paradoxical
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Hinduism has believers as well as non-believers, there is no single authority to dictate the practice or define the ideology
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Such a diversity is integral to Hinduism, and naturally, their tolerence of other religious ideas borders on welcoming them with open arms. In fact, Hindus are often seen worshipping at the shrines of other religions. Because they don’t define an individual as Hindu or non-Hindu, as others insist on doing for their religions.
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All the above makes Hindus easily dwell on 2 levels: practice their own belief system out of several within Hinduism and yet subscribe to a very generic, high level divine principle underlying all existence. That makes Hinduism unique and the world will be a better place if the rest follow the same spirit.
Coming to Yoga, one would only be ignoring history by denying that Hinduism is the biggest and most comprehensive sponsor of Yoga. Yoga has been practiced much earlier, but Hinduism has the same roots making Yoga absolutely congruent. Yoga’s universal appeal and Hinduism not being rigidly possessive, the latter day practitioners have freely experimented with Yoga, selectively adopted it, recklessly fused it with any other disciplines, ungratefully put their own name-tags on their hybrid creations and criminally commercialized a holy path.
But, when people also want to re-write history in order to legitimize their enterprise, that is amusing. There is no need. Yoga invites experimentation as the goal is self-realization. Yoga has survived for so long that it will not be constrained by any of the above. Please help yourself, Yoga is India’s gift to the mankind.
I believe yoga is just a way of life to a healthier you whether you believe in Hinduism or not. But it was taught throughout the religious text.
psycho-physiological manipulation and control.
call it what you want. the daoists practiced it too.
As do all "mystics"
No one group can monopolize this.
[QUOTE=Suhas Tambe;71912]We need to open our minds far far wide to really appreciate this:
-
first, give up the rigid idea that one can understand the awesome import of either Hinduism or Yoga based on one’s ‘opinions’
-
Though Hinduism is labeled as a religion it is characteristically so secular that it hardly fits into our conventional definition of a modern religion
-
Hinduism has a very heterogeneous composition making any two ‘views’ of it often paradoxical
-
Hinduism has believers as well as non-believers, there is no single authority to dictate the practice or define the ideology
-
Such a diversity is integral to Hinduism, and naturally, their tolerence of other religious ideas borders on welcoming them with open arms. In fact, Hindus are often seen worshipping at the shrines of other religions. Because they don’t define an individual as Hindu or non-Hindu, as others insist on doing for their religions.
-
All the above makes Hindus easily dwell on 2 levels: practice their own belief system out of several within Hinduism and yet subscribe to a very generic, high level divine principle underlying all existence. That makes Hinduism unique and the world will be a better place if the rest follow the same spirit.
Coming to Yoga, one would only be ignoring history by denying that Hinduism is the biggest and most comprehensive sponsor of Yoga. Yoga has been practiced much earlier, but Hinduism has the same roots making Yoga absolutely congruent. Yoga’s universal appeal and Hinduism not being rigidly possessive, the latter day practitioners have freely experimented with Yoga, selectively adopted it, recklessly fused it with any other disciplines, ungratefully put their own name-tags on their hybrid creations and criminally commercialized a holy path.
But, when people also want to re-write history in order to legitimize their enterprise, that is amusing. There is no need. [I]Yoga invites experimentation as the goal is self-realization.[/I] Yoga has survived for so long that it will not be constrained by any of the above. Please help yourself, Yoga is India’s gift to the mankind.[/QUOTE]
I liked what you wrote. It felt truthful and mostly free of the twinge of bias.
So are you self realized?
Yeah according to me yoga originated from Hinduism by the efforts of gurus. But it is for all human beings. It has no caste, anybody can do it.
[QUOTE=dennisselvon;77103]Yeah according to me yoga originated from Hinduism by the efforts of gurus. But it is for all human beings. It has no caste, anybody can do it.[/QUOTE]
such are the words of the buddha, and so many others.
Yoga is, for all who understand, the secret of life.
It is the means to knowledge. It is the taproot of all religions. It is the means to the tiresome end, and this end is but another begining. Siuch is the genius of GOD.
[QUOTE=The Scales;36060]Hinduism is built on the yoga.
Therefore my friend - Hinduism arose from yoga and not the other way around.
Meaning the entire religion sprung up from the knowledge gained through the practice of yoga, and by Yoga I mean internal yoga, and by internal yoga i specifically mean altered states of consciousness and deep meditation and single pointed concentration.
Yoga is not the province of Indians, it is the province of all.
These altered states and deep meditation are not the invention of some specific people. They are the potentiality of all sentient beings . . . in whatever universe across the breadth of infinite time.
Indians did not create this potentiality within sentient beings.
All the various shat karmas, Asanas, and kumbhakas are not required to reach altered states of consciousness and deep meditation. They are friendly supports, but not requirements.
[B]Undoubtedly the precious gurus in india made monumental contributions to the Art. But I highly doubt they would claim it as their own and the province of a specific people. [/B]
Yoga is not Hinduism.
All of the Blue Dudes, and Symbols, and sounds, arose from the yoga - which is the means to know.
[B]Hinduism is cultural.
Yoga is Universal. [/B]
On the Planet Quasar in the second Universe from the left, the quasarians discovered these same things.
The mantras are universal. Sound is universal. The secrets are hidden in plain view.
Ah La La.
How wonderful.[/QUOTE]
Nailed it! But in the year 2012 after thousands of years have passed we who are here now can see the two are not divisable yet if Hinduism and all the mistaken isms of man were to vanish today the truth of Yoga would still be present as long as a human form exists.
These in a human form would discover these truths likely through the very act of breathing first eventually they would give it a name perhaps call the practice Simon. Then a whole religion would grow around the practice of Simon called Bop- Ditty-Bop. Bop-Ditty-Bop would grow into a full blown ism religion.
Thousands of years would pass Simon would still be Simon but Bop-Ditty-Bop would have developed many new thing like the Cat Godess Bell with a litter Scoop in one Hand the other with Claws sprung Mouth wide open with tongue curled back symbolizing the Mudra we call kechari. The cat as a natural Hatha Yogi in our terms would be revered in that branch of Simon as the Divine Bop-Ditty of all poses, and symbolized Standing on a human demanding things be done for her.
I think we can all see where this is going…
The understanding that Yoga is Hinduism is not based on nationalism, rather it is based on the historical need to situate the development of Yoga correctly in into socio-philosophical context and appreciate and interpret it correctly. As Yoga cannot really be separated from its philosophy, spiritual and wider religious context. There are many concepts tied in with Yoga like the purusharthas and varnashrama dharma, Samkhya, Yoga and Vedanta, Vedas, and dharma in general that it cannot really be understood apart from.
Yoga is basically a system and the system is part of many interrelated parts that function together. It is not just a singular practice that we do, it is an entire life world, lifestyle, philosophy, religion and science. In the West the appreciation for systems(until the development of systems theory) has been lacking because of simplistic theories of causality. Hence in the West there never really has been a problem in compartmentalizing something and reducing it to its parts. This is why there has been no problem in separating some practices of Yoga from its wider system, but in doing so effectively Yoga has been destroyed, because it cannot function without the rest of the system.
New York Times has a report about this subject:
This report shows that this subject has more to do with nationalism than with spirituality.
Hinduism is hardly nationalism. Hinduism is a term coined after the invasion of the Moslem and English into India. The correct name is Sanatana Dharma which means “Universal Religion” Though religion is a very restricted translation for Dharma which is much larger and closer to “universal values”.
Yoga means “to join” and is thus a very much spiritual teaching. Enabling the individual soul to merge in the cosmic soul. (translations of atman and brahman-again not terribly accurate).This is the very core of “Vedanta” . The end of Knowledge. It is worthwhile noting that these teaching occur in the Upanishads part of the Vedas and the Upanishads do not talk about individual gods. But only about atman and brahman.
Fragmented teaching has resulted in the Asanas part of Yoga being taught separately and divorced from the rest of Raja Yoga. But for a true understanding and practice of the philosophy, it is necessary to understand Vedanta and Raja Yoga. This is India’s contribution to the world and any number of Deepak Chopras denying this is not going to change truth. We can of course choose not to accept it.
My own understanding of yoga is that it’s something like [B]a systematic approach for personal application of Dharma.[/B] As such it transcends Hinduism because it’s prominent in Tibetan Buddhism and the Tai Chi of Taoism seems like a form of what I would personally call yoga.
Dharma is supposed to denote the natural order of things prevalent in all of creation. Therefore I believe that yoga can be used by westerners but I dont think that someone that truly believes in “orthodox” christianity, judaism and islam can progress in yoga without eventually choosing between the “orthodox” view that (1) all that does not accept and comply to the specific “truths” (dogmas) prescribed by My tradition will suffer the maximum amount of pain and agony imaginable for eternity and (2) that all individuals have their inherent Nature .
It has Hindu roots, but then Hindusim is a diverse school, just as Christianity. Just as not all Christians believe in fate (as Calvinists do) or in Purgatory (Catholicism), Hindus may not even believe in God or His many manifestations (as per mainstream Hinduism Lord Shiva, Mother Lakshmi, etc.) It may be best to label it an offshoot of Hinduism as a physical/spiritual practice, but it’s not a religion.
Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma) is a Dharmic [I]religion[/I], and unless you belong to Advaita Vedanta sampradaya, usually requires the belief/worship in a deity/Ishwara (or more than one deity) according to Sruti. Also, the laws of Karma and Reincarnation must be believed in.
Yoga is a [I]part[/I] of Hinduism (according to Patanjali’s Sutras) and was ‘invented’ as a Hindu system, but there aren’t that many Hindus who actually practice Hatha Yoga or Raja Yoga…they concentrate on other forms of Yoga, like Bhakti and Jnana, which often end up in heated debates and arguments over who’s Sri God (Visnu or Siva) is the most powerful/predominate.
Yes, there are many schools of Hindu thought, but most concentrate on ripping other schools apart through philosophy (sorry for the bias, but I have had quite enough of this to turn me off Hinduism for a while).
I’m still a Tantrika (Kashmiri Trika School of Shaivism), however, I have decided to forget Hinduism for a while and just concentrate on Yoga and meditation.
So, in answer to the thread title ‘Is Yoga Hinduism?’ I reply by saying 'only if you [I]want[/I] it to be.
[QUOTE=Nobody;84959]
Yoga is a [I]part[/I] of Hinduism (according to Patanjali’s Sutras) and was ‘invented’ as a Hindu system, but there aren’t that many Hindus who actually practice Hatha Yoga or Raja Yoga…they concentrate on other forms of Yoga, like Bhakti and Jnana, which often end up in heated debates and arguments over who’s Sri God (Visnu or Siva) is the most powerful/predominate.
Yes, there are many schools of Hindu thought, but most concentrate on ripping other schools apart through philosophy (sorry for the bias, but I have had quite enough of this to turn me off Hinduism for a while).
.[/QUOTE]
According to Patanjali’s Yoga Sutra Yoga is - Yogah chittavrtti nirodhah and next sutra says tada drastuh svarupe avasthanam
According to sutra it means remove the modification of mind and than seer can see the self. it does not say the seer can see the god or Hinduism.
can any one explain is yoga is a religion or not ? please give some reference for your explanation not just your faith.
why not let Yoga be the Yog which the science of self rather than saying it is from Hinduism for the sake of truth and knowledge.
The great sage Patanajali and his eloquent sutras maybe the popular modern association of yoga, yet yoga is mentioned thousands upon thousands of years prior in the earliest recordings of Sanskrit writings, mentionable the Bhagavad Gita which is at least 5ooo years prior.
Yoga is more of a science than a religion and yet it is neither, it?s simply an attempt at skillful techniques and comprehensive methodologies derived from the ever expanding collective human consciousness, thousands of years human trial and error in an effort to bring oneself in union from that which they?ve never been separated, true inner nature.
?Through Yoga you have accumulated knowledge and experience. This cannot be denied. But of what use is it all to you? Yoga means union, joining. What have you re-united, re-joined?
Each seeker accepts, or invents, a method which suits him, applies it to himself with some earnestness and effort, obtains results according to his temperament and expectations, casts them into the mound of words, builds them into a system, establishes a tradition and begins to admit others into his ‘school of Yoga’. It is all built on memory and imagination. No such school is valueless, nor indispensable; in each one can progress up to the point, when all desire for progress must be abandoned to make further progress possible. Then all schools are given up, all effort ceases; in solitude and darkness the vast step is made which ends ignorance and fear forever.
The true teacher, however, will not imprison his disciple in a prescribed set of ideas, feelings and actions; on the contrary, he will show him patiently the need to be free from all ideas and set patterns of behavior, to be vigilant and earnest and go with life wherever it takes him, not to enjoy or suffer, but to understand and learn.? ~ Nisargadatta