[QUOTE=ray_killeen;72793][B]SPIRITUAL GENERAL WARNING: Conceptualizing the Indescribable Cause?s Exhaustion.[/B][/QUOTE]
does “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” apply here?
like you surya deva, I am intellectually oriented in all my pursuits. So I will say that what has helped me is reading western philosophy. you already “intellectually” understand an eastern perspective, which now seems to wiegh you down. give your mind something else with which to play with and strengthen its conceptual arsenal. you seem caught up in applying the eastern philosphy–which was created in the eastern tradition/language/thought structure–to what was already a very western way of life.
which is tough. start with your base, the west, then go east.
I don’t feel weighed down by my knowledge, I feel like the knowledge has really helped me develop conviction in spirituality, because I get it and understand it. It has helped me overcome my doubts: I have no doubts for instance that I am the soul(not the body) That my subtle body exists and transmigrates from body to body. The laws of karma and reincarnation. The existence of higher planes of reality. The infinite potential and powers of the mind. I have no doubts about the efficacy and the necessity of the spiritual path. For me these are not beliefs, I accept them as facts as I do any other fact. This is why this knowledge has been really helpful, not a burden.
I have studied Western philosophy. I have read all the texts you just mentioned and more so. No, I do not agree that Western philosophy is a few steps up, if anything it is many steps down compared to Eastern philosophy. In the Western tradition of philosophy I like Plato, Kant and Sartre. In general though Western philosophy does not reach the same level of sophistication in treating issues of ethics, metaphysics, mind and consciousness, the Eastern philosophical tradition has done much more useful work in this area. The area of Western philosophy where it strength lie are in science and technology(empirical and materialist philosophy)
and just from reading this whole thread, it seems that what people are trying to tell you is that you are attached to having all this knowledge. which you always respond with “YOU ALL(everyone else) are missing the point”
Nope, not everybody has been trying to tell me I am attached to my knowledge. No I do not respond to everybody they are missing the point. I am not attached to my knowledge. It is just a useful tool that has helped me understand spirituality
in not being smarter than you,
I have no idea what you are saying.
[QUOTE=hatcherc;72794]does “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” apply here?[/QUOTE]
There?s some irony going on here
This Forum lends itself to Jnana, that?s what you get when you come here; an important aspect in the spiritual is desire, something I don?t doubt Surya utilizes in all avenues of his spiritual quest.
[QUOTE=ray_killeen;72800]There?s some irony going on here[/QUOTE]
^this to me could mean many things.
i absolutely agree with your initial comment that “conceptualization leads to exhaustion”.
I suppose i’m wondering whether such “conceptualization”, acknowledging that it is exhausting, would lead one to a point exhaustion–a breaking point, of sorts–where this ‘exhaustion’ can only lead to revised, less exhaustive, tactic?
and surya, when i said “start with your base, then go east”, i was implying that the Western tradition is less sophisticated (being obtuse in its spiritual sense.)…my logic being, that one should start with what comes easy/natural, then tackle the more difficult, or subtle.
i’m not sure whether it was asked for a list of the things for which you have no doubt…
I stand corrected Hatcherc.
I find that reading Western philosophy actually produces a lot of confusion than any clarity. In fact this is something Western philosophy is famous for, it is said that studying Western philosophy leads to people coming out confused, with no clear answers on any philosophical issue or topic. This is very different to Eastern philosophy, which leads to clarity and very clear and definite practical solutions.
The reason I gave you a list of thing of which I have no doubt is to show you these many remarkable conclusions which most people would dismiss as beliefs, are for me indubitable facts and this intellectual conviction comes from my reading of Eastern philosophy. I have no doubts at all on it, because it is not a belief for me. Eastern philosophy uses a method of philosophical analysis which is more closer to Western science than it is Western philosophy, in that it based on epistemology(valid means of knowledge) starting with percetion/observation. This is why its conclusions are logical and rational, because it derives it using valid means. In the same way the conclusions of science are logical and rational, because they are derived using valid means(starting with perception)
In the same way science derives the reality of atoms, gravity, blackholes, Eastern philosophy derives the reality of reincarnation, karma, souls, other planes of reality, liberation etc
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;72386]
I am the way, the light and the truth, there is no way to god except through me" in deeply religious societies. Jesus would not have been treated any less differently if he went to modern day Iran or Saudi Arabia and said the same.
There is a kernel of truth in the statement, “I am the way, light and truth” in that it mirrors the statement, “I am Brahman” or the Sufi equivalent, “I am the truth” or the modern equivalent, “I am the universe” because it is true absolutely, but it is not true currently for us. [/QUOTE]
[I]I am the way the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father except through me. [/I]
[B]I am the way.[/B]
His life, attiitudes, and teachings as told in the Gospels provides a perfect pattern of living for mortal man. His “way” or pattern easily leads to “eternal life.” “My yoke is easy my burden is light.” The essence of this easy burden is love.
[B] the truth[/B]
The Lord is the Truth in that he is who he said he is.
[B] and the life [/B]
He is the life for one because of his example, his pattern for living - which is easy and leads to “everlasting life.”
He is the life for two because he is the alpha and the Omega. The begining and the end. He created this playground, and when it’s time he will end it.
He is the Life for three because this particular super universe is enveloped by the body of christ. Indian word for this aspect of reality is Hiranyagarbha or [I]the universal subtle body[/I]. His universal subtle body envelops the entirety of this super universe. From the lowest hells, to the material planes to the various “heavens” associated with this universe - The Lord Envelops it all. Or it is all in him. Paradoxically this universe is also “within us” and you can, if you go inside and know how to “fly” - learn all about it.
For as he said “seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and all shall be added unto you.” Where is this kingdom of heaven? “the kindgom of heaven is within you.” But sadly so many of us just gloss over this teaching and look for our heaven elsewhere.
[B]No one gets to the Father except through me[/B]
The Lord is the final gatekeeper of this super universe, you need his blessing to move on past him - inwards back towards the Father. So no one gets to the Father except through he.
Shiva and shakti.
epitome of Shiva=awareness
Epitome of shakti=sexual fluid
When she meets
him above. Life is renewed. You let “yourself” go. Intoxicated with the joy of their meeting. You desire nothing.when you do, it is dissolved. Dissolved by joy. What a wonder it is.to be the temple of the spirit.the understanding is simple.
How does one get their. Now isn’t that the question we all discuss and argue. Being an avatar of thought, thoughts will not get you their. Only doing. Let your actions lead you down the path that renews life literally and drags u to thoughtlessness. In the darkest times, only the method of transforming darkness into light can save everybody.
The Urantia Book
Paper 34
The Local Universe Mother Spirit
(374.1) 34:0.1 WHEN a Creator Son is personalized by the Universal Father and the Eternal Son, then does the Infinite Spirit individualize a new and unique representation of himself to accompany this Creator Son to the realms of space, there to be his companion, first, in physical organization and, later, in creation and ministry to the creatures of the newly projected universe.
(374.2) 34:0.2 A Creative Spirit reacts to both physical and spiritual realities; so does a Creator Son; and thus are they co-ordinate and associate in the administration of a local universe of time and space.
(374.3) 34:0.3 These Daughter Spirits are of the essence of the Infinite Spirit, but they cannot function in the work of physical creation and spiritual ministry simultaneously. In physical creation the Universe Son provides the pattern while the Universe Spirit initiates the materialization of physical realities. The Son operates in the power designs, but the Spirit transforms these energy creations into physical substances. Although it is somewhat difficult to portray this early universe presence of the Infinite Spirit as a person, nevertheless, to the Creator Son the Spirit associate is personal and has always functioned as a distinct individual.
- Personalization of the Creative Spirit
(374.4) 34:1.1 After the completion of the physical organization of a starry and planetary cluster and the establishment of the energy circuits by the superuniverse power centers, subsequent to this preliminary work of creation by the agencies of the Infinite Spirit, operating through, and under the direction of, his local universe creative focalization, there goes forth the proclamation of the Michael Son that life is next to be projected in the newly organized universe. Upon the Paradise recognition of this declaration of intention, there occurs a reaction of approval in the Paradise Trinity, followed by the disappearance in the spiritual shining of the Deities of the Master Spirit in whose superuniverse this new creation is organizing. Meanwhile the other Master Spirits draw near this central lodgment of the Paradise Deities, and subsequently, when the Deity-embraced Master Spirit emerges to the recognition of his fellows, there occurs what is known as a ?primary eruption.? This is a tremendous spiritual flash, a phenomenon clearly discernible as far away as the headquarters of the superuniverse concerned; and simultaneously with this little-understood Trinity manifestation there occurs a marked change in the nature of the creative spirit presence and power of the Infinite Spirit resident in the local universe concerned. In response to these Paradise phenomena there immediately personalizes, in the very presence of the Creator Son, a new personal representation of the Infinite Spirit. This is the Divine Minister. The individualized Creative Spirit helper of the Creator Son has become his personal creative associate, the local universe Mother Spirit."
“do you see the Seeva and Shakti?”
Yes I see the Siva sakti.
Though seperation of “physical” from everything else is nonsense. The milk can be thin or thick. The thick milk is not seperate from the thin. They are joined for.both are from milk. Thus one can effect the other. Just as the dense reality we call physical and the thin we attribute to being the spiritual.
Anyway. Had to say it. 
[quote=avatar186;75540]yes i see the siva sakti.
Though seperation of “physical” from everything else is nonsense. The milk can be thin or thick. The thick milk is not seperate from the thin. They are joined for.both are from milk. Thus one can effect the other. Just as the dense reality we call physical and the thin we attribute to being the spiritual.
Anyway. Had to say it. :)[/quote]
u. N. I. T. Y and individuality apparently. Oh it’s all a paradox!
Not a paradox! Perfect balance! The Yin/Yang is a balance and counter balance contained by the one!
It takes 5 pieces to make 1 perfect balance.
How can the Jnana arise without Yoga? This I do not know.
Jnana=mind
Bhakti=heart
Hatha=body
mind
Prana
Semen
They influence eachother. Its said if you master one you master the rest.
they are one path not 3.
Mind,heart,and sexual center are connected.
Mind is thought earth.
Mind=that used to fixate.
Heart regulates mind and sexual center,it is the junction box and the jewl.
Breathing AND breath energy come out of the heart. Like a water comes out of a fountian.
Because the heart control breathing,we can Control the heart.
To crystallized breathing energy at the heart center.
Fixate the mind on the heart, for Prana follows the mind.
Then circulate the breathing and create breath energy.
The reason breathing needs to be silent. Is because,when breathing is rough, it causes the heart to enter into the breathing IE the heart begins to pump harder.
Which causes the breath energy to disperse, thus it cannot crystalize or become fixed.
It says circulate long enough. And fixation happens on its own.
Meaning all you must do. Is first fix the mind to the heart. Then breath make the breathing rhythmical and consistant.if the breathing is rhythmical and consistant, heart and breathing automatically synch up. Then all that is left to do, is to do it for a period of time,letting the breathing become silent.
That is my take on the Taoist method discribed in the golden flower book.
Breath energy is truly the hardest thing to figure out. And I have discribed breath energy twice on these forums.
When you sneeze, the tingle you feel, that is the manifestation of breath energy.
Pranayam is not the crude breath! But can be had by control of the crude breath.
do not take this insight for truth! It could be another fallacy. I shall practise and give results. But the joy of insights often overflows causing me to speak. A habit which will not always exist.
Chitta = Mind.
Jnana = Gnosis, Prajna, Wisdom. Spiritual insight.
I meditated on my heart, using mental absorption on the feeling located at the heart for a while one session - and for a week I couldn’t catch my breath.
Thats not to say there aren’t several ways to do it without the danger… which are the right ways.
Ah yes! That’s why the emphasis on making the breathing silent and light! For when the breathing is light the heart becomes light. When the breathing is heavy the heart is heavy. Focusing their the energy was concentrated, but not made light. That is my assumption of what may have happened. The mind was fixed, but the breathing was not made light, so the heart did not become light. But! That is my assumption.
I have found it difficult to get the vibrating breath energy to enter the heart. Now I am also a busy person. So my practise is one of taking care of obligations around me, and practising/contemplating every moment I can’t. "Easyer to contemplate than practise"
So I need more practise more.
But.
in failing I have seen that in the center. From sexual organ to solar plexus,right up to the split of the ribs. It is like a pole,solar plexus being a ball. That all the breath energy wants to move around it.I have penatrated it before. It came up the pole, and rested at the heart. Magnetic wise. The heart is the polar star. All stars move around it. The mind is another pole. Haha. Anyway found it interesting and wanted to enliven the conversation.