Killing: A means to stop violence rather than escalate it?

[CENTER][B]Osama bin Laden is dead. One Buddhist?s response.[/B]

[I][I]by[/I] Susan Priver[/I]
[I](click for the link to the original post)[/I]

[/CENTER]

?In the Shambhala warrior tradition, we say you should only have to kill
an enemy once every thousand years.? ?Chogyam Trungpa

So, Osama bin Laden is dead. We killed him. There really was no choice. We were clearly in an ?us or them? situation and if we didn?t kill him, he was going to continue to do everything in his power to kill us.

As Buddhists, we are supposed to abhor all killing, but what do you do when someone is trying to kill you? Obviously great theologians have pondered this question for millennia and I?m not going to try to pile on with my point of view, which would be totally useless.

Instead, I?ll pose this question: How do you kill your enemy in a way that puts a stop to violence rather than escalates it?

Strangely, I keep coming back to the same rather ordinary conclusion: the answer is in our ability to face our emotions. When we know how to relate to our anger, hatred, despair, and frustration fully and properly, they self-liberate. When we don?t, when we can?t tolerate them and therefore act them out, we create enormous sorrow and confusion.
Look at your own reaction this morning.

Was there even a hint of vengefulness or gladness at Osama bin Laden?s death? If so, that is a real problem. Whatever suffering he may have experienced cannot reverse even one moment of the suffering he caused. If you believe his death is a form of compensation, you are deluded.
There has been an outpouring of misdirected jubilation, as if a contest had been won. Nothing has been won. Unlike winning a sporting event, this doesn?t mean that our team has triumphed. Far from it. There is only one team and it is us. When those of us (especially our leaders) who now foment violence choose instead to try to create peace, then we will truly have cause for celebration.

One of us is gone, one apparently horrific, terrible, vicious one of us?is gone. I don?t feel regret for him or about this. I?m regretful for the rest of us who are now left thinking that this is a cause for celebration. It is not. It is a cause for sorrow at our continued inability to realize that there is no such thing as us and them; that whatever we do to cause harm to one will harm us all.

When we hate, we cause hate. When we think we have won by vanquishing our enemy, we have lost. In killing Osama bin Laden, ?they? lose because one of their leaders is gone. But we lose too, because we have deepened the causes and conditions that lead to more hatred and its consequences. This is not over.

Then, what to do? I don?t really know, but for me, rather than cheering on this day, I?m going to rededicate myself to the idea of brotherhood towards all, even those that want me dead?and not because I?m some kind of really good person. I?m not. Because I know it?s the only way to stay alive?in the only kind of world I want to inhabit.

Perhaps the way to kill your enemy as a way of putting a stop to violence rather than escalating is to shift our view of ?enemy? altogether. Our enemy is not one person or country or belief system. It is our unwillingness to feel the sorrow of others?who are none other than us.
So take aim at this enemy completely and precisely. Feel your sadness for us and them so fully and completely that all boundaries are dissolved and we are left standing face to face, human to human, each feeling the other?s rage and despair as our own, one world to care for.

If you?d like to try to generate such a switch, please try loving kindness meditation. Here is audio instruction in the practice.

??when you do not produce another force of hatred, the opposing force collapses.?[B]? Chogyam Trungpa

[/B][LEFT]

With great respect and love,
Nichole
[/LEFT]

Fragging Bing laden = Righteous Action.

You will not convince me other wise.

I agree 100% with this article! I even posted something on facebook with the same point today in response to a lot of the comments I have been seeing on there.

Thank you for posting this, Nichole. It is very well written and expresses many good points.

I agree. Although Osama was the very definition of what is so called evil,his death is at one side, right but certainly no cause for self righteous indignation. A madman, yes. Hopefully we will be safer with him not in this word ;but a death none the less. How shameful that some people just can’t see the whole picture. That many more will follw in his footsteps is almost a certainty.

What do we do??? Kill everyone? Yes we MUST protect ourselves. He had to go.
Where does it stop? I hope this is the last.

[QUOTE=anandasunshine;59717]A madman, yes.[/QUOTE]
We’ve spent over a trillion dollars on the war on terror and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people while bankrupting our own country. All the while we can’t trust our own food supply, water supply, air supply, and housing, the most basic aspects of life.

I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge what insanity is at this point.

Looks like me and the Lama got an understanding…it aint’ all just puppy dogs and rainbows of love down here.

[B]Dalai Lama suggests Osama bin Laden’s death was justified[/B]

[I]Speaking at USC, the Buddhist spiritual leader says of the Al Qaeda chief’s assassination: ‘Forgiveness doesn’t mean forget what happened.’[/I]

By Mitchell Landsberg, Los Angeles Times
May 4, 2011
As the leader of Tibetan Buddhism, the 14th Dalai Lama says he practices compassion to such an extent that he tries to avoid swatting mosquitoes “when my mood is good and there is no danger of malaria,” sometimes watching with interest as they swell with his blood.

Yet, in an appearance Tuesday at USC, he appeared to suggest that the United States was justified in killing Osama bin Laden.

As a human being, Bin Laden may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness, the Dalai Lama said in answer to a question about the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader. But, he said, “Forgiveness doesn’t mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures.”

Please click here for the REST of the story . . .

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story

[QUOTE=David;59718]We’ve spent over a trillion dollars on the war on terror and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people while bankrupting our own country. All the while we can’t trust our own food supply, water supply, air supply, and housing, the most basic aspects of life.

I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge what insanity is at this point.[/QUOTE]

Historically this type of effort of fighting fire with fire seems to fuel bigger fires and more of them, you are correct since insanity is repeating the same thing but expecting different results.

I have an aversion to that quote for that is not the definition of insanity.

First its impossible to do the same thing over and over.

Then the definition is off.

insanity |inˈsanitē|
noun
the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness : he suffered from bouts of insanity | [as complement ] he attempted to plead insanity.
• extreme foolishness or irrationality : it might be pure insanity to take this loan | the insanities of our time.

So by the very definiton of the word that cliche quote is insanity.

:cool:

[QUOTE=The Scales;59805]I have an aversion to that quote for that is not the definition of insanity.

First its impossible to do the same thing over and over.

Then the definition is off.

insanity |inˈsanitē|
noun
the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness : he suffered from bouts of insanity | [as complement ] he attempted to plead insanity.
• extreme foolishness or irrationality : it might be pure insanity to take this loan | the insanities of our time.

So by the very definiton of the word that cliche quote is insanity.

:cool:[/QUOTE]

Scanning the internet it appears you are correct, I guess the word I was looking for is worse.

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

I must have been influenced by what Albert Einstein once said; “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

Also note I have no opinion on this subject which may be worse than having one +/ – or somewhere in between? As is.

[QUOTE=ray_killeen;59807]Scanning the internet it appears you are correct, I guess the word I was looking for is worse.

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

I must have been influenced by what Albert Einstein once said; “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

Also note I have no opinion on this subject which may be worse than having one +/ ? or somewhere in between? As is.[/QUOTE]

See you on the Battlefield soldier.
:smile:

• Suryadaya: You are welcome. I am glad that you appreciated it too.

• Thank you all for sharing in this thread. I was hoping that the original post sparked some discussion on what was shared.

Instead, I’ll pose this question: How do you kill your enemy in a way that puts a stop to violence rather than escalates it?

Strangely, I keep coming back to the same rather ordinary conclusion: the answer is in our ability to face our emotions. When we know how to relate to our anger, hatred, despair, and frustration fully and properly, they self-liberate. When we don’t, when we can’t tolerate them and therefore act them out, we create enormous sorrow and confusion.
This piece of her post deeply impacted me, as I am also in personal practice with the tolerance of and the hopeful and eventual liberation from my own hate, anger and fear that causes me to rise up against myself and others, both in seemingly small ways and more obvious ways too. I practice, I practice, I practice.

[QUOTE=The Scales;59692]Fragging Bing laden = Righteous Action[/QUOTE]

i think that this is inline with the author of the original post of this thread, and with the Dalai Lama’s sentiments in the article that you shared too. indeed, you keep good company! and thank goodness that they have shared their thoughts with us; i’ve really appreciated their clarity of mind.

[QUOTE=The Scales;59692]You will not convince me other wise.[/QUOTE]
i am unsure whom you meant when you said “You.” were you speaking to a general “You”? or specifically to me or the author? would you clear that up for me?

[QUOTE=The Scales;59813]See you on the Battlefield soldier.
:smile:[/QUOTE]

Many have tested my skills; I quite enjoy it, however you need to give me no alternative before I’ll engage with no limits. Otherwise a controlled rumble always interests me.

All I have to say has already been said

I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure – Mark Twain

[QUOTE=David;59718]We’ve spent over a trillion dollars on the war on terror and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people while bankrupting our own country. All the while we can’t trust our own food supply, water supply, air supply, and housing, the most basic aspects of life.

I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge what insanity is at this point.[/QUOTE]

Well said! Can you imagine if all of the countires and people we have brought hundreds of death too because of our countries hidden agendas wanted to retaliate on us?

Nichole.

“you” as in anyone.

You make a very good point David. I for one still think he was a little more insane than the average. It seems as if “insanity” knows no boundaries but I am glad he no longer is in this world.

Great!!! Well said>

[QUOTE=The Scales;59863]Nichole.

“you” as in anyone.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your reply and for posting the interview with the Dalai Lama too.

[QUOTE=David;59718]We’ve spent over a trillion dollars on the war on terror and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people while bankrupting our own country. All the while we can’t trust our own food supply, water supply, air supply, and housing, the most basic aspects of life.

I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge what insanity is at this point.[/QUOTE]

We might think that those trillion dollars were all spend against terrorism, but the USA has sponsered Pakistan with billions to fight Bin Laden, meanwhile Pakistan has been given shelter to countless terrorist organisations and Osama has been living in luxary a stone throw away from the center of pakistan. This is not really about terrorism, the USA needs pakistan to controll the areas where they can get oil.